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Babcock: Improvement to come from within


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#21 Vladifan

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:01 PM

I'm not ignoring reality. Flip is a very good player, but he doesn't provide what we need. We need scoring, and since he's good, we could get a good scorer for him. Flip will never be better than he is now, and while he can get points, he just isn't a consistently impressive player. He's a 2nd and 3rd line tweener. But again, he's good, but that just means we can get something good for him. He's just not what we need right now, we need someone with a nose for the net.


I'm not sure I agree that Flip is a tweener. I still think he has great potential and I think it was evident during the playoffs. But even if it were true, what team is going to give up a good scorer for him?

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#22 redwingfan19

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:03 PM

I'm not sure I agree that Flip is a tweener. I still think he has great potential and I think it was evident during the playoffs. But even if it were true, what team is going to give up a good scorer for him?



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#23 ben_usmc

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:14 PM

i keep saying this and i'll say again, Lidstrom's discount won't be much. i will be stunned if he gets less than $5million. i think he will get $6 million

I have to admit that kind of pisses me off that Nik said money will be a factor. I mean I can understand why he still wants to get paid like a baller, because let's face it he still his one of the best. But come on man I wouldn't have expected him to say money was a factor :(, 5 sounds about right....
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#24 redwingfan19

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:20 PM

I have to admit that kind of pisses me off that Nik said money will be a factor. I mean I can understand why he still wants to get paid like a baller, because let's face it he still his one of the best. But come on man I wouldn't have expected him to say money was a factor :(, 5 sounds about right....


no way lidstrom makes less than rafalski. If he comes back I expect it to be around 6-6.5M
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#25 gcom007

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:27 PM

Good call. Nevermind his 7 points (4 of those being goals) in 9 games in the playoffs and his 8 point/3 game streak in the midst of having 27 points in 33 games all the while have a career season in points per game. Let's ignore the reality and demand a trade for Filppula.




This news sucks. We need someone new in our top 6. Period.


That 4th goal was a real showcase of his talent...

I'm not saying he played poorly at all, but his playoff performance was demonstrative of his offensive inconsistency. He had a strong 1st round, especially games 2 and 3, but what did he do in the San Jose series? 2 points in 5 games, a goal and an assist, and the goal was a result of San Jose putting the puck in their own net! He didn't even take a shot!

Your "8 point/3 game streak" comment hit the nail on the head in my mind. He's been known to be streaky offensively, and despite a strong finish to the regular season, the streaky side was more evident in the playoffs despite a solid effort. Again, I can't stress it enough, I'm not saying he's worthless by any means, but I'm still not at all ready to hype up his offensive potential.

That doesn't mean we should just trade him for the hell of it or anything either, but like some have said, it concerns me that every year we're expecting him to make a big step and every year something inevitably comes up to stifle said "big step." It just seems fairly logical to me that sooner or later you'd stop hoping he'll come up big on offense and work on bringing guys in that specialize in offense. If he's going to stay with the team, let him do what comes more naturally to him. He provides a better service to the team by putting him in a role that is more suited for him. I'm still not convinced that that role is a heavily offensive-oriented one by a long-shot.

It'll be good to have Hudler back though. He's a hack on defense, but he knows how to score. I don't expect him to be the answer to all of our problems and I don't hold him in nearly as high of a regard as some, but it'll certainly be good to have another guy specializing in offense back. He produced as much or more than anyone one the team proportional to ice time, so if he can come in and put up point totals that come even close to his '08/'09 numbers with similar ice time, it'll be a huge plus for this team.
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#26 HankthaTank

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:34 PM

Frustrating thing about Val is that he can just make some unreal plays in traffic while fending off like 3 defenders. And then he can just all out sloppy as hell. I do believe we have to at least give him this last year and if this becomes another year like this one then you just may have to part ways. As for Nick I agree with the guy above here...Raffi making 6? Nick won't take less...its the sad truth of it all. No way was he going to come back for what Stevie(Jesus in skates) took. Good riddance Jason Williams go score 20 for the Oshawa Generals just get out of here. Huds is a big addition to get back for sure but we need another big D man. This can't be overlooked!
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#27 LeftWinger

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:34 PM

ya no surise at all really here, I think we all knew the only way we would be a part in any blockbuser would be if Lids hung em up. I Know Flip will have his year this year as well, but Id like to see him with Bert(if he is here) and Franzen, Zetterberg with Datsyuk and Hudler/Holmer/Clears (but mostly Huds). I also think we have a GREAT year ahead of us :siren: so enjoy your summer kids.

:blink: So you're actually saying that Hudler, a player who couldn't even make his national team for the Olympics, should be on our number 1 line? :hysterical: I cannot wait for the season to start so I can get back on bashing Hudler night in and night out. I can only hope Holland trades him at the draft.

Back to the OP, this, if true, is seriously BAD and disheartening news. This team as it is, even with adding Hudler, still will falter defensively. If Lidstrom comes back and sucks up most of our cap, and then we lose Meech, Lebda, Lilja and gain Kindl? Our defense gets worse. Lidstrom HAS to come back for no more than $4.5M in order for us to be able to better our team. You gotta convince Rafalski to waive his no trade in order to free up space if Lids is gonna get $6M or more. Trade him to LA for Johnson, sign Lids for $4.5M offer Willie Mitchell a contract, then bring up Kindl.

Lids - Mitchell
Kronwall - Stuart
Johnson - Ericsson
Kindl

But sadly our defense in gonna be worse than last season, with Kindl up in Lilja's spot and yet an even less experienced player for our seventh.

But hey, instead of getting a ligit top 6 forward, we're getting Hudler back!

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#28 HankthaTank

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:39 PM

Posted Image So you're actually saying that Hudler, a player who couldn't even make his national team for the Olympics, should be on our number 1 line? Posted Image I cannot wait for the season to start so I can get back on bashing Hudler night in and night out. I can only hope Holland trades him at the draft.

Back to the OP, this, if true, is seriously BAD and disheartening news. This team as it is, even with adding Hudler, still will falter defensively. If Lidstrom comes back and sucks up most of our cap, and then we lose Meech, Lebda, Lilja and gain Kindl? Our defense gets worse. Lidstrom HAS to come back for no more than $4.5M in order for us to be able to better our team. You gotta convince Rafalski to waive his no trade in order to free up space if Lids is gonna get $6M or more. Trade him to LA for Johnson, sign Lids for $4.5M offer Willie Mitchell a contract, then bring up Kindl.

Lids - Mitchell
Kronwall - Stuart
Johnson - Ericsson
Kindl

But sadly our defense in gonna be worse than last season, with Kindl up in Lilja's spot and yet an even less experienced player for our seventh.

But hey, instead of getting a ligit top 6 forward, we're getting Hudler back!



This sounds good in theory...but explain that if we got Jack Johnson how he is put on the 3rd pairing???? Posted Image
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#29 LeftWinger

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:47 PM

This sounds good in theory...but explain that if we got Jack Johnson how he is put on the 3rd pairing???? Posted Image

That would be a nice problem to have eh? I was just giving Mitchell some senority rights and not splitting up Kronner/Stuart. Babs can put them however he wants, but that lineup looks much better defensively than Kindl/Rafalski & Smith being here...

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#30 HankthaTank

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:50 PM

That would be a nice problem to have eh? I was just giving Mitchell some senority rights and not splitting up Kronner/Stuart. Babs can put them however he wants, but that lineup looks much better defensively than Kindl/Rafalski & Smith being here...



I am all up for any suggestions with the blue line...that is absolutely positively the area of attention this off season even with Nick coming back. But again I am a blogger on a site we will see what Kenny has for us.
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#31 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:54 PM

*facepalm*

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#32 dat's sick

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:54 PM

Man, I'm so disappointed that they're not planning to completely blow up the team because we only made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and lost against the 2nd best team in the league. Obviously we need to change a lot of things if we can't make the SCF 3 years in a row.

#33 F.Michael

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:55 PM

Are they going to develop Lebda and Williams into elite players?

I hope Babcock is just full of it.

Rumor has it that McCrimmon is gonna be canned in favor of Lilja, and by doing so both Meech/Lebda will become Lilja's padawans, and will learn the ways of "The Pain Train".

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#34 Z and D for the C

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 02:25 PM

That 4th goal was a real showcase of his talent...

I'm not saying he played poorly at all, but his playoff performance was demonstrative of his offensive inconsistency. He had a strong 1st round, especially games 2 and 3, but what did he do in the San Jose series? 2 points in 5 games, a goal and an assist, and the goal was a result of San Jose putting the puck in their own net! He didn't even take a shot!

Your "8 point/3 game streak" comment hit the nail on the head in my mind. He's been known to be streaky offensively, and despite a strong finish to the regular season, the streaky side was more evident in the playoffs despite a solid effort. Again, I can't stress it enough, I'm not saying he's worthless by any means, but I'm still not at all ready to hype up his offensive potential.

That doesn't mean we should just trade him for the hell of it or anything either, but like some have said, it concerns me that every year we're expecting him to make a big step and every year something inevitably comes up to stifle said "big step." It just seems fairly logical to me that sooner or later you'd stop hoping he'll come up big on offense and work on bringing guys in that specialize in offense. If he's going to stay with the team, let him do what comes more naturally to him. He provides a better service to the team by putting him in a role that is more suited for him. I'm still not convinced that that role is a heavily offensive-oriented one by a long-shot.

It'll be good to have Hudler back though. He's a hack on defense, but he knows how to score. I don't expect him to be the answer to all of our problems and I don't hold him in nearly as high of a regard as some, but it'll certainly be good to have another guy specializing in offense back. He produced as much or more than anyone one the team proportional to ice time, so if he can come in and put up point totals that come even close to his '08/'09 numbers with similar ice time, it'll be a huge plus for this team.


If he plays the entire year in the top 6 with a full time PP spot, which I fully expect to happen, I think he'll get anywhere from 65-75 points next season. Despite the injury, Flip just had a career year despite playing the majority of the season with third line players and another great outing in the playoffs despite a lack-luster second round. 7 points in the first round against a tough opponent yet you still doubt his offensive abilities. It's a spectacular display of ignorance, it really is. Filppula could have 100 points next season and I'd be more surprised to see you admit that you're wrong than to see Filppula get 100 points.

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#35 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 02:27 PM

Rumor has it that McCrimmon is gonna be canned in favor of Lilja, and by doing so both Meech/Lebda will become Lilja's padawans, and will learn the ways of "The Pain Train".



:lol:

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#36 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 02:37 PM

Once all the chips are down and they have a fix on exactly how much salary cap space they have left going into the '10-'11 season I'll pay more attention to this kind of statement.

Did anyone really think the Wings were going to add a 5 million dollar player this offseason? To me this indicates that Lidstrom is staying. If Lidstrom decides to retire you can expect a big move or two.
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#37 Crymson

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 03:23 PM

Good call. Nevermind his 7 points (4 of those being goals) in 9 games in the playoffs and his 8 point/3 game streak in the midst of having 27 points in 33 games all the while have a career season in points per game. Let's ignore the reality and demand a trade for Filppula.


Will you please stop accosting people with facts and instead simply allow them to make mindless allegations backed by neither evidence nor reason?

#38 zackmorris

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 03:45 PM

The next couple of years ( I haven't checked beyond that) are pretty bleak for free agents. Out of the couple big name guys we can't afford, there's nothing we need unless we have a sudden hole opening up, which we probably won't this offseason.

There's nothing out there.

http://www.nhlnumber...&type=capnumber

Lidstrom is staying here, Kovalchuk won't be coming here, Marleau is overpaid, and the rest of the list either isn't worth the cash or we don't need them. EVery year everyone always starts discussing their super underrated gem pick because it's fun but realistically, we don't need a Svatos, Martin or Demitra. What are they going to do that our current guys can't? Seriously? We always project slightly unrealistic numbers and expectations for these guys. They'd come here, be "close but not quite scorers" for us and we'd be disappointed. We sometimes have low standards. Like Frolov. Seriously? C'mon, all he'd do is disappoint the same people who want him, because those people are always the ones who freak out at the littlest things going wrong.

The change will likely come from within because right now, considering our roster, our cap scenario and the talent available...it's the smartest thing to do. Our real focus should be trying to swing a trade for a big name defender, or planning the future around finding one. Stuart is a perfect second pairing defender, but Kronwall has proven I think that he deserves top line time. He'll need a partner, and so will Stu.

And is no one thinking of the fact that we're likely going to have to pay Jimmy pretty soon? He's not going to play for peanuts forever, and odds are he's our goalie for the foreseeable future. When Lids and Raf go, that's about 13 mil free, but Jimmy will likely command 3.5-5 mil (I'd think 4) and our defensive replacements will probably be paid around 6 mil and 3 mil respectively. Or I'd hope for a quality couple of guys worth that much.

Right now we're probably going to look at guys like Kindl, see if he's worth a s***. See if Ericsson can take the next step, and see if Rafalski is going to call it a career soon. Because as much as I think this board comes down on him WAY too hard, he has lost a slight step. We are in serious need of a physical top line defenseman. If we could somehow steal Shea Weber I'd s*** rainbows and smiles.

#39 GMRwings1983

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 04:50 PM

Rumor has it that McCrimmon is gonna be canned in favor of Lilja, and by doing so both Meech/Lebda will become Lilja's padawans, and will learn the ways of "The Pain Train".


We can only hope.

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#40 Broken 16

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 04:58 PM

i keep saying this and i'll say again, Lidstrom's discount won't be much. i will be stunned if he gets less than $5million. i think he will get $6 million



It's all going to boil down to how badly Lidstrom wants to win another Cup. Demanding a 5-6 million contract won't help his chances. He may be worth it, but the Wings can't really afford it and hope to ice a strong contender next season. I guess we'll see.

If he makes that much next season, we're looking at the same line-up + Hudler(?) + one plugger. That's how I see it anyway.

Edited by Broken 16, 11 May 2010 - 05:19 PM.






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