Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Holland Targets Gritty 4th Liner


  • Please log in to reply
146 replies to this topic

#81 Paolino99

Paolino99

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 136 posts
  • Location:Varese,ITALY

Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:28 PM

With Thornton & Volchenkov (i really like also Asham/Boogard for the 4th liner checker and Foster in the blueline)

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstron
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Helm-Cleary
Miller-Draper-THORNTON
Abdelkader/Eaves

VOLCHENKOV-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Lidstrom-Ericsson
Kindl

Howard/Osgood
Larsson

Edited by Paolino99, 16 May 2010 - 01:29 PM.

Posted Image

#82 WorkingOvertime

WorkingOvertime

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,453 posts
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:13 PM

With Thornton & Volchenkov (i really like also Asham/Boogard for the 4th liner checker and Foster in the blueline)

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstron
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Helm-Cleary
Miller-Draper-THORNTON
Abdelkader/Eaves

VOLCHENKOV-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Lidstrom-Ericsson
Kindl

Howard/Osgood
Larsson

Could this roster make the cap? I'd love to see it (with Ritola and/or Maltby in Miller's spot), but I'm not sure it works. Do you really have Miller and Draper playing above Abby and Eaves? While you could argue that Abby or Helm can center the third, I'm not sure what justification there is for icing Drapes and Miller above Abby and Eaves when the team is healthy. With that said. I'd love to have Thornton on the team. He's a pretty good player and can chuck them with the heavies.

Edited by WorkingOvertime, 16 May 2010 - 02:14 PM.


#83 BUHdactyl

BUHdactyl

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 101 posts

Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

Ever since the Boogaard/Datsyuk thing I've secretly hoped he'd be on our team. Not too worried about who we pick up as long as they can score a few goals and beat some ass when we need them to.

#84 newfy

newfy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,114 posts

Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:21 PM

The only problem with Nystrom is how little he fights. While I wouldn't mind having him on the team, I don't know how he would react to being the toughest (in term of fighting) player on the team. I'd love to have many players who will put up 5-10 fights a year, but this isn't enough for an enforcer IMO. However, this is the Wings, so I'll happily take anything Holland gets.

I don't think how much they fight really matters. Boogard had like 7 last year because he's so damn scary no one will go him. I tihnk the fact that Nystrom can give us probably 10 a year is good and he can go with the light heavies is good.

Its not really quantity, its the fact that you have 2 guys put into the lineup (Abdelkader and Nystrom) that will go whenever needed.

What does everyone think about Kyle Chipchura? I know he's had a rough time in the NHL but he was a first round pick a few years ago, was supposed to be a goal scorer, skates great and fought 10 times last year.

Detroit can resurrect careers so maybe they could turn Chipchura into a 10 goal 10 fights a year type guy?

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#85 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,796 posts

Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:48 PM

screw the enforcers...

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Franzen - Filppula - Hudler
Cleary - Helm - UFA
Eaves - Abdelkader - Miller

1. Wellwood at 1.2 mil - age 26

Chicago might let their RFA's slide with their money issues:
2. Brouwer - 1.05 mil - age 23
3. Ladd - 1.65 - age 24

That leaves 2 dominating top lines that are pp units too, and a third line that is capable of scoring frequently, and a forth line that is solid and won't let any in on our end and pitch in with a couple goals.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#86 WorkingOvertime

WorkingOvertime

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,453 posts
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:09 PM

I don't think how much they fight really matters. Boogard had like 7 last year because he's so damn scary no one will go him. I tihnk the fact that Nystrom can give us probably 10 a year is good and he can go with the light heavies is good.

To me, it is a matter of how much enforcing the player can do. I'd estimate that Abby and Nystrom would have a similar amount of fights, but neither of them are true enforcers or 'policemen'. While Boogard didn't fight much, his presence was likely deterring force (I didn't watch many Wild games this year). I'd like a proactive enforcer (Orr is the best example and worth his paycheck IMO), but I'll take whatever Holland gets. A guy like Nystrom could be a good forth liner here; however, I'd like to see someone else be the 'toughest' Wing.

#87 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:11 PM

Downie, Staubitz, Carcillo, Prust, and Chipchura are all RFAs. Don't think we'll even be considering anything like that, unless they get released.

Pyatt, Winchester, or Nystrom would be my choice.

#88 newfy

newfy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,114 posts

Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:28 PM

To me, it is a matter of how much enforcing the player can do. I'd estimate that Abby and Nystrom would have a similar amount of fights, but neither of them are true enforcers or 'policemen'. While Boogard didn't fight much, his presence was likely deterring force (I didn't watch many Wild games this year). I'd like a proactive enforcer (Orr is the best example and worth his paycheck IMO), but I'll take whatever Holland gets. A guy like Nystrom could be a good forth liner here; however, I'd like to see someone else be the 'toughest' Wing.

Yeah but I think an overall tough team is a lot better then having a skilled team with one enforcer. Adding 2 guys that are 5-10 fights a year but still play a regular shift type guy is better then getting someone who will beat the snot outta someone but can only play 4 minutes a night.

Add Nystrom (or another free agent like him) that is good for 5-10 a year, plus abdelkader who will probably end up with around 8 and you've all of a sudden got respectable toughness. Then with a couple guys more willing to fight guys like Ericcson will fight a bit more. E is probably good for 5 and can go with light heavies. Then on top of that there is an off chance Lilja might be gone and someone that played like old Lilja may be brought in. Or someone tougher like Carkner or Janik might get some 7th defenseman time.

This team is starting to realize toughness in the bottom 6 is a good thing to have and next year we're gonna be a different team. We most likely won't be the softest team in the league anymore with Ab and another guy like him.

Oh Miller should be let go too. Doesn't really provide anything at all. I have nothing against him but we don't owe him anything and its time to get a more energetic scrappier guy in his place.

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#89 WorkingOvertime

WorkingOvertime

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,453 posts
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:43 PM

Yeah but I think an overall tough team is a lot better then having a skilled team with one enforcer. Adding 2 guys that are 5-10 fights a year but still play a regular shift type guy is better then getting someone who will beat the snot outta someone but can only play 4 minutes a night.

Add Nystrom (or another free agent like him) that is good for 5-10 a year, plus abdelkader who will probably end up with around 8 and you've all of a sudden got respectable toughness. Then with a couple guys more willing to fight guys like Ericcson will fight a bit more. E is probably good for 5 and can go with light heavies. Then on top of that there is an off chance Lilja might be gone and someone that played like old Lilja may be brought in. Or someone tougher like Carkner or Janik might get some 7th defenseman time.

This team is starting to realize toughness in the bottom 6 is a good thing to have and next year we're gonna be a different team. We most likely won't be the softest team in the league anymore with Ab and another guy like him.

Oh Miller should be let go too. Doesn't really provide anything at all. I have nothing against him but we don't owe him anything and its time to get a more energetic scrappier guy in his place.

I agree on all points. Next year it looks like we are only going to get one addition to the bottom six, so I'd like it to be someone like Thornton or Prust that can fight 15+ times if needed. I'd like to see Prust/Thornton/whoever with 15+ FMs, and Abby/E/Janik with 5-10 each (Janik with more or less depending on if/how much he plays).

#90 titanium2

titanium2

    Asha... I want I want!!!

  • Bronze Booster
  • 10,495 posts

Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:25 PM

I've been around for my fair share of enforcer debates but I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about fights like they're goals. "He should be good for 20 goals a year." "He should be good for 5 fights a year." Haha.

I hope someone, DRW.com or whoever, will update whatever Ericsson's weight is by the beginning of next year. I'm tired of seeing that he's only 218 for being 6'4.

#91 newfy

newfy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,114 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 06:32 AM

I've been around for my fair share of enforcer debates but I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about fights like they're goals. "He should be good for 20 goals a year." "He should be good for 5 fights a year." Haha.

I hope someone, DRW.com or whoever, will update whatever Ericsson's weight is by the beginning of next year. I'm tired of seeing that he's only 218 for being 6'4.

And I hope someone tells Ericcson to stop playing like a teddy bear next year. The kid is tough like borderline heavyweight but he plays soft. If he's going to play bad with the puck like he did this year he could at least clear the net front and beat guys up.

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#92 Hockey God

Hockey God

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 62 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 06:47 AM

aaron downey

#93 stevkrause

stevkrause

    Legend

  • Bronze Booster
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:15 AM

And I hope someone tells Ericcson to stop playing like a teddy bear next year. The kid is tough like borderline heavyweight but he plays soft. If he's going to play bad with the puck like he did this year he could at least clear the net front and beat guys up.

Generally speaking, you don't want your defensemen to be your enforcers, it shortens up the bench and hurts the pairings and wears down the D - you want your "enforcer" to be a 4th line guy, who can add energy and still give you 5-8 SOLID, defensively smart, energy minutes a game...

With that said, Ericsson does need to put on some weight and play a little meaner - this is when he is most effective and when he is playing with his most confidence, but this doesn't necessarily mean fight - it's like you just said, just wear guys down, make them afraid to go to the dirty areas and pay a SERIOUS price to go to the front of the net - THAT is what we need him to become

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#94 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 17,012 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:42 AM

With Thornton & Volchenkov (i really like also Asham/Boogard for the 4th liner checker and Foster in the blueline)

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstron
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Helm-Cleary
Miller-Draper-THORNTON
Abdelkader/Eaves

VOLCHENKOV-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Lidstrom-Ericsson
Kindl

Howard/Osgood
Larsson

At first I thought this lineup assumed Lidstrom was retiring, but now I see you have him as the bottom pairing??

Lids may have slowed, but I'm guessing he'd retire if he was only good as a bottom pairing defenseman playing 15 minutes a game.

Generally speaking, you don't want your defensemen to be your enforcers, it shortens up the bench and hurts the pairings and wears down the D - you want your "enforcer" to be a 4th line guy, who can add energy and still give you 5-8 SOLID, defensively smart, energy minutes a game...

With that said, Ericsson does need to put on some weight and play a little meaner - this is when he is most effective and when he is playing with his most confidence, but this doesn't necessarily mean fight - it's like you just said, just wear guys down, make them afraid to go to the dirty areas and pay a SERIOUS price to go to the front of the net - THAT is what we need him to become

Agreed. Ericsson shouldn't be dropping the gloves much, but not be afraid to when necessary. And he definitely needs to develop a mean streak, especially in front of the net. He needs to start hammering guys and take some penalties, then notch it back a little so he can see where that line is.

#95 mmamolo

mmamolo

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:39 AM

I agree. Abdelkader showed flashes in the playoffs that showed he is much better then a fourth line player. Abdelkader should be the 3rd line center next year and Helm the 4th. Yeah Helm has more experience but Abdelkader seems more suited with his hands and scornig ability for that spot.

And yeah I never thought of that. Prust and Callahan in the future would be dirty. 2 guys of that size that can chuck with the heavies (Light heavies mostly)

I think eventually Abdelkader will be our 3rd line centre (ahead of Helm) but I kind of see Helm starting ahead (on the depth chart) jsut based on the fact he played all season with the Wings last year. During Abdelkader's stint last season he didn't exactly thrive and his numbers were weak. I think you let him get his feet wet and let him embrace his role and move up at his own pace. That being said, there will be a lot of line juggling going on with the bottom six anyways that it really doesnt matter.

screw the enforcers...

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Franzen - Filppula - Hudler
Cleary - Helm - UFA
Eaves - Abdelkader - Miller

1. Wellwood at 1.2 mil - age 26

Chicago might let their RFA's slide with their money issues:
2. Brouwer - 1.05 mil - age 23
3. Ladd - 1.65 - age 24

That leaves 2 dominating top lines that are pp units too, and a third line that is capable of scoring frequently, and a forth line that is solid and won't let any in on our end and pitch in with a couple goals.

Wellwood is a joke. He is soft as s***. I watched him in Toronto for years and saw enough Canucks games to know he is a waste of space despite what numbers he did put up. Ppl always cry about soft euros on this site and now ppl want to bring in a soft canadian? He's a joke.

Now, Ladd I would go for in a second. He might make a bit more money than I'd like but I think he'd be an awesome fit for this team.
Posted Imagewww.unsportsmanlike.ca

#96 stevkrause

stevkrause

    Legend

  • Bronze Booster
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:41 AM

Agreed. Ericsson shouldn't be dropping the gloves much, but not be afraid to when necessary. And he definitely needs to develop a mean streak, especially in front of the net. He needs to start hammering guys and take some penalties, then notch it back a little so he can see where that line is.

Exactly!

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#97 Lidstromboli

Lidstromboli

    buncha geezers

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,454 posts
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:16 AM

ericsson is like forrest gump or something. totally oblivious to everything and doesn't really get mad

except when he ruined perry's black panther party

Posted Image


#98 chrisdetroit

chrisdetroit

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,407 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:29 AM

We need 3rd and 4th liners who can actually put the puck in the net. We don't have that now.
Do or do not. There is no try

#99 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,817 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:42 AM

We need 3rd and 4th liners who can actually put the puck in the net. We don't have that now.


No we don't and this isn't 2002.

We're not going to have Hall of Famers on our 3rd and 4th lines anymore. Actually, our bottom two lines played well this year offensively, but struggled in the playoffs.

The 4th line is definitely for grinders and fighters. 3rd line could use a mixture of grit, scoring and checking, but don't expect some great scorers to come here and play on the 3rd line. Just doesn't work that way anymore with the salary cap.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#100 micah

micah

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,345 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:25 PM

We need 3rd and 4th liners who can actually put the puck in the net. We don't have that now.


We need 3rd and 4th liners who can actually punch people in the face. We don't have that now.

We need our superstar big money 1st and 2nd liners (Z and D) to put up more points than Babs expects out of Hudler next year (70). Those two playing to potential (along with a healthy mule) instead of 70 f'n points will make far more difference on the scoreboard than a 4th line LW having 6pts instead of 25 would. We need scorers that score and grinders that grind. There are very few effective grinders that score.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users