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Holland Targets Gritty 4th Liner


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#101 dobbles

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:50 PM

i think the key is having a 3rd line that has the ability to score. in the playoffs we definitely didn't have that this year. i have no problem with a 4th line that is super gritty and tough, but you can't just rely on your top 6 for all your production. having a 3rd line that teams have to respect is huge. obviously we aren't going to have hall of famers in the bottom 6 like 2002, but we also don't need hyperbole suggesting that he only 2 choices are HOF players or grinders on the 3rd line. having a quality 3rd line is what helps seperate the decent teams from he ones that can really go deep in the playoffs.

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#102 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:55 PM

i think the key is having a 3rd line that has the ability to score. in the playoffs we definitely didn't have that this year. i have no problem with a 4th line that is super gritty and tough, but you can't just rely on your top 6 for all your production. having a 3rd line that teams have to respect is huge. obviously we aren't going to have hall of famers in the bottom 6 like 2002, but we also don't need hyperbole suggesting that he only 2 choices are HOF players or grinders on the 3rd line. having a quality 3rd line is what helps seperate the decent teams from he ones that can really go deep in the playoffs.


We did have a quality 3rd line in the regular season. They just didn't step up in the playoffs.

Do you think we should just gut that 3rd line?
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#103 Hockey God

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:17 PM

Datsyuk-zetterberg- homer
hudler-mule- fillpula
cleary-helm-bert
abs-eaves-miller
downey ritola

Lidstrom-rafalski
kronwalt-stuwart
Ericson-kindal
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#104 newfy

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:49 PM

Datsyuk-zetterberg- homer
hudler-mule- fillpula
cleary-helm-bert
abs-eaves-miller
downey ritola

Lidstrom-rafalski
kronwalt-stuwart
Ericson-kindal
meech

This won't help the team at all. I don't want an enforcer, I want a gritty 4th liner that fights when he has too. Not someone who goes out every game with the job of fighting.

Having an enforcer in the lineup doesn't really make us tougher when we could get a guy like Nystrom who can play 12 minutes a night and have someone to answer the bell out there more often for the wings.

These next few years I tihnk the wings are going to become more of a tough team by infusing some middleweight type guys on the bottom lines that can play instead of signing one tough player. Having a team with 3 middleweights like Philly is way better then if Detroit just signed someone like Parros or Downey.

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#105 micah

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 02:15 PM

These next few years I tihnk the wings are going to become more of a tough team by infusing some middleweight type guys on the bottom lines that can play instead of signing one tough player. Having a team with 3 middleweights like Philly is way better then if Detroit just signed someone like Parros or Downey.


Agreed - we need 5 middleweights like Philly. Plus Cote at the ready when things get interesting;)
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#106 newfy

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 02:59 PM

Agreed - we need 5 middleweights like Philly. Plus Cote at the ready when things get interesting;)

Not even 5 really. Add abdlekader who I think is going to surprise us next year with his toughness along with a guy like Nystrom or Winchester or who knows maybe even someone even tougher like Prust and this team is already respectably tough. They wouldn't be getting pushed around anymore thats for sure.

Then I noticed earlier an interview had it kinda sounding like Lilja won't be back so maybe Janik is in. He'll fight 6 times and Ericcson will fight more with a tougher team to back him up. Philly is probably the toughest team in the league and they do it without a heavy weight fighter in the lineup.

Detroit has some guys that could potentially fall to them in the draft this year as well that could be tough players. Mcilrath obviously but Austin Watson and Macfarland are both fairly tough power forwards. I hope we can get one of those 3, they say Macfarland just started adding toughness to his game and so the sky is kind of the limit for him. I guess we'll see on June 25th.

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#107 Jersey Wing

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:04 PM

I think the choice is clear but it's on the back end we need it.

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#108 Guest_nutz2u (Guest)

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:32 PM

I think eventually Abdelkader will be our 3rd line centre (ahead of Helm) but I kind of see Helm starting ahead (on the depth chart) jsut based on the fact he played all season with the Wings last year. During Abdelkader's stint last season he didn't exactly thrive and his numbers were weak. I think you let him get his feet wet and let him embrace his role and move up at his own pace. That being said, there will be a lot of line juggling going on with the bottom six anyways that it really doesnt matter.


Wellwood is a joke. He is soft as s***. I watched him in Toronto for years and saw enough Canucks games to know he is a waste of space despite what numbers he did put up. Ppl always cry about soft euros on this site and now ppl want to bring in a soft canadian? He's a joke.

Now, Ladd I would go for in a second. He might make a bit more money than I'd like but I think he'd be an awesome fit for this team.

Have you ever seen Wellwood with his shirt off? Every muscle the guy owns must be in his legs cuz he looks like a flat-chested girl with a potbelly.

#109 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:39 PM

Have you ever seen Wellwood with his shirt off? Every muscle the guy owns must be in his legs cuz he looks like a flat-chested girl with a potbelly.


Someone will post that infamous picture now of him sitting poolside with the lifeguard.
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#110 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:39 PM

Not even 5 really. Add abdlekader who I think is going to surprise us next year with his toughness along with a guy like Nystrom or Winchester or who knows maybe even someone even tougher like Prust and this team is already respectably tough. They wouldn't be getting pushed around anymore thats for sure.

Then I noticed earlier an interview had it kinda sounding like Lilja won't be back so maybe Janik is in. He'll fight 6 times and Ericcson will fight more with a tougher team to back him up. Philly is probably the toughest team in the league and they do it without a heavy weight fighter in the lineup.

Detroit has some guys that could potentially fall to them in the draft this year as well that could be tough players. Mcilrath obviously but Austin Watson and Macfarland are both fairly tough power forwards. I hope we can get one of those 3, they say Macfarland just started adding toughness to his game and so the sky is kind of the limit for him. I guess we'll see on June 25th.

I'd like Nystrom here.He does it all.Takes draws,blocks shots,produces offensively here and there,and he's not afraid to drop em.Are we looking at signing 2 bottom 6 guys or just 1?Janik would be an upgrade over Lilja.He does everything Lilja used to do.
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#111 Lidstromboli

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:46 PM

janik does everything lilja can do

except for being a good defenseman

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#112 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:49 PM

janik does everything lilja can do

except for being a good defenseman

Janik can do everything that Lilja can do.The only thing Janik can't do as well as Lilja is get his ass kicked.
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#113 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:49 PM

janik does everything lilja can do

except for being a good defenseman

Janik can do everything that Lilja can do.The only thing Janik can't do as well as Lilja is get his ass kicked.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

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#114 Jesusberg

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:49 PM

Have you ever seen Wellwood with his shirt off? Every muscle the guy owns must be in his legs cuz he looks like a flat-chested girl with a potbelly.


Actually, I live in Windsor (where Wellwood is from too) and he was visiting the bars here about a year or two ago. To "avoid" being recognized by the other people in the bar he kept pulling his shirt over his face (exposing his pot belly). It was quite the experience.

#115 clutchngrab

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:55 PM

How about a real upgrade? Cleary and Hudler for some size, grit and scoring.

Edited by clutchngrab, 17 May 2010 - 09:55 PM.

Are you kidding? Block you? And miss watching you stumble around the forum looking for an argument like a dog sniffing butts? It would be like turning off a bad episode of Jerry Springer. You know you shouldn't be watching, but you just... can't... help... it...

#116 clutchngrab

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:04 PM

No we don't and this isn't 2002.

We're not going to have Hall of Famers on our 3rd and 4th lines anymore. Actually, our bottom two lines played well this year offensively, but struggled in the playoffs.

The 4th line is definitely for grinders and fighters. 3rd line could use a mixture of grit, scoring and checking, but don't expect some great scorers to come here and play on the 3rd line. Just doesn't work that way anymore with the salary cap.


Works in Chicago and San Jose, and you'll notice they are still playing hockey.
Are you kidding? Block you? And miss watching you stumble around the forum looking for an argument like a dog sniffing butts? It would be like turning off a bad episode of Jerry Springer. You know you shouldn't be watching, but you just... can't... help... it...

#117 Lidstromboli

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:09 PM

Janik can do everything that Lilja can do.The only thing Janik can't do as well as Lilja is get his ass kicked.


ok so i was wondering earlier is being a moron as fun as it seems

Edited by Lidstromboli, 17 May 2010 - 10:09 PM.

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#118 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:03 PM

ok so i was wondering earlier is being a moron as fun as it seems

Way to back up your opinion
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

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#119 Buppy

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:41 AM

Works in Chicago and San Jose, and you'll notice they are still playing hockey.


Works in Chicago because they have Kane, Toews, and Keith at bargain prices. Wait until next year when they start paying those guys.

And quick, who's on the third lines in SJ, Montreal, and Philly? Washigton? Pittsburgh? Phoenix, LA, Vancouver, Boston? Any of the other playoff teams or non-playoffs?

Really, how many third lines outside Chicago are really any better than something like Cleary-Helm-Eaves? You want your bottom guys to score a goal every other game or so. The four remaining teams got that. The guys we have now can do that. They didn't in the playoffs, but they're definitely good enough to.

You want third line scorers now, you either have stars on ELCs, a weak top 6, or Jason Williams. We have no ELCs, and I'd rather have guys like Helm, Abby, Eaves over either of the other options.

#120 newfy

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 06:26 AM

Works in Chicago and San Jose, and you'll notice they are still playing hockey.

Yeah I woudn't say San Jose has much of a scoring third line. Chicago does yeah butt hats because to have a good scoring third line you need to draft good players and have them on good contracts while theyre scoring. Detroit had Flip, Sammy and Hudler(?). Sammy was a plug turned decent player by us, Flip and Huds were both drafted by us so they were on bargain prices. Now that those guys got their contracts we don't have that scoring third line.

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