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Jasper84

NHL Fans & conspiracy theories

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So after many years of being on this board, and other hockey boards, I see people complaining about refs, and conspiracies on a daily basis. I am guilty of bitching about refs too, not because I believe there is a conspiracy going on, but because I want the officiating to improve, and be consistent.

Now my question for you guys, mainly directed at those of you who are always complaining and officiating and accusing the NHL of a conspiracy is, do you guys REALLY believe there is stuff going on behind the scenes? I'm not trying to defend to NHL, it's officiating, or the crappy commissioner of the NHL. I just simply want to know if people say this stuff just as a way to vent, or if they truly believe it. After you've answered that question, answer me this one...

If there is in fact behind the scenes nonsense going on, how is it that it's kept under such lock down that nobody has squealed? With all the refs in the game, and people in charge, that is a lot of people to trust to keep their mouths shut. Do you honestly believe that Bettman, making the millions of dollars that he makes, would risk going to prison for something like this? I don't know much about the guy, but I assume he has a family of his own too, that he wouldn't want to leave behind by going to prison.

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So after many years of being on this board, and other hockey boards, I see people complaining about refs, and conspiracies on a daily basis. I am guilty of bitching about refs too, not because I believe there is a conspiracy going on, but because I want the officiating to improve, and be consistent.

Now my question for you guys, mainly directed at those of you who are always complaining and officiating and accusing the NHL of a conspiracy is, do you guys REALLY believe there is stuff going on behind the scenes? I'm not trying to defend to NHL, it's officiating, or the crappy commissioner of the NHL. I just simply want to know if people say this stuff just as a way to vent, or if they truly believe it. After you've answered that question, answer me this one...

If there is in fact behind the scenes nonsense going on, how is it that it's kept under such lock down that nobody has squealed? With all the refs in the game, and people in charge, that is a lot of people to trust to keep their mouths shut. Do you honestly believe that Bettman, making the millions of dollars that he makes, would risk going to prison for something like this? I don't know much about the guy, but I assume he has a family of his own too, that he wouldn't want to leave behind by going to prison.

Two years ago I was a person that would vehemently argue against conspiracies against one team or another. However, my views have changed after watching the last two years of playoffs. I don't think there's an outright directive to favor anyone, but I definitely believe there is an unspoken rule to favor some teams and players. Kinda like when Jordan was playing. He could get away with murder. Lebron and Kobe would be similar examples. Remember the Ducks last year and what they did to the Wings? The disallowed goals, the phantom holding penalties, etc... Then the famous six men on the ice for the pens for over 30 seconds that wasn't called at a CRUCIAL moment of the series. Tonight's game is a perfect example of the league trying to make games more interesting. The Habs go up by four and suddenly the Pens get four straight power plays. Montreal hasn't had a power play since the first period. I saw a post on lgw after one of the Pens games about how quickly the Pens get a power play after the other team goes up by a goal. All of that can't be a coincidence, imo. So, is there a conspiracy? Probably not. Is there an effort to try to keep games close and to give the golden boy an opportunity to be a winner? Yes, I definitely think that's happening.

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I've been thinking about this throughout this year's playoffs. I have always dismissed the conspiracy theorists around here as just being tin foil hat nutjobs, but I don't think that they are completely off-base.

Let me say first and foremost that I do not believe that there is a blatant conspiracy or intent by the league to selectively eliminate certain teams from the playoffs, or help other teams to get deeper in than they normally would.

What I do believe is that Gary Bettman, and I assume those under him, places a strong emphasis on the expansion and extension of the league into new markets as well as an increase in popularity in already-established markets. Everything that he does is to this end. I have no doubt that people in the upper echelons of the NHL casually discuss how it will help the league for Sidney Crosby to win cups (being the next Wayne Gretzky and all) to help with universal league appeal, and how it will help the league for small and non-traditional market teams to achieve success in the post season. That's why the salary cap was such a sticking point in the negotiations that culminated in the league losing a season due to a lockout. Bettman would rather not play an entire season of hockey than allow the league to continue with no salary cap, because that's how important league parity is to him. Parity means that small market teams will start to experience more success. (Ironic that the last team to hoist the Cup before the lockout was Tampa.)

I think that it is an attitude that pervades the league's offices, not some sort of unwritten policy. I don't think that Bettman or Colin Campbell calls up Terry Gregson and tells him that his officials need to make sure that the Sharks beat the Wings or that the Penguins win the Stanley Cup. I have little doubt that people in the league feel that the Wings going deep into the playoffs every year is detrimental to the NHL because it is keeping other teams out, thereby preventing the growth of those teams' fan bases. Again, no one tells anyone that the Wings need to get jobbed, but I think that there is a pervasive attitude in the league that leads to negative feelings towards Detroit.

Ultimately, I think that the League's front office places more emphasis on marketing and monetary expansion through the development of under-performing markets and lucrative television contracts (that really have yet to materialize) than they do on officiating and making sure that games are run properly. It's possible that young refs aren't as experienced as they should be or aren't trained as much as they should be. Not because the league is purposefully trying to screw over certain teams, but because their priorities are elsewhere. Instead of worrying about putting out a quality product that will appeal first and foremost to hockey enthusiasts, they are spending their time trying to appeal to the mouth-breathing masses. It's the same reason that reality television dominates the airwaves instead of higher-quality programming. In terms of fans, the league is going for quantity, not quality.

Anyway, those are my feelings on the matter. I think that as long as Bettman or someone with his mindset is running the league, it is never going to be as good as it could or should be. The recent news about the Coyotes and what happened in Winnipeg further supports that. It doesn't make sense that cities like Quebec City, Winnipeg, Hartford, and Minneapolis lose NHL franchises while warm-weather cities that don't traditionally care about hockey gain franchises. These cities all ostensibly have bandwagon fans that jump ship as soon as their team starts sucking, while the cities that lost their teams are left to wonder if they will ever have an NHL team again. Again, this is bad for hockey as a whole, but it's where Bettman's priorities lie.

Chris

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I would hope that the fact Phoenix and the Pens are both eliminated would put a lid on these theories. I wouldn't be surprised if people just move on to another team though. Expecting to hear some "League wants the hawks to win" comments somewhere down the line.

The pace of the game, the interpretation (s) of the rule book and inconsistency is what hurts officiating. Nothing more.

At least that's what I think.

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Two years ago I was a person that would vehemently argue against conspiracies against one team or another. However, my views have changed after watching the last two years of playoffs. I don't think there's an outright directive to favor anyone, but I definitely believe there is an unspoken rule to favor some teams and players. Kinda like when Jordan was playing. He could get away with murder. Lebron and Kobe would be similar examples. Remember the Ducks last year and what they did to the Wings? The disallowed goals, the phantom holding penalties, etc... Then the famous six men on the ice for the pens for over 30 seconds that wasn't called at a CRUCIAL moment of the series. Tonight's game is a perfect example of the league trying to make games more interesting. The Habs go up by four and suddenly the Pens get four straight power plays. Montreal hasn't had a power play since the first period. I saw a post on lgw after one of the Pens games about how quickly the Pens get a power play after the other team goes up by a goal. All of that can't be a coincidence, imo. So, is there a conspiracy? Probably not. Is there an effort to try to keep games close and to give the golden boy an opportunity to be a winner? Yes, I definitely think that's happening.

WIN, sums up my feelings exactly. I don't necessarily think their is one, but wouldn't be surprised if there was.

EDIT: also my favorite would be when the wings scored the first goal in the 08 finals and it got called back cuz homers stick hit fleury's pad

Edited by Mitchmac33

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I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in incompetency. Which unfortunately, permeates almost every aspect of the NHL. The refs are bad. We've seen it in non-Wings games. They're just god awful and what's worse, Bettman believes that the refs get it right "most of the time". Well, how much is most? To my eyes, we're talking less than 5%.

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I love listening to Flyers fans, who believe they have a seperate set of rules, that the league enforces on them. They feel they are singled out from the other 29 teams.

Well the do have some sort of ground to stand on atleast. Granted 76-78 was a long time ago but the Philly certain wasn't an NHL favorite for a long time...

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Its too difficult for me to believe that a league that can't seem to get anything right and is run by one of the most incompetant men in the world is successfully pulling the strings to a giant conspiracy without any particular aim or benefit, or anyone ratting them out. I think that would be giving Bettman too much credit.

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I'm certain that 'stuff' is going on behind the scenes. I would say the same for every other major sport. As for the extent and severity of that 'stuff', I honestly I have no idea. As far as the NHL goes, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say it's a slow tailoring of the game to engineer penalty calls, the pace of play and the like to benefit certain styles of play, and thusly also (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not) certain teams and certain players. A business wants to expand and grow, and it's silly to think they won't do everything they feel they can get away to maximize revenue and sustain growth in a variety of areas.

For example, the league can change the standards and rules for certain types of penalty calls and certain types of play, and say it's to boost offense and provide for a more exciting products, with perhaps a dash of player protection on the side. Perfectly legal and likely to garner fan support. Now, if that just happens to benefit a star player and/or his team and their style of play in a formerly struggling market, well hey, lucky for the team that drafted him and lucky for the league. Coincidence? Who knows. The NHL was boosting offense and protecting their players.

That's the kind of stuff you should look for in a 'conspiracy', very realistic and hard to pinpoint scenarios as such. Not some of the wild, more overt stuff people come up with.

Edited by Datsyerberger

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Hal Gill had 7 minor penalties in 7 games against the pens - including 2 in the 3rd period of game 7. He had just 3 in 20 games for the pens last summer.

I'm not saying he doesn't clutch, grab, hold and interfere all over the ice, because as we know he does. But its startling how he seems to be held accountable to different standards depending on whether he wear black and gold or not.

Anyone who thinks that some sort of conspiracy, in a major sporting league, in a western nation, in the 21st century, needs to read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Italian_football_scandal

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In general, I think there's too much money to be made for owners and executives to not have any influence on the game and officials bias.

At the same time, I believe that most if not all people involved are perfectly aware of this and thus they're aware that they have to play through it.

It's just part of the game.

The real problem is the consistency. The NHL, NBA, whoever, has not been consistent with what they want to call. Coaches receive word from the officials that they will emphasize calls on obstruction, goalie interference, whatever and the coaches plan accordingly but all of sudden one instance of a hook isn't really a hook for one team but it is for the other. And then interference for one team but not interference for the other. Nobody knows what's fair.

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I would hope that the fact Phoenix and the Pens are both eliminated would put a lid on these theories.

Not really. The Habs got a big lead and the Pens got five straight power plays. The Pens lost because they couldn't convert on those chances that were handed to them.

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Not really. The Habs got a big lead and the Pens got five straight power plays. The Pens lost because they couldn't convert on those chances that were handed to them.

What about the too many men call against the Pens that killed all their comeback momentum?

Or the boarding call on Crosby in the first minute of the game.

If there really were a conspiracy then surely they wouldn't call these, especially the too many men one.

The Pens had control of the play 5 on 5 for a stretch that earnt them those penalties.

I guess you could make a case for refs calling penalties to the losing team, but I don't think its logical to make a case for refs calling penalties in favour of a specific team.

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Two years ago I was a person that would vehemently argue against conspiracies against one team or another. However, my views have changed after watching the last two years of playoffs. I don't think there's an outright directive to favor anyone, but I definitely believe there is an unspoken rule to favor some teams and players. Kinda like when Jordan was playing. He could get away with murder. Lebron and Kobe would be similar examples. Remember the Ducks last year and what they did to the Wings? The disallowed goals, the phantom holding penalties, etc... Then the famous six men on the ice for the pens for over 30 seconds that wasn't called at a CRUCIAL moment of the series. Tonight's game is a perfect example of the league trying to make games more interesting. The Habs go up by four and suddenly the Pens get four straight power plays. Montreal hasn't had a power play since the first period. I saw a post on lgw after one of the Pens games about how quickly the Pens get a power play after the other team goes up by a goal. All of that can't be a coincidence, imo. So, is there a conspiracy? Probably not. Is there an effort to try to keep games close and to give the golden boy an opportunity to be a winner? Yes, I definitely think that's happening.

This x1000.

More often than not, I typically jump all over people who cannot just accept that their favorite team lost a game or series, simply just didn't play well or the other team was better, whatever. I absolutely can't stand fand paranoia like some external forcers are forcing or wanting the favorite team to lose.

I don't waste my time thinking that there is some conspiracy or hidden agenda going to plague my favorite team or just in general, but after seeing the officiating in both the Wings series this year, as well as in general, it wouldn't surprise me. It's more of a product though of the officials just being incompetent overall and some of the just plain idiotic rules out there (intent to blow the whistle, etc.) to where you are going to look like a moron, I don't care how good or bad of a referee you are.

And I think officiating is a hard job. I was an official off and on in college for a few club leagues in basketball and soccer. Granted, the pace is obviously slower than professional leagues, but most of the guys out there are athletically competent, played sports in high school, whatever. So the pace is still fairly fast and you can't see everything.

However, just seeing some of the stuff I saw in the Wings series alone (PHX high-stick on Lidstrom in game 1 where the refs CONSULTED, they didn't accidentally miss the incident which I can live with sometimes - sometimes you miss stuff, but they CONSULTED whether it was a high stick or deserving of a penalty or not. Also, Sharks flopping in game 2 over and over again and refs barely do squat about it - I don't blame the Sharks for continuing to do it if the refs are going to be incompetent about it) and the officiating throughout the season make me trust the officiating less and less.

The Sharks deserve to be in the conference finals, overall they were the better team. It is a shame though that the officials played much more of a hand in determining the outcome of games/the series than necessary. And that's what irritates me so much. I can handle my favorite teams losing - losing is a part of life - I absolutely cannot stand official incompetency and them being more of a factor than necessary.

I wish the NHL would somehow take the ideas/practicies of NFL or College football officiating as well. Granted it makes games a bit longer and decreases the fan experience some - but in a lot of situations in football if a call is in question (i.e. did a guy fumble before his knees touched the ground/he got tackled), it can easily be reviewed, so that they get the call absolutely right by video evidence, not just human judgement alone.

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I hear Bettmen is on sucide watch after last nights Pens oust, Opps I don't believe in con , hey you 6 men on the ice Pens or 8 men sharks na no conspiracy theories here,answer this Wings second least penalized team in the league to the top penalized team in playoffs again no conspiracy here how and why ??

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I do not believe in conspiracy theories for numerous reasons. This is not the WWF folks! This is a live and very fast game and so long as there are humans referee's there will be mistakes made, bad calls and possibly emotions involved in the decisions on the ice! If there is a conspiracy then its against every team.... listen to Vancouver, they are adament there is a conspiracy against them... every team has those who belive the league or Bettman is against them. Why the f*** would these players work so hard to be the best they can be to play in a league that is setup with pre-arranged outcomes? Instead of hockey schools and training camps there would be NHL acting colleges and performance art camps! Humans make mistakes, humans let their feeling and emotions get involved. It happens to all not just the Wings or the Canucks. Last year, while still in Montreal, I heard many frenchies talking about how its all been setup for the Canadiens to win it all bc it was theor 100 year anniversary... was all saw how well that theory worked out for them. I'm not making axcuses for bad calls or possible favouritism but but all I am saying that the flaw in the system is the human factor.

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I hear Bettmen is on sucide watch after last nights Pens oust, Opps I don't believe in con , hey you 6 men on the ice Pens or 8 men sharks na no conspiracy theories here,answer this Wings second least penalized team in the league to the top penalized team in playoffs again no conspiracy here how and why ??

How and why? Stupid actions on the ice is how and why! If the calls seem to be coming more towards us then its up to the players not to give them any added reason to make the calls. It boils down to team discipline. So many ppl complain about Crosby being a whiner but all I am hearing since we lost to a hungrier team is LGW fans crying and complaining in fine Crosby fashion!

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I've been thinking about this throughout this year's playoffs. I have always dismissed the conspiracy theorists around here as just being tin foil hat nutjobs, but I don't think that they are completely off-base.

Let me say first and foremost that I do not believe that there is a blatant conspiracy or intent by the league to selectively eliminate certain teams from the playoffs, or help other teams to get deeper in than they normally would.

What I do believe is that Gary Bettman, and I assume those under him, places a strong emphasis on the expansion and extension of the league into new markets as well as an increase in popularity in already-established markets. Everything that he does is to this end. I have no doubt that people in the upper echelons of the NHL casually discuss how it will help the league for Sidney Crosby to win cups (being the next Wayne Gretzky and all) to help with universal league appeal, and how it will help the league for small and non-traditional market teams to achieve success in the post season. That's why the salary cap was such a sticking point in the negotiations that culminated in the league losing a season due to a lockout. Bettman would rather not play an entire season of hockey than allow the league to continue with no salary cap, because that's how important league parity is to him. Parity means that small market teams will start to experience more success. (Ironic that the last team to hoist the Cup before the lockout was Tampa.)

I think that it is an attitude that pervades the league's offices, not some sort of unwritten policy. I don't think that Bettman or Colin Campbell calls up Terry Gregson and tells him that his officials need to make sure that the Sharks beat the Wings or that the Penguins win the Stanley Cup. I have little doubt that people in the league feel that the Wings going deep into the playoffs every year is detrimental to the NHL because it is keeping other teams out, thereby preventing the growth of those teams' fan bases. Again, no one tells anyone that the Wings need to get jobbed, but I think that there is a pervasive attitude in the league that leads to negative feelings towards Detroit.

Ultimately, I think that the League's front office places more emphasis on marketing and monetary expansion through the development of under-performing markets and lucrative television contracts (that really have yet to materialize) than they do on officiating and making sure that games are run properly. It's possible that young refs aren't as experienced as they should be or aren't trained as much as they should be. Not because the league is purposefully trying to screw over certain teams, but because their priorities are elsewhere. Instead of worrying about putting out a quality product that will appeal first and foremost to hockey enthusiasts, they are spending their time trying to appeal to the mouth-breathing masses. It's the same reason that reality television dominates the airwaves instead of higher-quality programming. In terms of fans, the league is going for quantity, not quality.

Anyway, those are my feelings on the matter. I think that as long as Bettman or someone with his mindset is running the league, it is never going to be as good as it could or should be. The recent news about the Coyotes and what happened in Winnipeg further supports that. It doesn't make sense that cities like Quebec City, Winnipeg, Hartford, and Minneapolis lose NHL franchises while warm-weather cities that don't traditionally care about hockey gain franchises. These cities all ostensibly have bandwagon fans that jump ship as soon as their team starts sucking, while the cities that lost their teams are left to wonder if they will ever have an NHL team again. Again, this is bad for hockey as a whole, but it's where Bettman's priorities lie.

Chris

The problem I have with your post is the notion that the league wants the Redwings to lose. Why would they? They are one of the league's biggest draws.

Do you remember the Stanley Cup Finals from the years 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2007?

All of those series were made up of small market teams where at least one of the contenders was from a non traditional market such as Anaheim, Carolina, and Tampa Bay. Who did they play? They played Calgary, New Jersey, Ottawa, and Edmonton respectfully, none of whom are big draws. Those lame match-ups, combined with the lockout practically marginalized the sport.

Do you remember what happened when the Redwings got back to the Finals? The ratings went way up.

Now with that said, if there were any conspiracy to help certain teams win, then I am sure it would lean more towards large traditional markets such as Detroit, Chicago, New York Rangers, Boston, Philadelphia, and Toronto.

Sure, they want to "grow the game", but the bottom line is television ratings and exposure.

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I've been thinking about this throughout this year's playoffs. I have always dismissed the conspiracy theorists around here as just being tin foil hat nutjobs, but I don't think that they are completely off-base.

Let me say first and foremost that I do not believe that there is a blatant conspiracy or intent by the league to selectively eliminate certain teams from the playoffs, or help other teams to get deeper in than they normally would.

What I do believe is that Gary Bettman, and I assume those under him, places a strong emphasis on the expansion and extension of the league into new markets as well as an increase in popularity in already-established markets. Everything that he does is to this end. I have no doubt that people in the upper echelons of the NHL casually discuss how it will help the league for Sidney Crosby to win cups (being the next Wayne Gretzky and all) to help with universal league appeal, and how it will help the league for small and non-traditional market teams to achieve success in the post season. That's why the salary cap was such a sticking point in the negotiations that culminated in the league losing a season due to a lockout. Bettman would rather not play an entire season of hockey than allow the league to continue with no salary cap, because that's how important league parity is to him. Parity means that small market teams will start to experience more success. (Ironic that the last team to hoist the Cup before the lockout was Tampa.)

I think that it is an attitude that pervades the league's offices, not some sort of unwritten policy. I don't think that Bettman or Colin Campbell calls up Terry Gregson and tells him that his officials need to make sure that the Sharks beat the Wings or that the Penguins win the Stanley Cup. I have little doubt that people in the league feel that the Wings going deep into the playoffs every year is detrimental to the NHL because it is keeping other teams out, thereby preventing the growth of those teams' fan bases. Again, no one tells anyone that the Wings need to get jobbed, but I think that there is a pervasive attitude in the league that leads to negative feelings towards Detroit.

Ultimately, I think that the League's front office places more emphasis on marketing and monetary expansion through the development of under-performing markets and lucrative television contracts (that really have yet to materialize) than they do on officiating and making sure that games are run properly. It's possible that young refs aren't as experienced as they should be or aren't trained as much as they should be. Not because the league is purposefully trying to screw over certain teams, but because their priorities are elsewhere. Instead of worrying about putting out a quality product that will appeal first and foremost to hockey enthusiasts, they are spending their time trying to appeal to the mouth-breathing masses. It's the same reason that reality television dominates the airwaves instead of higher-quality programming. In terms of fans, the league is going for quantity, not quality.

Anyway, those are my feelings on the matter. I think that as long as Bettman or someone with his mindset is running the league, it is never going to be as good as it could or should be. The recent news about the Coyotes and what happened in Winnipeg further supports that. It doesn't make sense that cities like Quebec City, Winnipeg, Hartford, and Minneapolis lose NHL franchises while warm-weather cities that don't traditionally care about hockey gain franchises. These cities all ostensibly have bandwagon fans that jump ship as soon as their team starts sucking, while the cities that lost their teams are left to wonder if they will ever have an NHL team again. Again, this is bad for hockey as a whole, but it's where Bettman's priorities lie.

Chris

Double post.

I will agree that they seem to be aiming for quantity rather than quality, and that is, in my opinion, a detriment to the game and the league in the long run.

I think what Bettman must realize is that people prefer originality to commercialism, especially in a day and age where we are constantly bombarded with redundant ads and marketing gimmicks. Sure, clever marketing schemes and changing the game drastically may get people's attention at first, but people might eventually see the NHL for what it has become, something that is unoriginal rather than unique. In doing so, they run the risk of alienating traditional fans and boring new ones into extinction, similar to what happened with NASCAR.

They seem so caught up in marketing the game for what it could be rather than what it already is. How does Bettman expect anyone to respect the game when he clearly does not? That is simple psychology right there.

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In general, I think there's too much money to be made for owners and executives to not have any influence on the game and officials bias.

At the same time, I believe that most if not all people involved are perfectly aware of this and thus they're aware that they have to play through it.

It's just part of the game.

The real problem is the consistency. The NHL, NBA, whoever, has not been consistent with what they want to call. Coaches receive word from the officials that they will emphasize calls on obstruction, goalie interference, whatever and the coaches plan accordingly but all of sudden one instance of a hook isn't really a hook for one team but it is for the other. And then interference for one team but not interference for the other. Nobody knows what's fair.

I don't know. With that being the case, the NHL really shot itself in the foot with that lousy call in the final seconds of game 5 of the 2007 WCF against (Lidsrom I believe?) that resulted in a tying goal and a Wings loss. My memory is a little fuzzy at the moment, but it proved to be the back breaker in the series, as Anaslime cruised through game 6 despite a late Wings comeback attempt on their way to the Finals.

In the end, it left many viewers thinking "Ana who?" "the Ottawa What?" "Where is that?" It ended up being one of the least viewed SCF in history. Way to "grow the game"!!

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What about the too many men call against the Pens that killed all their comeback momentum?

Or the boarding call on Crosby in the first minute of the game.

If there really were a conspiracy then surely they wouldn't call these, especially the too many men one.

The Pens had control of the play 5 on 5 for a stretch that earnt them those penalties.

I guess you could make a case for refs calling penalties to the losing team, but I don't think its logical to make a case for refs calling penalties in favour of a specific team.

The too many men penalty was after FIVE consecutive power plays for the Pens and the one on Crosby was very early in the first. My point was, as soon as Montreal got the lead, the power plays for the Pens started rolling in. Coincidence? Maybe. If this had been a one time thing, then maybe I'd buy the coincidence theory but that trend happened repeatedly throughout that series and I don't see how that can be denied. I think it was in game 6, someone took the time to look up how long after Montreal scored a goal that the Pens got a power play. I think it was 2 minutes or less each time.

Do you think the NBA refs favor Lebron, Kobe, etc...??? Clearly the answer is yes. So, why is it so far fetched to think that the NHL's version of those two wouldn't get the star treatment from the refs?

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The too many men penalty was after FIVE consecutive power plays for the Pens and the one on Crosby was very early in the first. My point was, as soon as Montreal got the lead, the power plays for the Pens started rolling in. Coincidence? Maybe. If this had been a one time thing, then maybe I'd buy the coincidence theory but that trend happened repeatedly throughout that series and I don't see how that can be denied. I think it was in game 6, someone took the time to look up how long after Montreal scored a goal that the Pens got a power play. I think it was 2 minutes or less each time.

Do you think the NBA refs favor Lebron, Kobe, etc...??? Clearly the answer is yes. So, why is it so far fetched to think that the NHL's version of those two wouldn't get the star treatment from the refs?

Yes, and my point is that the penalties I mentioned were both momentum sapping penalties when they were called. In fact Montreal had 2 consecutive power plays to start the game. If they were truly favouring the pens then they were doing a horrible job at it.

As for the NBA thing, I don't watch it so I can't say. I just refuse to believe the refs are told to favour certain teams. Perhaps you could make a case for one particular ref being corrupt or something like that, but there is no way the entire league brass has sat down and said they want X team to get favourable treatment.

Do you think Detroit gets favourable treatment? I can guarantee opposition fans think we do (We don't obviously). It's just the way it is.

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Yes, and my point is that the penalties I mentioned were both momentum sapping penalties when they were called. In fact Montreal had 2 consecutive power plays to start the game. If they were truly favouring the pens then they were doing a horrible job at it.

As for the NBA thing, I don't watch it so I can't say. I just refuse to believe the refs are told to favour certain teams. Perhaps you could make a case for one particular ref being corrupt or something like that, but there is no way the entire league brass has sat down and said they want X team to get favourable treatment.

Do you think Detroit gets favourable treatment? I can guarantee opposition fans think we do (We don't obviously). It's just the way it is.

No, I never said refs were told to favor anyone. I doubt that happens, but there isn't a doubt in my mind that certain players and teams get star treatment. It happens in every other sport and I think it'd be naive to assume it doesn't happen in hockey.

No, I don't think the Wings get favorable treatment in any way (especially in the playoffs). It seems odd to me that they went from the second least penalized team in the regular season to the most penalized team in the playoffs.

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