41 replies to this topic

[Buppy]

East cumulative:
115-118-37

Looks like you forgot to add in Florida

[Zetts]

East cumulative:
115-118-37

Looks like you forgot to add in Florida

Ah, nicely done. Thanks.

[SouthernWingsFan]

For all of Bettman's desire to have NHL teams playing at parity in the post-cap world, and for all the 3 point games this year that helped inflate point totals around the league, the NHL is still very imbalanced. All we have to do is look at these playoffs. In the West the top 2 seeds have made it where they are suppose to have, the semi finals, while in the east you have two teams left in Philly ad Montreal that are so awful they would have been 12 and 13 seeds in the West. While some might say that having them make it this far shows parity (personally I think it shows PARODY), but all it proves to me is that the East is terrible. There is a awful imbalance between the two conferences. In fact, 4 of the 8 eastern playoff teams would have finished behind Colorado for the 8th seed. how crazy is that? It only further pushes the idea that playoffs should be seeded 1-16, regardless of conference. Would have been a very different playoffs this year:

Washington/Calgary
San Jose/St. Louis
Chicago/Boston
Phoenix/Ottawa
Vancouver/Colorado
New Jersey/Buffalo
Detroit/Nashville
Pittsburgh/Los Angeles

notice that the two eastern conference finalists are not even in the playoffs! no wonder this league isn't taken seriously sometimes.

There's plenty of parity.

When the Wings got upset against Edmonton in the 2006 Stanley Cup playoffs, Edmonton was an 8th seed and all the bottom seeds advanced in the playoffs that year from the Western Conference.

I will agree with you that more often than not the Western Conference is better than the Eastern Conference.

Not that I necessarily like parity. One way to start getting rid of it is to get rid of the stupid 3-point games that go into overtime. If you lose at any point in a game, 0 points no questions asked.

[NC WINGS FAN]

The way I see it, the salary cap really has not changed the league much in terms of parity.

Prior to the salary cap, top seeded teams were ousted in the first and second rounds almost every year by teams no one thought even belonged in the post season.

The 1990s and 2000s were full of Cinderella stories and one-hit wonders.

Here are just a few:

1991 North Stars
1994 Sharks
1997 Oilers
1998 Capitals
2000 Sharks
2001 Kings
2002 Hurricans
2003 Mighty Ducks

As organizations become better at building around the salary cap, parity will become less evident. Look at the NFL. In my opinion, that is a good thing as too much parity is boring.

[CaliWingsNut]

Sounds to me more like we've proven that the shootouts don't work.

[Broken 16]

Sounds to me more like we've proven that the shootouts don't work.

Shootouts are fine. It's the consolation point awarded after it and/or overtime that has to go. If you lose in any fashion... 0 points.

[eva unit zero]

The main problem is the imbalance between the conferences, and the fact that the three-point game exists in its current fashion.

Change the point system to:

3 points for a win in regulation or OT
2 points for a win in a SO
1 point for SO loss
0 points for regulation/OT loss

Follow this up with:

Each division winner is guaranteed a top-8 seed and therefore first-round home-ice in the playoffs. The playoffs are seeded 1-16 by points. For example, the top three teams could all come from one division if that's how the points rolled, as there are two "wild-card" spots which get first-round home ice. Teams are re-seeded each round based on seed (division sinners retain their playoff seed) as the playoffs progress.

This would provide for a fairer playoff system as the best teams would be in, regardless of division or conference. Think about it. These would have been the first-round matchups:

(1) Washington vs. (16) Calgary
(2) San Jose vs. (15) St. Louis
(3) Chicago vs. (14) Boston
(4) Phoenix vs. (13) Ottawa
(5) Vancouver vs. (12) Colorado
(6) New Jersey vs. (11) Nashville
(7) Detroit vs. (10) Los Angeles
(8) Buffalo vs. (9) Pittsburgh

Likely leading to:

(1) Washington vs. (9) Pittsburgh (OH SNAP!)
(2) San Jose vs. (7) Detroit
(3) Chicago vs. (6) New Jersey
(4) Phoenix vs. (5) Vancouver

(1) Washington vs. (5) Vancouver
(2) San Jose vs. (3) Chicago

(1) Washington vs. (3) Chicago

And Chicago wins the Cup. They'll win it this year anyway, just over a different opponent.

[CaliWingsNut]

A bunch of text in some funny looking font to make it look different from other accounts....

3 points isn't the answer. 2 points win, 1 point OT win, 0 loss.

[VM1138]

I wish everyday the Wings played in the east...******* western road trips man... Although Chicago, Columbus and St-Louis are in the same boat

I kind of do, but then again being in the West keeps the Wings sharp. If we played in the East we could lose the grit we have and end up getting blown out like most Eastern teams. Either that or we'd simply dominate, but since anyone can beat Eastern teams it's that much more satisfying when the Wings make it through the ringer of the West.

[wings1110]

east sucks but they still get all the media attention and s***.

[eva unit zero]

3 points isn't the answer. 2 points win, 1 point OT win, 0 loss.

Detroit goes undefeated, winning every game in OT. 82 points.
Chicago wins 41 games in regulation and one in OT, and loses 40. 83 points.

Which team is better?

Systems where points awarded in each game are not the same from game to game are epic fail because they provide extra points that suddenly appear, or in your case remove points. If you want a simple W/L system, just use a simple W/L system and discard points altogether.

[servo]

For all of Bettman's desire to have NHL teams playing at parity in the post-cap world, and for all the 3 point games this year that helped inflate point totals around the league, the NHL is still very imbalanced. All we have to do is look at these playoffs. In the West the top 2 seeds have made it where they are suppose to have, the semi finals, while in the east you have two teams left in Philly ad Montreal that are so awful they would have been 12 and 13 seeds in the West. While some might say that having them make it this far shows parity (personally I think it shows PARODY), but all it proves to me is that the East is terrible. There is a awful imbalance between the two conferences. In fact, 4 of the 8 eastern playoff teams would have finished behind Colorado for the 8th seed. how crazy is that? It only further pushes the idea that playoffs should be seeded 1-16, regardless of conference. Would have been a very different playoffs this year:

Washington/Calgary
San Jose/St. Louis
Chicago/Boston
Phoenix/Ottawa
Vancouver/Colorado
New Jersey/Buffalo
Detroit/Nashville
Pittsburgh/Los Angeles

notice that the two eastern conference finalists are not even in the playoffs! no wonder this league isn't taken seriously sometimes.

I've always thought that the teams should be seeded like this. Especially from about 94 when the east *except NJ* absolutly sucked. Again, the winner of the WCF wins the cup.

[Crashnburnluder]

Please go back to a simple 2 point system. If you win the game 2 points if you lose the game 0 points. No reward for getting to overtime or a shootout.

I know the NHL added the extra point so that teams would compete in OT, but all they did was make the dying minutes of the 3rd slower due to the fact that teams now will try to get to the OT for the point.... If you do a 3 point system once again you mak teams play a defense OT so that they don't risk ending thr game with 0 points because the shootout loss reward you with one. A two point system is the best and easiest way to due the standings and it needs to
be changed to back this season... NO MORE 3 POINT GAMES!!

[NC WINGS FAN]

For all of Bettman's desire to have NHL teams playing at parity in the post-cap world, and for all the 3 point games this year that helped inflate point totals around the league, the NHL is still very imbalanced. All we have to do is look at these playoffs. In the West the top 2 seeds have made it where they are suppose to have, the semi finals, while in the east you have two teams left in Philly ad Montreal that are so awful they would have been 12 and 13 seeds in the West. While some might say that having them make it this far shows parity (personally I think it shows PARODY), but all it proves to me is that the East is terrible. There is a awful imbalance between the two conferences. In fact, 4 of the 8 eastern playoff teams would have finished behind Colorado for the 8th seed. how crazy is that? It only further pushes the idea that playoffs should be seeded 1-16, regardless of conference. Would have been a very different playoffs this year:

Washington/Calgary
San Jose/St. Louis
Chicago/Boston
Phoenix/Ottawa
Vancouver/Colorado
New Jersey/Buffalo
Detroit/Nashville
Pittsburgh/Los Angeles

notice that the two eastern conference finalists are not even in the playoffs! no wonder this league isn't taken seriously sometimes.

The problem I see with this set-up is that it would diminish rivalries.

Most of the NHL's best rivalries come from memories of past playoff bouts. The Canadiens/Bruins, Redwings/Avalanche, Blues, Blackhawks, Oilers/Flames, etc either originated and/or were greatly intensified from meeting in the playoffs numerous times.

You add more teams to the realm, and you decrease the likelihood of teams meeting in the playoffs. As a result, rivalries may suffer. Some would argue they already have diminished rivalries since the league abandoned the divisional rounds.

[NC WINGS FAN]

For all of Bettman's desire to have NHL teams playing at parity in the post-cap world, and for all the 3 point games this year that helped inflate point totals around the league, the NHL is still very imbalanced. All we have to do is look at these playoffs. In the West the top 2 seeds have made it where they are suppose to have, the semi finals, while in the east you have two teams left in Philly ad Montreal that are so awful they would have been 12 and 13 seeds in the West. While some might say that having them make it this far shows parity (personally I think it shows PARODY), but all it proves to me is that the East is terrible. There is a awful imbalance between the two conferences. In fact, 4 of the 8 eastern playoff teams would have finished behind Colorado for the 8th seed. how crazy is that? It only further pushes the idea that playoffs should be seeded 1-16, regardless of conference. Would have been a very different playoffs this year:

Washington/Calgary
San Jose/St. Louis
Chicago/Boston
Phoenix/Ottawa
Vancouver/Colorado
New Jersey/Buffalo
Detroit/Nashville
Pittsburgh/Los Angeles

notice that the two eastern conference finalists are not even in the playoffs! no wonder this league isn't taken seriously sometimes.

Another thing you must consider is that the owners would not go for it for a few reasons.

On problem here would be travel costs. Another reason is television ratings. How many fans of East Coast teams do you think would stay up until 10:30 on a weeknight to watch their team play a game in the first round of the playoffs against some team on the West Coast?

Imagine if you are Boston and you have to play San Jose in the first round. The travel would be daunting to say the least and who in Boston gives a rat's ass about the Sharks?

I agree that the Redwings and a few other teams get screwed by the status quo

[mmamolo]

If Washington had to fly all the way to Calgary in the first round, they'd have a s***-fit. Let it stay the way it is, if you're not good enough to make your conference, you're not good enough to win the cup.

Like Detroit having to go to Phoenix...or San Jose

Ask and you shall receive:

East vs West
New Jersey 7-9-2
Pittsburgh 9-7-2
Philadelphia 8-7-3
New York Rangers 7-10-1
New York Islanders 10-6-2
Buffalo 10-5-3
Ottawa 9-8-1
Boston 7-7-4
Montreal 7-9-2
Toronto 5-12-1
Washington 10-5-3
Atlanta 8-7-3
Carolina 5-12-1
Tampa Bay 6-7-5
Florida 7-7-4

Cumulative: 115-118-37


West vs East
Chicago 11-5-2
Detroit 9-6-3
Nashville 12-4-2
St. Louis 9-7-2
Columbus 8-7-3
Vancouver 13-5-0
Colorado 12-5-1
Calgary 11-5-2
Minnesota 10-4-4
Edmonton 7-9-2
San Jose 12-4-2
Phoenix 11-6-1
LA 14-4-0
Anaheim 9-7-2
Dallas 7-9-2

Cumulative: 155-87-28

Is it me or shouldn't the cumulative East vs. West record equally reflect the West vs. East record?


Persaonlly I think there's parity in this league but that doesnt mean the conferences are balanced. No one can say that the Eastern Conference is anywhere near as good as the West. Even if the East were able to end up with a cumulative winning record in the regular season against the west I still wouldn't necessarily be sold - but that clearly wasnt the case. Look at the point totals from this season and look at the rosters of the teams. The West is a powerhouse compared to the East.

You may end up with an Eastern SC Champ and that's all fine and good. Anything can happen in a SC finals series but that doesn't prove superiority despite what a lot of jackasses may say (in terms of conference superiority). THe problem is the NHL, as a league, can't really do much to control the balance of power between conferences. General Managers sign, trade and manage their teams how they desire.

At the end of the day, it's almost kind of sad (from the NHL's perspective) that the West is so much stronger. The fact that so much of the NHL's audience base is out of the East it would be so much more beneficial to have more stars and better teams in the Eastern conference. That would create more exposure, more merchandise sales, more ticket sales, etc. etc.

[Frozen-Man]

For all of Bettman's desire to have NHL teams playing at parity in the post-cap world, and for all the 3 point games this year that helped inflate point totals around the league, the NHL is still very imbalanced. All we have to do is look at these playoffs. In the West the top 2 seeds have made it where they are suppose to have, the semi finals, while in the east you have two teams left in Philly ad Montreal that are so awful they would have been 12 and 13 seeds in the West. While some might say that having them make it this far shows parity (personally I think it shows PARODY), but all it proves to me is that the East is terrible. There is a awful imbalance between the two conferences. In fact, 4 of the 8 eastern playoff teams would have finished behind Colorado for the 8th seed. how crazy is that? It only further pushes the idea that playoffs should be seeded 1-16, regardless of conference. Would have been a very different playoffs this year:

Washington/Calgary
San Jose/St. Louis
Chicago/Boston
Phoenix/Ottawa
Vancouver/Colorado
New Jersey/Buffalo
Detroit/Nashville
Pittsburgh/Los Angeles

notice that the two eastern conference finalists are not even in the playoffs! no wonder this league isn't taken seriously sometimes.

Most US sports have this problem. The West has had the vast majority of dominate teams in the NBA for a long time. That's just the breaks sometimes, there is no way to create that type of parity because the good teams change, back when Jordan played the East was much better then it shifted to the West. The point to the parity is that teams in either conference have a realistic shot of winning, and the fact that there is parity is shown in the two teams that reached the Eastern Conference Finals.

[toby91_ca]

Is it me or shouldn't the cumulative East vs. West record equally reflect the West vs. East record?

The records are consistent, it just doesn't look that way because of OT and SO wins/losses. Both records include 270 games. if you look at the total losses of each conference (L + OTL or SOL), that equals the wins of the other conference.

I think the "proof" the OP's is suggesting show parity is not working is quite the opposite, I think it goes to prove that parity is working. You also see different teams succeeded year after year, which is part of the goal.

I think the OP's real beef is that the EC is weaker than the WC and if you seeded 1-16 instead of the top 8 in each conference, there would be teams in the EC that wouldn't make it.

I don't think you can really do something like that without wildly adjusting the schedule and doing something like that would essentially remove the need to actually have separate conferences. There's real no need to have separate divisions at this point either, other than the fact that division winners are seated 1-3.

While it may seem easy to point to records and show that the West is the superior conference, I don't think it's that cut and dry. I think the West is stronger, but you really can't say for sure if the teams are no playing a balanced schedule. Most say that the Western teams have to deal with a lot more travel, which is fair, but who's to say that if the Eastern teams travelled more, they would get more used to it, therefore limiting the impact they'd face when they do make the trip, vs. today's scheudle, which only includes rare trips. Always 2 ways of looking at it.

[PotbellyJoe]

Have you guys noticed....At least one team from the past 2 Winter Classic games have made it to the final (Pittsburgh and Detroit)

And lost...

[55fan]

And lost...

Good point.

And I just now understood your avatar.


I think the fact that over half of the teams in the league make the playoffs in and of itself insures some sort of parity. The top spots may be the same teams year after year, but the bottom spots are up for grabs and as the Habs have shown us this year, anything can happen once you're in.