Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 6 votes

The Curse of Marian Hossa


  • Please log in to reply
227 replies to this topic

#81 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,759 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 24 May 2010 - 08:03 PM

You know if not for that imbecile Erat, Chicago wouldn't have advanced past the first round.

You had to know it was their year after that game.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#82 Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday

    LGW's impromptu Photoshopper

  • Silver Booster
  • 4,337 posts

Posted 24 May 2010 - 08:45 PM

I never said drafting hadn't been the same for quite some time. The point is Chicago got the vast majority their talent from sucking for many years. It wasn't through great scouting, player development, excellent trades, or great free agent signing (other than Hossa). It came from the fact that they were one of the worst teams, consistently, for a long time. My original post was nothing other than a statement of that fact. People sometimes give credit to the Hawks for developing a great team when I don't think that they did much development but rather benefited from consistent top picks. My point was not, and I have not argued, any of tangents that you have tried to make it. The fact is that it is very rare for a team to get that many top three picks in that short a span. I don't really care about the rest of it, I don't care if it is fair, or if the Wings got a number 4 pick, and I never said that the Hawks intentionally tanked. You still aren't really refuting my only statement that the Hawks can attribute the vast majority of their success to having been so bad for so long that they got a lot of really high picks pretty consecutively.


Why should I refute the point when you are using it as a basis to attack the team?

Who even cares? The Hawks got a lot of good players, but that isn't the only reason they are there. They have a complete team for the cup and they have the best chance at a cup. Their management has to be doing SOMETHING right.

Posted Image


#83 RedWingsRox

RedWingsRox

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,109 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 24 May 2010 - 10:02 PM

Just think about this. Either Hossa or Leino will hoist the cup ... which would you prefer?

#84 Red Storm

Red Storm

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 71 posts

Posted 24 May 2010 - 10:10 PM

Just think about this. Either Hossa or Leino will hoist the cup ... which would you prefer?

Leino and the Underdog Flyers for sure. I don't know if you saw Leighton interviewed after the game a real moment, the guys got heart been on waivers five times; it be nice if he could hold back the Hawks lethal attack.

#85 Travis

Travis

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI

Posted 25 May 2010 - 07:30 AM

Much in the same way that people around here can't fathom rooting for the 'Hawks, I feel the same way about the Flyers. I like Danny Briere, but that's where it ends. They're the Flyers. And if that weren't bad enough, they add Pronger. Effin' a.

cc_champs-5_zps34057ff0.png


#86 Hockeytown0001

Hockeytown0001

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 22,647 posts
  • Location:A2, Michigan

Posted 25 May 2010 - 07:41 AM

Posted Image

"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
"Very few cities in the NHL have the history or the following of the Detroit Red Wings." - Steve Yzerman

 

 


#87 Frozen-Man

Frozen-Man

    Thanks for the memories

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,579 posts

Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:40 AM

Why should I refute the point when you are using it as a basis to attack the team?

Who even cares? The Hawks got a lot of good players, but that isn't the only reason they are there. They have a complete team for the cup and they have the best chance at a cup. Their management has to be doing SOMETHING right.


You don't have to refute it, but I made a comment and you tried to refute it by asking about Yzerman. I pointed out that that the multitude of consecutive high draft picks was in no way similar to the Wings getting one such pick. You didn't have to get into it at all but you chose to and then started trying to change what I was saying rather than actually refuting what I did say.


As for who cares, I care that is why I brought it up. I didn't ask you to care or to respond, just don't respond with a completely false analogy to try to disprove my statement and then when I point out the fallacy act as if it doesn't even matter. I never said the Hawks don't have a lot of good players, they do, and in fact I really like the Blackhawks and almost all of their players. That was never the point no matter how much you try to twist it. The plain fact is that if Chicago had not been so bad for such an extended length of time they would not have gotten multiple incredibly high draft picks. If they hadn't gotten multiple incredibly high draft picks they would not have gotten tons of extremely talented young players on the cheap. That has allowed them to have a core group of young players that are all very top draft picks, on cheap contracts, at the same time. That has allowed them to have the team that they have. I'm not bitter about it and don't deny the ability of the team (as I said I really like the Hawks) but I'm also not going to act as if through great GM work (good UFA signings, mining late round picks, player development, etc.) they have built a model franchise. If you think that they have fine, I don't really care, just don't act as if the Wings getting one 4th place pick is the same as the picks the Hawks have had lately. It just isn't the same and it is blatantly obvious.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


#88 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 25 May 2010 - 12:07 PM

You know if not for that imbecile Erat, Chicago wouldn't have advanced past the first round.

You had to know it was their year after that game.


Yeah, Erat really screwed that one up. I was pretty angry.

Anyhow---Hossa has 11 points and is tied for first on his team in +/-. He's not doing too badly.

#89 Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday

    LGW's impromptu Photoshopper

  • Silver Booster
  • 4,337 posts

Posted 25 May 2010 - 12:09 PM

You don't have to refute it, but I made a comment and you tried to refute it by asking about Yzerman. I pointed out that that the multitude of consecutive high draft picks was in no way similar to the Wings getting one such pick. You didn't have to get into it at all but you chose to and then started trying to change what I was saying rather than actually refuting what I did say.


I didn't change what you said. I said that teams have to suck to get important players. It takes good management however to get other players in the system to create a contender. The Hawks did that which is why their team is so deep.


As for who cares, I care that is why I brought it up. I didn't ask you to care or to respond, just don't respond with a completely false analogy to try to disprove my statement and then when I point out the fallacy act as if it doesn't even matter. I never said the Hawks don't have a lot of good players, they do, and in fact I really like the Blackhawks and almost all of their players. That was never the point no matter how much you try to twist it. The plain fact is that if Chicago had not been so bad for such an extended length of time they would not have gotten multiple incredibly high draft picks. If they hadn't gotten multiple incredibly high draft picks they would not have gotten tons of extremely talented young players on the cheap. That has allowed them to have a core group of young players that are all very top draft picks, on cheap contracts, at the same time. That has allowed them to have the team that they have. I'm not bitter about it and don't deny the ability of the team (as I said I really like the Hawks) but I'm also not going to act as if through great GM work (good UFA signings, mining late round picks, player development, etc.) they have built a model franchise. If you think that they have fine, I don't really care, just don't act as if the Wings getting one 4th place pick is the same as the picks the Hawks have had lately. It just isn't the same and it is blatantly obvious.


The analogy was fine. Teams that suck have a greater chance to get high draft picks and a greater chance to get important players. Yzerman was Detroit's. And Detroit built off that, albeit at a much slower pace.

Chicago had important picks. And they built off that at a much faster pace due to the fact they had a greater propensity of high picks. However they still plugged in players who could get the job done.

Adam Burish: 282nd overall
Troy Brouwer: 214th overall
Dustin Byfuglien: 245th overall
Patrick Sharp: 95th overall
Duncan Keith: 54th overall
Brent Seabrook: 14th overall

And don't forget the FA signings that are also on the team. They may not be a "model" franchise but they took the picks they had (without superstars like Malkin and Crosby) and were able to create a bonafide Stanley Cup team within only a few years.

Posted Image


#90 Frozen-Man

Frozen-Man

    Thanks for the memories

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,579 posts

Posted 25 May 2010 - 01:03 PM

I didn't change what you said. I said that teams have to suck to get important players. It takes good management however to get other players in the system to create a contender. The Hawks did that which is why their team is so deep.


You just changed it again. I never said teams didn't have to suck to get important players. My whole point was about the length that they sucked and sucked bad. It wasn't that they were bad a year or two they had to be horrible for quite a while to get all their high picks. It's not like the Wings getting one pick - look back at their picks for a for quite a stretch and they got lots of high picks because they continuously sucked. Very similar to the Pens.


The analogy was fine. Teams that suck have a greater chance to get high draft picks and a greater chance to get important players. Yzerman was Detroit's. And Detroit built off that, albeit at a much slower pace.


Because they only were bad enough to get one high pick, which was my whole point. Had they continued to rack up 1, 2, 3, draft picks then yeah your analogy would work. Again, the analogy was not correct because you took one draft pick, which was number four, and argued that the one pick was the same as my statement which as its whole point dealt with multiple top three draft picks. I am not saying that the Hawks did nothing right. I am merely saying that their success is attributable to being bad enough that in a four year span they got the #3, #7, #1, and #3 pick. To compare it to one Wings pick (which was lower than 3 of the 4 Hawks picks) is a bad analogy. If I had said the Hawks were good because they got the #3 pick a few years ago and took Toews then yeah it would be a good analogy but has nothing to do with what I said. My entire point was that one of those draft picks would not have the Hawks as the dominant team that they are - they also got Barker two years before and Kane the year after.



Chicago had important picks. And they built off that at a much faster pace due to the fact they had a greater propensity of high picks. However they still plugged in players who could get the job done.

Adam Burish: 282nd overall
Troy Brouwer: 214th overall
Dustin Byfuglien: 245th overall
Patrick Sharp: 95th overall
Duncan Keith: 54th overall
Brent Seabrook: 14th overall

And don't forget the FA signings that are also on the team. They may not be a "model" franchise but they took the picks they had (without superstars like Malkin and Crosby) and were able to create a bonafide Stanley Cup team within only a few years.


They made so good late picks for sure, although Burish has 0 points plays, 5:40 per night, and is a -2 in the playoffs and I wouldn't exactly call Seabrook a late pick. I am not saying they have done nothing well but overall their success is primarily due to the multiple high draft picks. Also, I wouldn't exactly say their FA signings are anything to brag about. Hossa was a great signing but Campbell at $7.14M for 8 years is largely considered the most overpaid player in the NHL and don't forget their 5.625M goalie with 2 years left on his contract who is riding the pine all the way to the finals. In fact the Campbell signing is so bad there have been rumors that the Hawks might have to buy him out. They have done a few good things but give most teams 3 top three picks and a plethora of other high picks and they could put together a pretty great team as well, Pitt did a pretty comparable thing.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


#91 Hockeytown0001

Hockeytown0001

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 22,647 posts
  • Location:A2, Michigan

Posted 25 May 2010 - 01:11 PM

2008 - "I wonder what it would be like to play with those guys..."
Posted Image

2009 - "Chicago is a hot, up and coming team...."
Posted Image

2010 - "Hey, I'd love to be your wingman next season."
Posted Image to Posted Image







Edited by Hockeytown0001, 25 May 2010 - 01:18 PM.

"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
"Very few cities in the NHL have the history or the following of the Detroit Red Wings." - Steve Yzerman

 

 


#92 Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday

    LGW's impromptu Photoshopper

  • Silver Booster
  • 4,337 posts

Posted 25 May 2010 - 03:10 PM

My point Frozen is the Hawks did what every team does. The draft is the life-blood of hockey teams.

The Hawks just were able to get it done quicker because they had more high draft picks, but their method was the same as the Wings, Pens, or whoever else.

Posted Image


#93 Frozen-Man

Frozen-Man

    Thanks for the memories

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,579 posts

Posted 25 May 2010 - 03:36 PM

My point Frozen is the Hawks did what every team does. The draft is the life-blood of hockey teams.

The Hawks just were able to get it done quicker because they had more high draft picks, but their method was the same as the Wings, Pens, or whoever else.


Yeah I agree with that. Every team does have to draft and get serviceable players out of the draft. My only point of contention is that the reason that they got so many high draft picks is because they sucked for a longer period of time. I don't really see the process that the Wings (or San Jose, or New Jersey) went through as the same as Chicago or Pittsburgh. If you get that many top 3 picks back-to-back-to-back you are pretty much guaranteed great players. The Hawks have done a lot with a lot whereas the Wings have done a lot with a little.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


#94 Hossa4Life

Hossa4Life

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,139 posts
  • Location:HockeyTown Michigan

Posted 25 May 2010 - 08:38 PM

there is no way that the hawks are going to lose to the flyers. "Curse" over. Nice job Hossa i am so proud of you.

But I must be off, I have some jerking off to do. Oh btw I like to consider myself extremely attractive and am proud of myself for being your intellectual superior as I am going to UofM next year, and I am a better hockey player than Crosby.

Posted Image


#95 wingnut40

wingnut40

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,241 posts
  • Location:Minis Tirith, Gondor. Middle Earth

Posted 25 May 2010 - 09:11 PM

there is no way that the hawks are going to lose to the flyers. "Curse" over. Nice job Hossa i am so proud of you.


I really hope he tears it up in the Final because Lord knows even if he does win it, people on here will continue to say how he didn't earn it. I hope he gets handed the Cup first. That's what would have happened last year.
Go rest high on that mountain, cause son your work on Earth is done. Go to Heaven a'shouting love for the Father and the Son. Ruslan Salei, Brad McCrimmon, Stefan Liv, Pavol Demitra, and the entire Lokomotiv team.

#96 Hockeytown0001

Hockeytown0001

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 22,647 posts
  • Location:A2, Michigan

Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:03 AM

What do the Chicago fans think of Hossa only having 2 goals through three rounds of the playoffs?

"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
"Very few cities in the NHL have the history or the following of the Detroit Red Wings." - Steve Yzerman

 

 


#97 Hossa4Life

Hossa4Life

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,139 posts
  • Location:HockeyTown Michigan

Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:13 AM

I really hope he tears it up in the Final because Lord knows even if he does win it, people on here will continue to say how he didn't earn it. I hope he gets handed the Cup first. That's what would have happened last year.


Yea but no organization has the class of detroit. Baby kane would ****** up that cup and never even remember hossa.

But I must be off, I have some jerking off to do. Oh btw I like to consider myself extremely attractive and am proud of myself for being your intellectual superior as I am going to UofM next year, and I am a better hockey player than Crosby.

Posted Image


#98 Dimaline312000

Dimaline312000

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,182 posts

Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:39 AM

I hope Hossa never gets a Cup so I'm definetly Rooting for Philly. Let the Curse Continue.

#99 Puckpossession

Puckpossession

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 113 posts

Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:45 PM

Leino and the Underdog Flyers for sure. I don't know if you saw Leighton interviewed after the game a real moment, the guys got heart been on waivers five times; it be nice if he could hold back the Hawks lethal attack.


Leino, i don't have any judgements on what type of person leino is in the real world, but hossa jumping ship so many times pisses me off

flyers can definately beat the shark, richards,carter,briere,gagne, have tones of heart, and the flyer do have depth and play hard. They never give up, its gonna be about who wants it the most. Hossa needs to have ice in his veins, something that he didnt have against pittsburgh. Its like he cudnt back stab is old team for some reason, ***.

#100 RedWingsRox

RedWingsRox

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,109 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 26 May 2010 - 03:37 PM

I was just reminded that Hossa 'took' 7.5 mill from us last year and didn't show up at the playoffs. I know, he had surgery afterwards and that he was injured but hell, that is Lidstrom money. Why are people so enamoured by him? Hossa, along with Luongo and Lacavalier are probably the most overrated and overpaid players in the NHL. He's about a point a game player ... certainly not worth $7+ mill/yr. Sorry ... no cup for you ... we give it to Philly and Leino.

Edited by RedWingsRox, 26 May 2010 - 03:37 PM.






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users