History Will be Made

[stevkrause 1,247]

Totally wrong. He plays on a line with Briere and Hartnell and he's been the engine of that line since they got united. Even Scott Hartnell got going once he was put on that line. If you don't want to believe your own eyes, then OK. But Leino does go to the hard areas, receives hit and he's done it since he game to the Flyers. As I said, once he started doing all that the points came after a little while. He's been many times in front of the net doing dirty work even when he has not gotten points out of it.

Lack of heart? Do you have a heart-o-meter back there or how did you measure his lack of heart? To me saying that someone doesn't have the heart means that someone doesn't even want to get it done. Kinda weird if he just chose to not work for it after first playing a season down in the AHL to even get a chance to play up here rather than going to the KHL for the big cash. Although, I doubt you even really ever "pulled for him".

You HOPE he doesn't turn into anything because of two reasons: a) he didn't get it done here and the trade would look too bad (although the trade is a steal already) b) you predicted that he won't even be an NHL player in the future. You've basically seen him play bad not even a full season and you somehow THINK that he will never turn into anything, though at same time he's leading the scoring among rookies in the playoffs.

Fringe NHLer AT BEST? Wow, last time he wasn't even an NHLer. Guess, things we changed. You don't even believe that prediction yourself. Also, I could predict that some star player is just on a hot streak and he suddenly drops out of the NHL without any arguments to back it up. The fact is you don't even know what kinda player the normal Ville Leino is. He proved last year and this post-season that he can play well on this level. He's still a ROOKIE playing his first full year in the NHL, much like Jimmy Howard who is also 25. He's still the best player ever send to the minors and a late bloomer according to Mike Babcock.

The thing is you can't really make predictions like that. Or you can, but no one really has any reasons to believe them.

Your man love is sickening... all of your points are laughable and biased at best... As I've said to you EVERY OTHER TIME - We'll see where he sits at the end of next year...

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

omfg haha

This commercial is not only the most retarded thing I've ever seen, but it's an insult to the Red Wings organization, which had to put up with this idiot Leino who had "NO DRIVE" this season because of his laziness. Leino's drive my ass.

And no I don't care if the Finnish posters here lower my rep because of this post.

[Travis 576]

This commercial is not only the most retarded thing I've ever seen, but it's an insult to the Red Wings organization, which had to put up with this idiot Leino who had "NO DRIVE" this season because of his laziness. Leino's drive my ass.

And no I don't care if the Finnish posters here lower my rep because of this post.

See, I don't know if I take it as a diss towards the Wings. In my opinion it's kind of like saying, "What if Leino hadn't gotten his s*** together?" There's no denying the guy didn't have the drive to do anything but quit on plays and get flattened while he was here. If he didn't have the drive once he was traded to Philly he'd be in the AHL right now.

[Bannedforlife 403]

The East sure does make him look good. To bad it wont stay that way when he plays a Western team.

Word. Let's revisit this thread after the Hawks get done with him...

[Guest Crymson]

The knock on Holland is he doesn't break rules well enough? You are aware he's not *allowed* to "violate" the salary cap, right?

It was a sarcastic comment.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Crymson

[Finnish Wing 110]

Your man love is sickening... all of your points are laughable and biased at best... As I've said to you EVERY OTHER TIME - We'll see where he sits at the end of next year...

The only argument you use is that I'm biased. You probably don't even read the whole post because you can't admit being wrong in anything. I could as well say that you're biased because you hate him.

It's no point trying to argue with you as you do it like children.

And no I don't care if the Finnish posters here lower my rep because of this post.

I'm sorry, I'm not like the majority here who just give you -1 and say you're biased etc. when they can't make valid arguments.

[Reds4Life 51]

I blame Holland. He should have sent Williams to waivers and if he cleared let him stay in GR. Holland dropped the ball with Quincey and now with Leino. I sure hope he does not give Homer a multi-year contract considering his poor health and that he is 37 (I think) years old.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Reds4Life

[Edillac 1]

people are just jealouss,or bitter,or blind,

I say good for him,he showed offensive talent,but he and Babs couldnt make it work,

just hope the Flyers win it this year,not just because of him,Gagne is great,Giroux also

[newfy 695]

People he's playing good for what 12 games? Yeah he got hot when he got put on a line with hartnell and Briere but he's not even noticeable out there.

He had like 7 points in 42 games, is soft as butter and has absolutely no heart. Don't judge him til he actually does something in the league because right now 7 points in 42 games looks pretty s***ty to me.

and Finnish Wing, you obviously didn't watch Leino with Detroit, he sucks and yu've got that finnish hard on going that we see on here so often. The guy has no heart at all.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Hahah, so wrong. You think a player who would work through AHL to be an NHL player at the age of 25 (instead of going to KHL to get paid big time) CHOSE to not work anymore? You know how stupid that even sounds? You all think it was the reason for everything that he didn't work hard or was lazy. It wasn't the reason. It was the result. The actual reason was losing all confidence.

I blame Holland in the first place for trying to replace the missing scoring by getting Leino and Williams rather than either Hudler or Samuelsson. Leino and Williams weren't top6 guys for sure at the start of the season and Kenny knew it. Then came all the injuries and worst-case scenario happened. Guys like those two had to step up while they wasn't ready for it.

You should understand that you don't start working just by snapping your fingers. The loss of confidence is obviously the biggest reason for Leino sucking here and change of scenery fixed that like it many times does. You get a new fresh start. Some of you just don't wanna believe it. It's like you're blaming Leino for us having a bad season or something. I ask it again: is it Campbell's fault that he's way overpaid? Or the GM's?

He hasn't floated around for a single game this post season (although I doubt you've even watched a single game). He was doing all the little things right before the points even started to come. And he's continued doing them. He skates, he fights in the corners, does back-checking and once in a while even hits someone.

I've actually watched plenty. In fact, I believe I've watched all of Philly's games since the first round to be honest. I just don't have the kind of man-love you have for Ville, that's all.

Ville had displayed no effort. This isn't about his ability to score at the clip some fans were thinking/hoping he could. This is about what he did with his opportunities. Players have done plenty more with less, and if you actually watched any Wings games with Leino this season, you'd see that he was by far the softest on the puck and that outside of a few flashes of brilliance, he was an all or nothing player. He would try a cute play, get knocked off the puck and give up.

Saying it makes no sense for a player to come all the way over and not give it their all is true and it does sound stupid, and yet you see it all the time. The game is different here, period. Its not Ville's fault. But what was the problem from day one and was Ville's fault was the apparent lack of "drive". Red Wings fans want effort, at least most that I know of. Look at Helm, Abdelkader, Hudler, Holmstrom, players that aren't the greatest talents in the world but take what they have and break ass to get ahead.

This isn't just a Leino thing. I didn't like Lang when he was here cause he would float. I don't like Bertuzzi most of the time because he is the one with the size and would often prefer to let smaller players like Filppula and Zetterberg go get HIM the puck when it has to be the other way around. Leino was a role-player, he didn't fit the role, didn't show Red Wings management anything that said he was going to eventually fit the role, so he was traded. Both parties are better off and I wish Ville the best. But as Red Wings go, I had the highest hopes for him and saw really no effort what-so-ever when the going got tough.

People he's playing good for what 12 games? Yeah he got hot when he got put on a line with hartnell and Briere but he's not even noticeable out there.

He had like 7 points in 42 games, is soft as butter and has absolutely no heart. Don't judge him til he actually does something in the league because right now 7 points in 42 games looks pretty s***ty to me.

and Finnish Wing, you obviously didn't watch Leino with Detroit, he sucks and yu've got that finnish hard on going that we see on here so often. The guy has no heart at all.

Word.

[Mors 201]

Seriously? The guy did nothing in Detroit, Philly is a totally different team with a different style, get over it.

[Nev 1,085]

See, I don't know if I take it as a diss towards the Wings. In my opinion it's kind of like saying, "What if Leino hadn't gotten his s*** together?" There's no denying the guy didn't have the drive to do anything but quit on plays and get flattened while he was here. If he didn't have the drive once he was traded to Philly he'd be in the AHL right now.

That would be so much more appropriate (and funnier)

[Hockey God 9]

hes doing good now but i dont think he'll carry it into next year

[Broken 16 381]

"What if Leino didn't have drive?"

Lol... that's an easy one to answer. He'll get sent out of town on a rail. We know... we saw it. Lmao!

*Queue the Finnish turds and the neg button*

Edited May 25, 2010 by Broken 16

[Off the Post 11]

I agree with letting him go because at the time he had to do something, but for what he got in return was pretty brutal in my opinion.

[titanium2 867]

Is it wrong to wish that some Mafia member would have injured Williams to the point where he had a permanent spot on LTIR for the season?

[b.shanafan14 733]

Is it wrong to wish that some Mafia member would have injured Williams to the point where he had a permanent spot on LTIR for the season?

Not at all. That was last off-season's biggest facepalm for sure, and turned out even worse than we could have feared. Useless.

[Finnish Wing 110]

People he's playing good for what 12 games? Yeah he got hot when he got put on a line with hartnell and Briere but he's not even noticeable out there.

He had like 7 points in 42 games, is soft as butter and has absolutely no heart. Don't judge him til he actually does something in the league because right now 7 points in 42 games looks pretty s***ty to me.

and Finnish Wing, you obviously didn't watch Leino with Detroit, he sucks and yu've got that finnish hard on going that we see on here so often. The guy has no heart at all.

I did watch Leino in Detroit and he sucked big time this year. Have I said he played well? No, I don't think so.

How can you say one doesn't have heart at all? He maybe didn't have the drive this year here, but you honestly think he just chose to do it that way? Again, kinda weird that he CHOSES to not even try after getting that huge 800k deal here while he could've gotten almost double as that much the year earlier.

Guess the NHL must be an easy league to play in then if you can put up ppg in the playoffs as a rookie with NO HEART and while at the same time being SOFT AS BUTTER! OMG! Hey btw, you could try to go play out there and we see how much heart you've got, because obviously not playing well means you're totally heartless person only after money.

He was good last year while he was up here and he has been great this year's playoffs. The point is you're judging him based only on how he played badly this year in Detroit and nothing else. In other words, you're also biased because you hate him. Im judging him based on his efforts since 2002 including last year and this year's playoffs. Two things you seem to ignore. Also, he's a rookie. You could make that same argument against Howard (who sucked in the playoffs, btw).

Not even noticeable? That's weird. You've probably watched some other guy then. Because these comments tell a different story.

And you say he's good because he's playing on a line with HARTNELL and Briere, huh? You mean THIS Hartnell? You probably have no idea that Hartnell had gone 20 something games without a single goal before he got united with Leino. That guy was taking bad penalties and kinda floating around there like Leino did here this year. I agree that playing with Briere helps, but Briere isn't the one on that line who keeps the play alive and battles in the corners. You could as well say that Backstrom is only good because he's playing with Ovechkin. The fact is Leino is playing on the top6 and he's earned himself. You can see comments from Laviolette and Briere for more information about him.

And like I said, I may be biased, but you're just as biased against him because he's an "ex-girlfriend". I doubt we would hear much negativity about him if we asked around other team's fans. The Leino you see now is closer to the real Leino than what you saw earlier this season. You can deny anything, but it doesn't change the facts. You're probably angry that Leino is still playing and all, but chill man. The trade has been steal for the Flyers already, but no need to be bitter.

I get your man-hate you know, but it's blinding your ability to judge him so I can't take your posts seriously, sorry.

[newfy 695]

I did watch Leino in Detroit and he sucked big time this year. Have I said he played well? No, I don't think so.

How can you say one doesn't have heart at all? He maybe didn't have the drive this year here, but you honestly think he just chose to do it that way? Again, kinda weird that he CHOSES to not even try after getting that huge 800k deal here while he could've gotten almost double as that much the year earlier.

Guess the NHL must be an easy league to play in then if you can put up ppg in the playoffs as a rookie with NO HEART and while at the same time being SOFT AS BUTTER! OMG! Hey btw, you could try to go play out there and we see how much heart you've got, because obviously not playing well means you're totally heartless person only after money.

He was good last year while he was up here and he has been great this year's playoffs. The point is you're judging him based only on how he played badly this year in Detroit and nothing else. In other words, you're also biased because you hate him. Im judging him based on his efforts since 2002 including last year and this year's playoffs. Two things you seem to ignore. Also, he's a rookie. You could make that same argument against Howard (who sucked in the playoffs, btw).

Not even noticeable? That's weird. You've probably watched some other guy then. Because these comments tell a different story.

And you say he's good because he's playing on a line with HARTNELL and Briere, huh? You mean THIS Hartnell? You probably have no idea that Hartnell had gone 20 something games without a single goal before he got united with Leino. That guy was taking bad penalties and kinda floating around there like Leino did here this year. I agree that playing with Briere helps, but Briere isn't the one on that line who keeps the play alive and battles in the corners. You could as well say that Backstrom is only good because he's playing with Ovechkin. The fact is Leino is playing on the top6 and he's earned himself. You can see comments from Laviolette and Briere for more information about him.

And like I said, I may be biased, but you're just as biased against him because he's an "ex-girlfriend". I doubt we would hear much negativity about him if we asked around other team's fans. The Leino you see now is closer to the real Leino than what you saw earlier this season. You can deny anything, but it doesn't change the facts. You're probably angry that Leino is still playing and all, but chill man. The trade has been steal for the Flyers already, but no need to be bitter.

I get your man-hate you know, but it's blinding your ability to judge him so I can't take your posts seriously, sorry.

Heart doesn't mean playing well, it means him saying he doesn't need to go into corners to play the game proves he has no heart. Heart to me means youre willing to go to the dirty places for a goal and will take a hit to make a play.

Floating around the perimeter and not going into corners isn't heart. Say what you want about how I would play but I played at a pretty high level and was always the one getting my nose dirty for the good players. I can't prove it or disprove it though so that point is null.

The guy got hot for a playoff run now we'll see what happens next year. Those comments you pointed out still said he can't skate which he can't.

12 good games doesn't make this a bad deal for Holland, wait and see. He's proven he can play good for a 12 game stretch, he admitted to not wanting to go in corners or anything like that and you still wanna say he has a bunch of heart? Thats dumb

[Finnish Wing 110]

12 good games doesn't make this a bad deal for Holland, wait and see. He's proven he can play good for a 12 game stretch, he admitted to not wanting to go in corners or anything like that and you still wanna say he has a bunch of heart? Thats dumb

Actually this is already a steal for the Flyers even if Leino gets 0 points next year. They probably wouldn't be in the Stanley Cup Finals right now with all the injuries if they hadn't got those points from Leino. They lost basically nothing and got a good 2010 playoff player for 800k. That's a steal IMO.

I'm not saying it was a bad deal for Holland. Kenny did what he had to do. It was obvious that Leino wasn't gonna get it going here anymore. Latendresse needed to move to Minnessota, Jokinen needed to move Carolina and Leino needed to move to Philadelphia.

Where did he say like that? It was a quote on an article from him, him saying that it's not as EASY for him to do all the things player like Helm are good at. There isn't even an audio of that interview. Even one word can make a big difference in quotes like that, and the writers usually edit them a little, especially when it's from a foreign guy. I've said it before and I say it again, that one quote got a bit too much attention here. So, what you're saying there is basically plain wrong, because he didn't said like that and even if he did he certainly isn't playing like that.

And please, PLEASE, don't twist my words. I didn't say anything of how much heart Leino or anyone else has. You can't measure something like that. The only thing I said was that you can't say he has NO heart (which you did). Or, you can say it, but you can't really prove it. Like I said you don't lead the scoring among rookies in the playoffs if you have zero heart.

And then again, this game isn't all about heart. Ian Laperriere probably has more "heart" than Jaromir Jagr, but he will never be nowhere near the player Jagr is. There are bunch of guys there who have natural talent who are better than guys who may have worked harder in some cases. It's only the end result what matters. And the result is that Leino got traded and is now playing in the Stanley Cup Finals. End of story, for now.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I hate it when people talk like they know the game like NHL players by talking about their own credentials.

Give me a break.

[newfy 695]

Actually this is already a steal for the Flyers even if Leino gets 0 points next year. They probably wouldn't be in the Stanley Cup Finals right now with all the injuries if they hadn't got those points from Leino. They lost basically nothing and got a good 2010 playoff player for 800k. That's a steal IMO.

I'm not saying it was a bad deal for Holland. Kenny did what he had to do. It was obvious that Leino wasn't gonna get it going here anymore. Latendresse needed to move to Minnessota, Jokinen needed to move Carolina and Leino needed to move to Philadelphia.

Where did he say like that? It was a quote on an article from him, him saying that it's not as EASY for him to do all the things player like Helm are good at. There isn't even an audio of that interview. Even one word can make a big difference in quotes like that, and the writers usually edit them a little, especially when it's from a foreign guy. I've said it before and I say it again, that one quote got a bit too much attention here. So, what you're saying there is basically plain wrong, because he didn't said like that and even if he did he certainly isn't playing like that.

And please, PLEASE, don't twist my words. I didn't say anything of how much heart Leino or anyone else has. You can't measure something like that. The only thing I said was that you can't say he has NO heart (which you did). Or, you can say it, but you can't really prove it. Like I said you don't lead the scoring among rookies in the playoffs if you have zero heart.

And then again, this game isn't all about heart. Ian Laperriere probably has more "heart" than Jaromir Jagr, but he will never be nowhere near the player Jagr is. There are bunch of guys there who have natural talent who are better than guys who may have worked harder in some cases. It's only the end result what matters. And the result is that Leino got traded and is now playing in the Stanley Cup Finals. End of story, for now.

Jagr is a generational talent. I would rather have Laperriere then Leino anyday not even close.

[Puckpossession 3]

Actually this is already a steal for the Flyers even if Leino gets 0 points next year. They probably wouldn't be in the Stanley Cup Finals right now with all the injuries if they hadn't got those points from Leino. They lost basically nothing and got a good 2010 playoff player for 800k. That's a steal IMO.

I'm not saying it was a bad deal for Holland. Kenny did what he had to do. It was obvious that Leino wasn't gonna get it going here anymore. Latendresse needed to move to Minnessota, Jokinen needed to move Carolina and Leino needed to move to Philadelphia.

Where did he say like that? It was a quote on an article from him, him saying that it's not as EASY for him to do all the things player like Helm are good at. There isn't even an audio of that interview. Even one word can make a big difference in quotes like that, and the writers usually edit them a little, especially when it's from a foreign guy. I've said it before and I say it again, that one quote got a bit too much attention here. So, what you're saying there is basically plain wrong, because he didn't said like that and even if he did he certainly isn't playing like that.

And please, PLEASE, don't twist my words. I didn't say anything of how much heart Leino or anyone else has. You can't measure something like that. The only thing I said was that you can't say he has NO heart (which you did). Or, you can say it, but you can't really prove it. Like I said you don't lead the scoring among rookies in the playoffs if you have zero heart.

And then again, this game isn't all about heart. Ian Laperriere probably has more "heart" than Jaromir Jagr, but he will never be nowhere near the player Jagr is. There are bunch of guys there who have natural talent who are better than guys who may have worked harder in some cases. It's only the end result what matters. And the result is that Leino got traded and is now playing in the Stanley Cup Finals. End of story, for now.

Jagr has natural talent but the guy did work hard, ian lapariare knows for him to be effective he has to lay it all on the line or else he wont be in the nhl, he doesnt have the ability to stay in the nhl purely on skill, you have no proof that lappy works harder than jagr, NONE. Jagr has the luxury of being able to use skill, and he doesnt have to run around throwing his weight around and blocking shots when other players protect him and do it for him.

Leino is simply benefiting off other players going hard and getting him the puck, he hasn't really dominated much at all, he cant play in a fast pace puck possesion system like detroit because he is LAZY, doesnt want to take that extra effort to be on a team that loves cycling the puck up and down, but he has the skill to.

Leino didnt change over night just from going to philly, why should he go in the corners in work hard when mostly every other guy on philly wouldnt hesitate.

[soonboomer 31]

The knock on Holland is he doesn't break rules well enough? You are aware he's not *allowed* to "violate" the salary cap, right?

serious?

[Buppy 1,720]

Heart doesn't mean playing well, it means him saying he doesn't need to go into corners to play the game proves he has no heart. Heart to me means youre willing to go to the dirty places for a goal and will take a hit to make a play.

Floating around the perimeter and not going into corners isn't heart. Say what you want about how I would play but I played at a pretty high level and was always the one getting my nose dirty for the good players. I can't prove it or disprove it though so that point is null.

The guy got hot for a playoff run now we'll see what happens next year. Those comments you pointed out still said he can't skate which he can't.

12 good games doesn't make this a bad deal for Holland, wait and see. He's proven he can play good for a 12 game stretch, he admitted to not wanting to go in corners or anything like that and you still wanna say he has a bunch of heart? Thats dumb

Except he never said that. It was in reference to breaking out of his slump and he said something akin to 'I just need to score'. He never said or insinuated that he didn't need to work hard or play the tough areas. Just that those things weren't what he needed to get out of his funk. He said something that hundreds of other slumping players have said. You hear it all the time that a player just 'needs to get that first one' to break the ice, get the confidence back, etc.

Remember, Leino did at times earn some praise for his work while here. From Babs, Flip, Hank. It wasn't until January that Babs started to really get down on him.

He may not be the hardest worker ever, but I think more than that was just that he isn't particularly good at doing that kind of stuff. He's not that big or strong, and not a great skater. He was doing all that stuff early on, but just getting beat more often than not. Then I think he totally lost his confidence, and didn't respond well to the criticism. Seems like maybe he even got a little depressed. Perhaps he knew he was going to be shipped out when we got healthy and gave up. Certainly not a good way to respond, but I don't think it makes him a bad player or person. Little immature maybe, but that's the worst I'd say.

Now to defend Holland.

I blame Holland in the first place for trying to replace the missing scoring by getting Leino and Williams rather than either Hudler or Samuelsson. Leino and Williams weren't top6 guys for sure at the start of the season and Kenny knew it. Then came all the injuries and worst-case scenario happened. Guys like those two had to step up while they wasn't ready for it.

Are you suggesting that we never should have had Leino in the first place? Even if you are, both of them together wouldn't have been enough to keep either of Sammy or Hudler (maybe Sammy would have taken a little less, who knows), and it would have left us a player short.

Secondly, Leino and Willy were not supposed to be top 6 forwards. No one ever expected them to be. They were supposed to give us secondary scoring from the third line. They were only part of replacing some of the scoring lost. It was actually looking pretty good at first, up until Flip got hurt really. And when the injuries hit, we didn't have any other options. No, Leino wasn't ready, but what else were we supposed to do? Williams was one of the injuries, so he wasn't ever expected to step up.

And speaking of Williams... He scored 19 goals and 47 points the prior season. He knew the system (and had scored 58 points here only a few years ago). He was the RH shot Babs wanted for the 2nd PP unit. He was available at a price we could afford.

We can speculate all we want about who might have been a better pickup, but Willy was pretty much the only one out there who looked like he could fill what we were looking for. He was a better fit to play Flip and Leino than he was with the likes of Miller and Cleary or Bert. Who can say how he would have fared had he and Flip not been hurt? We can say in hindsight that we weren't looking for the right things, or we made the wrong choice, but we don't know that anything would have been any better.

Likewise, we can say now that we should have gotten rid of Willy instead of Leino, but when Willy came back from his injury he was playing pretty decent. (Still no results, but he wasn't playing bad.) He didn't really start to look bad until after the Olympics. And again, who can say if Leino would have ever improved if he had stayed?

The only thing that I wish could have happened differently was Maltby's surgery. He had to do that because we were still a hair over the cap when Lilja came back. I believe his salary was enough that if he had gotten the surgery sooner, we could have kept Leino and still been compliant when everyone was healthy. But I can't blame Kenny for that, since I don't think it was a sure thing at the time that Lilja was coming back.