Who would be a superstar?

[Joseph Franks 17]

The topic of Leino and his sudden fame in Philly got me to thinking. The Detroit roster has a lot of talent, but unlike many other teams each player is intricately placed into a role. Forwards are expected to play defensively, and so on.

Out of our roster, who would go on to super stardom if they were traded to another team. We'll say...someone like Toronto, someone near the bottom of the league. And who do you think would flop if removed from Detroit's system?

Personally...I think Datsyuk and Zetterberg would both go on to hit 100+ Point seasons, if put in the right offensive roles.

Franzen could be a veritable powerhouse for a lot of clubs struggling to generate offense. Would not be surprised to see him net 70+ points on some teams.

I Think honestly, Holmstrom would suffer a decline if he went somewhere else. Too much about our system plays into his work in front of the net, and we've been doing it for years.

Filpula (Never can remember how to spell it) would likely do well, probably even centering a first line for some of the teams out there....2nd line on most others.

Take a few more seasons to watch Howard develop, but despite Detroit's fairly decent defense....it just wasn't that great this year. Put him behind a team like New Jersey, and he'd probably post some very impressive numbers.

Just a few thoughts....

[eva unit zero 271]

The topic of Leino and his sudden fame in Philly got me to thinking. The Detroit roster has a lot of talent, but unlike many other teams each player is intricately placed into a role. Forwards are expected to play defensively, and so on.

Out of our roster, who would go on to super stardom if they were traded to another team. We'll say...someone like Toronto, someone near the bottom of the league. And who do you think would flop if removed from Detroit's system?

Personally...I think Datsyuk and Zetterberg would both go on to hit 100+ Point seasons, if put in the right offensive roles.

Franzen could be a veritable powerhouse for a lot of clubs struggling to generate offense. Would not be surprised to see him net 70+ points on some teams.

I Think honestly, Holmstrom would suffer a decline if he went somewhere else. Too much about our system plays into his work in front of the net, and we've been doing it for years.

Filpula (Never can remember how to spell it) would likely do well, probably even centering a first line for some of the teams out there....2nd line on most others.

Take a few more seasons to watch Howard develop, but despite Detroit's fairly decent defense....it just wasn't that great this year. Put him behind a team like New Jersey, and he'd probably post some very impressive numbers.

Just a few thoughts....

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom are superstars in Detroit and would be elsewhere. Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Rafalski, and Kronwall could be if they were in the right spot with the right kind of supporting players. For example, Rafalski in Washington in Mike Green's slot would be a perennial Norris nominee. Kronwall could be a superstar on most teams and will be considered such in Detroit in a couple seasons. Put Hudler centering a couple of big, physical wingers with decent finishing ability (think Clowe-esque) and he'd be considered one of the best centers in the league.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Put Hudler centering a couple of big, physical wingers with decent finishing ability (think Clowe-esque) and he'd be considered one of the best centers in the league.[/font]

Stop being modest Eva, like he isn't already.

[Puckpossession 3]

The topic of Leino and his sudden fame in Philly got me to thinking. The Detroit roster has a lot of talent, but unlike many other teams each player is intricately placed into a role. Forwards are expected to play defensively, and so on.

Out of our roster, who would go on to super stardom if they were traded to another team. We'll say...someone like Toronto, someone near the bottom of the league. And who do you think would flop if removed from Detroit's system?

Personally...I think Datsyuk and Zetterberg would both go on to hit 100+ Point seasons, if put in the right offensive roles.

Franzen could be a veritable powerhouse for a lot of clubs struggling to generate offense. Would not be surprised to see him net 70+ points on some teams.

I Think honestly, Holmstrom would suffer a decline if he went somewhere else. Too much about our system plays into his work in front of the net, and we've been doing it for years.

Filpula (Never can remember how to spell it) would likely do well, probably even centering a first line for some of the teams out there....2nd line on most others.

Take a few more seasons to watch Howard develop, but despite Detroit's fairly decent defense....it just wasn't that great this year. Put him behind a team like New Jersey, and he'd probably post some very impressive numbers.

Just a few thoughts....

To bad that datsyuk and zetterberg aren't going to throw defense out the door....... And this post makes it sounds like Brodeur is only benefiting from New Jerseys system, if anything they leave him out to dry every playoff.

[KDDRWINGS1 9]

Put Hudler centering a couple of big, physical wingers with decent finishing ability (think Clowe-esque) and he'd be considered one of the best centers in the league.

Kind of like him centering Cleary and Bertuzzi next season? May not be a superstar line but with those two healthy they can add the third line scoring we missed this past season. I'm not very excited about relying on an undersized center who left the team for cash but as a third line player I don't mind him.

Edited May 30, 2010 by KDDRWINGS1

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Hudler would suck ass at center.

A center is supposed to be responsible defensively, and he isn't.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hudler would suck ass at center.

A center is supposed to be responsible defensively, and he isn't.

Don't you read? Hudler is quantifiably above average defensively. Eva says so, and thus it must be true.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Lebda. He'd be pretty much Mike Green, except with the ability to play defence. Oh and he's fast too.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler would suck ass at center.

A center is supposed to be responsible defensively, and he isn't.

Joe Thornton. Anze Kopitar. Evgeni Malkin. Sidney Crosby. Eric Staal. Vincent Lecavalier. Nik Antropov. Antoine Vermette. Scott Gomez. Jason Spezza. Mike Ribiero. Some of these guys are downright atrocious defensively, some are basically average. None are "responsible" as you quantify it, because none are better than Hudler defensively, at least not significantly, and most are MUCH worse than Hudler defensively.

Yes, the center position is typically the defensive lock on a line. But not by any means always. Remember Gretzky's regular lines in Edmonton? Semenko/Gretzky/Kurri. Anderson/Gretzky/Kurri. Tikkanen/Gretzky/Kurri. Semenko/Gretzky/Anderson. That last one is the only one that doesn't include a Selke winner, and Anderson was no slouch defensively. Kurri and Tikkanen were Selke contenders their entire careers. Kurri continued on and was Gretzky's winger in LA as well. Tikkanen rejoined Gretzky on a line briefly in 1995-96. After signing with the New York Rangers that summer, Gretzky would play on the second line, with Luc Robitaille again on his wing, but he would also get one of the league's better defensive specilists in Niklas Sundstrom on the other side.

So what's wrong with an excellent playmaking center if one of his wingers can play the lock-down role effectively? Nothing if he does his job well.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Joe Thornton. Anze Kopitar. Evgeni Malkin. Sidney Crosby. Eric Staal. Vincent Lecavalier. Nik Antropov. Antoine Vermette. Scott Gomez. Jason Spezza. Mike Ribiero. Some of these guys are downright atrocious defensively, some are basically average. None are "responsible" as you quantify it, because none are better than Hudler defensively, at least not significantly, and most are MUCH worse than Hudler defensively.

Yes, the center position is typically the defensive lock on a line. But not by any means always. Remember Gretzky's regular lines in Edmonton? Semenko/Gretzky/Kurri. Anderson/Gretzky/Kurri. Tikkanen/Gretzky/Kurri. Semenko/Gretzky/Anderson. That last one is the only one that doesn't include a Selke winner, and Anderson was no slouch defensively. Kurri and Tikkanen were Selke contenders their entire careers. Kurri continued on and was Gretzky's winger in LA as well. Tikkanen rejoined Gretzky on a line briefly in 1995-96. After signing with the New York Rangers that summer, Gretzky would play on the second line, with Luc Robitaille again on his wing, but he would also get one of the league's better defensive specilists in Niklas Sundstrom on the other side.

So what's wrong with an excellent playmaking center if one of his wingers can play the lock-down role effectively? Nothing if he does his job well.

We have better centers than him and are loaded at that position.

Besides, he's not in the same class of player offensively as most of the guys you mentioned. A superstar center can get away with being bad defensively. Hudler is not a superstar.

As for guys like Antropov, they're a joke, so let's not compare him to anyone like that. That's not what we need.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Hudler would suck ass at center.

A center is supposed to be responsible defensively, and he isn't.

Think there's still a possibility of trading him?

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hudler is not a superstar.

Good luck convincing Eva of that.

[eva unit zero 271]

We have better centers than him and are loaded at that position.

Besides, he's not in the same class of player offensively as most of the guys you mentioned. A superstar center can get away with being bad defensively. Hudler is not a superstar.

As for guys like Antropov, they're a joke, so let's not compare him to anyone like that. That's not what we need.

Joe Thornton. Anze Kopitar. Evgeni Malkin. Sidney Crosby. Eric Staal. Vincent Lecavalier. Nik Antropov. Antoine Vermette. Scott Gomez. Jason Spezza. Mike Ribiero.

All of those guys play first line time with first line scoring wingers. How would Hudler fare with the same linemates and ice time? I would say he's got more offensive skill than Antropov, Vermette, Gomez, and Ribiero right off the bat. Thornton, Malkin, Crosby are obviously much more productive. So how does Hudler stack up against Kopitar, Staal, Lecavalier, and Spezza? Those guys are all true defensive liabilities, while Hudler is above average defensively; just one of the worst defensive forwards on the WINGS, a team loaded with defensively skilled forwards. If you slotted Hudler in the spot of any of the guys I listed in terms of ice time and linemates, he might just come out average or better on the list.

Edited May 31, 2010 by eva unit zero

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Joe Thornton. Anze Kopitar. Evgeni Malkin. Sidney Crosby. Eric Staal. Vincent Lecavalier. Nik Antropov. Antoine Vermette. Scott Gomez. Jason Spezza. Mike Ribiero.

All of those guys play first line time with first line scoring wingers. How would Hudler fare with the same linemates and ice time? I would say he's got more offensive skill than Antropov, Vermette, Gomez, and Ribiero right off the bat. Thornton, Malkin, Crosby are obviously much more productive. So how does Hudler stack up against Kopitar, Staal, Lecavalier, and Spezza? Those guys are all true defensive liabilities, while Hudler is above average defensively; just one of the worst defensive forwards on the WINGS, a team loaded with defensively skilled forwards. If you slotted Hudler in the spot of any of the guys I listed in terms of ice time and linemates, he might just come out average or better on the list.

Have you actually watched Kopitar the past two seasons? or are you just going by his bad +/- from playing on the young Kings team?

If you slotted Hudler in Kopitar's spot, he'd have to be the number 3 PK'er on the team. I wonder how that would look?

Kopitar wasn't very defensively responsible his first couple seasons, but it's something he's incorporated into his game. He may not be a Selke candidate, but he's definitely not a player I would call a liability. Between Hudler and Kopitar, Hudler is the one to be more worried about defensively. If only for his lack of size and speed.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

hey

can this not turn into a hudler thread?

[eva unit zero 271]

Have you actually watched Kopitar the past two seasons? or are you just going by his bad +/- from playing on the young Kings team?

If you slotted Hudler in Kopitar's spot, he'd have to be the number 3 PK'er on the team. I wonder how that would look?

Kopitar wasn't very defensively responsible his first couple seasons, but it's something he's incorporated into his game. He may not be a Selke candidate, but he's definitely not a player I would call a liability. Between Hudler and Kopitar, Hudler is the one to be more worried about defensively. If only for his lack of size and speed.

Hudler could play on the PK unit for LA. Perhaps he doesn't have Bertuzzi's size or Helm's speed. But seriously, those things do NOT make him a poor defensive player. Just as being small doesn't make him soft.

Furthermore, when did I say Kopitar was bad defensively? I said some of the guys I mentioned were about average, some were downright atrocious. Anze was the #3 PK forward on the 20th best PK team in the league. If you don't think Hudler could play on the second PK unit, you haven't seen HUDLER play very often.

I'm just gonna toss out a few names of some guys who play on PK units who Hudler would be as good or better options than:

Paul Stastny, Cody McLeod, Rick Nash, Antoine Vermette, Patrick O'Sullivan, Scott Gomez, Brian Gionta. That's just a quick list of guys who are in their teams' top four PK forwards who Hudler would be a better PK option than IMO.

The attitude on this board is basically "Hudler isn't anywhere near as good as Datsyuk or Zetterberg defensively, and he's nowhere near what Fedorov or Yzerman did either. He's obviously piss poor and a defensive liability." when in truth he's better than average.

It's why grading on a curve in school is stupid. What if you have a class full of kids with 130 IQs who all ace most tests and courses, and another school has a class full of kids with IQs ranging from 50 to 100. The smartest kids in the 'stupid' school will have a much better GPA than most of the kids in the 'smart' school if you grade on a curve, even though every kid in the smart school is much smarter than the smartest in the 'stupid' school.

Being above average defensively on a team full of better defensive players doesn't mean you are bad defensively. It just means you aren't as good defensively as your teammates. If you're traded to a team that's got piss-poor defensive players, you'll shine defensively even if you don't change your play one bit. It's a matter of contrast. Which is brighter, 90% gray on 80% gray, or 80% gray on black? Which APPEARS brighter?

[cjm502 165]

hey

can this not turn into a hudler thread?

Shhhhhh, its getting good.

[Puckpossession 3]

Hudler could play on the PK unit for LA. Perhaps he doesn't have Bertuzzi's size or Helm's speed. But seriously, those things do NOT make him a poor defensive player. Just as being small doesn't make him soft.

Furthermore, when did I say Kopitar was bad defensively? I said some of the guys I mentioned were about average, some were downright atrocious. Anze was the #3 PK forward on the 20th best PK team in the league. If you don't think Hudler could play on the second PK unit, you haven't seen HUDLER play very often.

I'm just gonna toss out a few names of some guys who play on PK units who Hudler would be as good or better options than:

Paul Stastny, Cody McLeod, Rick Nash, Antoine Vermette, Patrick O'Sullivan, Scott Gomez, Brian Gionta. That's just a quick list of guys who are in their teams' top four PK forwards who Hudler would be a better PK option than IMO.

The attitude on this board is basically "Hudler isn't anywhere near as good as Datsyuk or Zetterberg defensively, and he's nowhere near what Fedorov or Yzerman did either. He's obviously piss poor and a defensive liability." when in truth he's better than average.

It's why grading on a curve in school is stupid. What if you have a class full of kids with 130 IQs who all ace most tests and courses, and another school has a class full of kids with IQs ranging from 50 to 100. The smartest kids in the 'stupid' school will have a much better GPA than most of the kids in the 'smart' school if you grade on a curve, even though every kid in the smart school is much smarter than the smartest in the 'stupid' school.

Being above average defensively on a team full of better defensive players doesn't mean you are bad defensively. It just means you aren't as good defensively as your teammates. If you're traded to a team that's got piss-poor defensive players, you'll shine defensively even if you don't change your play one bit. It's a matter of contrast. Which is brighter, 90% gray on 80% gray, or 80% gray on black? Which APPEARS brighter?

Stop acting like hudlers amazing, he really isnt. When you are a star player , the other players around you should be the ones who are lucky to play with you, you should be the one creating no matter what talent.

You say that if hudler had better line mates he would do very well, if hudler cant do that without those players than he doesn't deserve it. He hasn't gotten big minutes because he hasn't proven hes worthy on a 5 on 5 basis, on the powerplay he is money though.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Ville Leino... ohh... wait...

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Furthermore, when did I say Kopitar was bad defensively? I said some of the guys I mentioned were about average, some were downright atrocious. Anze was the #3 PK forward on the 20th best PK team in the league.

So how does Hudler stack up against Kopitar, Staal, Lecavalier, and Spezza? Those guys are all true defensive liabilities, while Hudler is above average defensively;

Sound familiar?

I'm not talking about the attitude on this board. I'm talking about Kopitar not being bad defensively, and him being less of a liability than Hudler is.

I'm not saying Hudler is useless or soft, but to essentially call him better than Kopitar defensively is inaccurate.

Edited May 31, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[eva unit zero 271]

Sound familiar?

I'm not talking about the attitude on this board. I'm talking about Kopitar not being bad defensively, and him being less of a liability than Hudler is.

I'm not saying Hudler is useless or soft, but to essentially call him better than Kopitar defensively is inaccurate.

Perhaps I understated Kopitar's defensive abilities. But Hudler is still the better defensive player. He was improving his defense consistently while with the Wings, and was better defensively than Kopitar then. There's no reason to suspect that Kopitar suddenly leaped past Hudler in that aspect.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

so hudler is the better defensive player because he was the better defensive player "then"?

[eva unit zero 271]

so hudler is the better defensive player because he was the better defensive player "then"?

When "then" is two seasons ago and Kopitar has not improved past the defensive skill of Hudler "then", it would either take regression by Hudler for Kopitar to be better, or a sudden leap in defensive skill.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

When "then" is two seasons ago and Kopitar has not improved past the defensive skill of Hudler "then", it would either take regression by Hudler for Kopitar to be better, or a sudden leap in defensive skill.

Since when are you an expert on all things Kopitar?

Hudler, while he was here, spent as much if not more time in coaches' dog houses than any other Wing. My guess is it had something to do with his super duper defensive game and work ethic. (although I will admit you are correct that he did work on it. which is like saying he went from crummy to not quite as bad)

Like always, you've got your hard on (like the one you have for Z over Datsyuk) for Hudler and you just think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

You know what, Hudler has no business even being mentioned with the likes of guys like Kopitar, Staal and Lecavalier.

You're the only person...and I stress ONLY on this planet that would think Jiri freaking Hudler could be a #1 center in the National Hockey League.

Your delusions get grander and grander with each passing year.

Hudler is imo super talented, has great offensive instincts and does a lot with his limited time on the ice. However, he is not so great as to warrant being discussed as a potential top line centerman or that he even has any business being mentioned with 90% of the guys you mentioned.

Edited June 1, 2010 by GordieSid&Ted

[eva unit zero 271]

Since when are you an expert on all things Kopitar?

Hudler, while he was here, spent as much if not more time in coaches' dog houses than any other Wing. My guess is it had something to do with his super duper defensive game and work ethic. (although I will admit you are correct that he did work on it. which is like saying he went from s***ty to not quite as s***ty)

Like always, you've got your hard on (like the one you have for Z over Datsyuk) for Hudler and you just think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

You know what, Hudler has no business even being mentioned with the likes of guys like Kopitar, Staal and Lecavalier.

You're the only person...and I stress ONLY on this planet that would think Jiri freaking Hudler could be a #1 center in the National Hockey League.

Your delusions get grander and grander with each passing year.

Hudler is imo super talented, has great offensive instincts and does a lot with his limited time on the ice. However, he is not so great as to warrant being discussed as a potential top line centerman or that he even has any business being mentioned with 90% of the guys you mentioned.

I didn't say he would be a better overall player than any of them. I was challenged with the point that centers are supposed to be extremely responsible defensively. I used them as examples of top-line centers who range from slightly above average to well below average defensively. Am I wrong? Do those players not fall into that category?

As I said, put Hudler between two physical wingers who have capable shots and you'll have a very good line. I guess my question is... how can you consider guys like Scott Gomez or Antoine Vermette top line centers if you can't consider Hudler one?