Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Improving by upgrading Todd Bertuzzi


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#21 cusimano_brothers

cusimano_brothers

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,428 posts
  • Location:Niagara Falls, ON

Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:00 PM

...
resign
...
...
resign
...


I know of one person who might be looking for you. Please get someone to take your calls for a while.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#22 mjlegend

mjlegend

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,903 posts
  • Location:Moose Jaw, SK

Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:05 PM

I've seen a lot of meh mixed in with some good for Ladd. I definitely think someone with a lot of cap room gives him an offer he can't refuse, thinking he's the next Umberger. I'd go for up to $1.7/year for two years to Ladd before bowing out to a Florida or Atlanta when the bidding gets crazy.

Given his advanced age and injury history, it would be irresponsible of the Wings to give Bertuzzi anything for term beyond one year. People pointing out Bert's points total in the playoffs should remember he got five of them in one night (one of them being the goal where he stood near front of the net and Franzen's shot grazed his stick) and didn't exactly light it up most nights.

With Bert you get limited speed, reputation penalty calls and a static skill set. He's either in the top six forwards or a liability, or sometimes both. Ladd is miles faster, a better shooter and does have potential to get better. I definitely think someone of Ladd's skill set would excel in the Wings system, as it has to some extent in the Hawks system.

#23 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:28 PM

I still don't understand the hate for Bertuzzi. And if he keeps playing like he did this season, I never will.

I think it's when he's off, he's REALLY off and it's hard not to notice. That and his penchant for penalties sometimes, though not always entirely fair and probably due to reputation.

I'm all for him coming back. I highly doubt it would be for more than he made this year (and if it was I don't see it being much more), and I can put up with his brainfarts every now and then because he's shown he can still contribute on the stat sheet and is learning to park his keester in front of the net now.

#24 Mors

Mors

    The Red Death

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,989 posts

Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:30 PM

I still don't understand the hate for Bertuzzi. And if he keeps playing like he did this season, I never will.


Hopefully once Bert is signed in the next month or two these threads will stop appearing.

#25 Nhurdi

Nhurdi

    #16

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 738 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, B.C.

Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:11 PM

You guys do realize that Bertuzzi was probably the best value on the entire team last year except for Howard right? I don't think we got as much production for cap hit out of any other skater on the roster, yet Bertuzzi is the one that needs to go?



According to Cap Geek's bargain hunter Bertuzzi was #4 for bargain on the team.

Wanna know who was first.

Patrick Eaves for a mere $22,727 per point.
Daren Helm was second, $24,977 per point.
Drew Miller was third, $27,632 per point.
Bert in fourth, $34,091 per point.

Any ways check it out as it's a pretty cool page.

http://www.capgeek.c...gain_hunter.php

#26 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

Bring Back The Bruise Bros

    RIP Probie

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,552 posts

Posted 31 May 2010 - 10:50 PM

I've seen a lot of meh mixed in with some good for Ladd. I definitely think someone with a lot of cap room gives him an offer he can't refuse, thinking he's the next Umberger. I'd go for up to $1.7/year for two years to Ladd before bowing out to a Florida or Atlanta when the bidding gets crazy.

Given his advanced age and injury history, it would be irresponsible of the Wings to give Bertuzzi anything for term beyond one year. People pointing out Bert's points total in the playoffs should remember he got five of them in one night (one of them being the goal where he stood near front of the net and Franzen's shot grazed his stick) and didn't exactly light it up most nights.

With Bert you get limited speed, reputation penalty calls and a static skill set. He's either in the top six forwards or a liability, or sometimes both. Ladd is miles faster, a better shooter and does have potential to get better. I definitely think someone of Ladd's skill set would excel in the Wings system, as it has to some extent in the Hawks system.

Bert wouldn't hurt a fly.Someone that will play hard on both ends of the ice,finish checks,and have 2 hands on the stick,decreasing bulls*** turnovers,would be excellent.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#27 NotTooAbby

NotTooAbby

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 75 posts
  • Location:Born/Raised: St. Clair Shores Live/Work: Dallas

Posted 01 June 2010 - 02:13 AM

look into every option to improve this team? but i am le tired.



lol...damn that is a sweet earth



Bertuz for less than 2 mil is a decent deal. it pains me to say, but unless we can get someone better for cheaper or the same price, its Tuz

#28 mjtm77

mjtm77

    mjtm77

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 962 posts

Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:02 AM

worst thread ever...
Posted Image

#29 stevkrause

stevkrause

    Legend

  • Bronze Booster
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:08 AM

lol...damn that is a sweet earth



Bertuz for less than 2 mil is a decent deal. it pains me to say, but unless we can get someone better for cheaper or the same price, its Tuz

People seem to forget that he only made 1.5... that is an INSANE bargain for what he gave us, now if they want to spend that 1.5 + other cap space to get something more, fine... but for that price... I'd take him over anything else we can get at 1.5...

oh... and... HO'KAY

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#30 dobbles

dobbles

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 864 posts
  • Location:Tulsa, OK

Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:58 AM

I still don't understand the hate for Bertuzzi. And if he keeps playing like he did this season, I never will.


I still don't understand who in this thread is even hating on Bertuzzi? Half the posts support him and want him back, and the other half think his negatives (penalties, lazy defense, streaky play) outweigh his positives (low salary, decent production, big body). All that is occurring is discussion on the value of a player and if folks think he would be good to bring back. Heck there are more posts dissecting Andrew Ladd I think than Bertuzzi at this point in the thread.

I realize that lots don't like Bertuzzi. However, the incessant whining about how much everyone hates him often occurs more than the hate itself.

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#31 Mors

Mors

    The Red Death

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,989 posts

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:32 PM

I still don't understand who in this thread is even hating on Bertuzzi? Half the posts support him and want him back, and the other half think his negatives (penalties, lazy defense, streaky play) outweigh his positives (low salary, decent production, big body). All that is occurring is discussion on the value of a player and if folks think he would be good to bring back. Heck there are more posts dissecting Andrew Ladd I think than Bertuzzi at this point in the thread.

I realize that lots don't like Bertuzzi. However, the incessant whining about how much everyone hates him often occurs more than the hate itself.


I think the idea that this is "hate" stems from the many posts that try to discount Bertuzzi's scoring and contribution. It's always "well he got 12 points in the playoffs, but those were just redirects" or "those points were caused by someone else' effort" as if anyone in the same position would have done the same.

If people want to pretend that you could stick Williams on the 2nd line with Franzen and Zetterberg and he'd put up the same totals as Bert, they can, but that's delusional and usually comes down to someone having a personal problem with Bertuzzi being on the team that they're dancing around.

#32 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,709 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:54 PM

You can't beat his productivity-per-caphit as a top six forward today. Especially if he's willing to take a paycut like he said.

#33 HankthaTank

HankthaTank

    3rd Line Center

  • Silver Booster
  • 4,815 posts
  • Location:Warren, MI

Posted 01 June 2010 - 01:38 PM

I hacked on Bert a good portion of the season. Silenced me a tad when he went on that goal scoring binge when everyone was hurt. Then I spoke up again when he seemingly disappeared again for the rest of the year. They slot him with Mule and Hank and then bang! He is a stud again. I don't know what to think of this guy but I do know that if he can continue to drive that net we will need him out there. Thats really the only time he looks like he belongs out there.
TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED.

#34 Nhurdi

Nhurdi

    #16

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 738 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, B.C.

Posted 01 June 2010 - 05:04 PM

You can't beat his productivity-per-caphit as a top six forward today. Especially if he's willing to take a paycut like he said.


Actually you can, Rich Peverly played on the second line for Atlanta. He was paid $487,500 and got 22g, 33a for 55pts. Also Afinogenov on Atlanta played on the same line, made $800k and got 24g, 37a for 61pts.

Thats just two but i'm sure I can find more.

Granted I think he was a good deal for 1.5 million and won't deny that. But it all comes down to cost and what he does on the team. PK, PP and intangibles.

#35 CaliWingsNut

CaliWingsNut

    PeeWee Bettman

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,744 posts
  • Location:Sonoma County, CA

Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:41 PM

I don't like Bert...

Sure he may have been a good deal $ wise for the points over the season. However, I'm unsure it's really a good bargain over all. Between those scoring streaks he had this season, are many weeks of turnovers, bad penalties, and poor stick handling. He's not nearly as physical as he should be.

His 09-10 +/- is -7.

Counting points is one thing but you aren't subtracting what he's costing.

Figures don't lie, but liars sure figure. - Mark Twain


#36 13dangledangle

13dangledangle

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,773 posts
  • Location:Port Hope, Ont.

Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:43 PM

I love Bert and always have, and at 36 he's not looking at anything long term, and unless we could land an Afinogenov or a #2 pick I say Keep him. Him paired with Franzen and Flip make an awesome 2nd line, and enables us to pair Z&D back together :)

Edited by 13dangledangle, 02 June 2010 - 06:44 PM.

....Ladies and Gentlemen Jimmy "F%$*ing" Howard.

#37 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,943 posts

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:36 PM

I think the idea that this is "hate" stems from the many posts that try to discount Bertuzzi's scoring and contribution. It's always "well he got 12 points in the playoffs, but those were just redirects" or "those points were caused by someone else' effort" as if anyone in the same position would have done the same.

If people want to pretend that you could stick Williams on the 2nd line with Franzen and Zetterberg and he'd put up the same totals as Bert, they can, but that's delusional and usually comes down to someone having a personal problem with Bertuzzi being on the team that they're dancing around.


I won't dance around anything. I hate the idea of Bert coming back. It's not a personal problem with Bertuzzi so much as a problem with the fact that Bertuzzi isn't very good. Bargain or not, 18 goals and 44 points in 82 games, playing on the top lines with Pav or Hank, with a lot of PP time is simply not very good. And he'll be a year older. We would be lucky if he can match what he did this year, much less improve as some people expect. More likely he'll miss 1/4 of the season injured, and put up 30ish points.

And I would argue that Bert's playoff numbers were inflated due to the play of his linemates. He scored almost half his points in one game, which happened to be a game where Franzen went nuts. Maybe not 'anyone' could have picked up 5 points in that game, but you certainly can't suggest that Franzen's play wasn't a factor (or Nabakov's/the Sharks for that matter). Likewise, in the first round it wasn't Bert's play that had people raving. It was Hank and Flip.

Bargain, bargain, bargain. That's all anyone can ever say to defend Bert. To which I respond, 'So what?'. We don't need a bargain. We need someone who can play a real role on this team. Bert isn't good enough for the top 6. We can't afford good enough linemates to make him effective on the third line. Someone suggested taking Bert's pay combined with some free cap space to get an upgrade. In a sense, we already did that by bringing back Hudler. We have a decent top 6.

Now we need a bottom 6 that can be effective in some kind of role. Helm, Abby, Eaves, Miller, Cleary can all contribute. Draper and Ritola maybe. But they need a boost. Maybe an upgrade to Miller, and maybe a 14th forward that will free us from reliance on Draper and Ritola. And even though our options are limited, a solid #5 defensemen would sure be nice. Any or all of that would be better for the team than a slow, old, mediocre, has-been like Bert. Bargain or not.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users