rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Kenny isn't doing his job then, 1-2million extra from this deal could have been the difference between a cup and 1st/2nd round exit. It's just that simple eh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Kenny isn't doing his job then, 1-2million extra from this deal could have been the difference between a cup and 1st/2nd round exit. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... Because the other team possibly playing better in a series regardless of personnel, bad breaks or a bad call has nothing to do with stuff like that either. Please explain to us how Holland isn't doing his job by bringing one of his best employees, and one of the best employees in an industry for the past 2 decade, back FOR LESS MONEY. I think we'd love to hear this explanation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) It's just that simple eh? FO SHIZZLE MA NIZZLE I'm in no position really to question kenny's ability because he got the hardware to back it up, but a GM can always become better, no one is the complete package, what about being aggresive, take more risks, push the players more to make them sign for EVEN less.. doesn't wanna trade because he wants a pick in every round, stuff like that... And what about this loyalty thing, getting out of hand, keeping expired players like draper, maltby, osgood... no other GM would have kept them last season.. well maybe osgood but after his showing he would have been shipped out.. some descisions he make... you just start to wonder how the hell is he thinking.... Edited June 2, 2010 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladdy16 2,154 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 This thread is perilously close to being pulled for sheer lunacy. No wonder the rest of the NHL fanbase accuses us of being spoiled. State your opinion and move on. The bickering back and forth that Lids should have taken less and has cost us the Cup because he didn't must stop. Mike Ilitch owns this team and thank God he does. Hands down the best owner in the business. Ken Holland runs this team. We have players consistently taking less than market value because of these men and the environment they perpetuate. Players are loyal to the Wings because the Wings are loyal to them. Remember that. 1 MidMichSteve reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... Because the other team possibly playing better in a series regardless of personnel, bad breaks or a bad call has nothing to do with stuff like that either. Please explain to us how Holland isn't doing his job by bringing one of his best employees, and one of the best employees in an industry for the past 2 decade, back FOR LESS MONEY. I think we'd love to hear this explanation. Had lidstrom scored 70-80pts, been a finalist/won for/the norris and played lights out of course this 6.2 contract would have been amazing, but his 49pts, no nomination, half of the plus-minus from some of the previous seasons, he could never have asked for 7.45 and he knows it, and he might even decline more this upcoming season... 6.2 is sort of an absolut max, a 5M would have looked much better based on the stats he had the season that just ended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Kenny isn't doing his job then, 1-2million extra from this deal could have been the difference between a cup and 1st/2nd round exit. If all credibility wasn't lost before, it certainly is now. Had lidstrom scored 70-80pts, been a finalist/won for/the norris and played lights out of course this 6.2 contract would have been amazing, but his 49pts, no nomination, half of the plus-minus from some of the previous seasons, he could never have asked for 7.45 and he knows it, and he might even decline more this upcoming season... 6.2 is sort of an absolut max, a 5M would have looked much better based on the stats he had the season that just ended. For the millionth time, have you ever thought of factoring in the fact that Detroit was playing with $31 million worth of players on December 23rd last year? Did the fact that his numbers increased to normal as the team became an NHL calibre club and not the Griffins as the season progressed completely escape you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Had lidstrom scored 70-80pts, been a finalist/won for/the norris and played lights out of course this 6.2 contract would have been amazing, but his 49pts, no nomination, half of the plus-minus from some of the previous seasons, he could never have asked for 7.45 and he knows it, and he might even decline more this upcoming season... 6.2 is sort of an absolut max, a 5M would have looked much better based on the stats he had the season that just ended. I will repeat... HE SIGNED HIM FOR LESS MONEY. You said you aren't in positon to question him. Stop trying so hard to do so and save some brain cells. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) If all credibility wasn't lost before, it certainly is now. For the millionth time, have you ever thought of factoring in the fact that Detroit was playing with $31 million worth of players on December 23rd last year? Did the fact that his numbers increased to normal as the team became an NHL calibre club and not the Griffins as the season progressed completely escape you? That's a Horton/Frolov/Plekanec player playing top6mins, pp, 30goals etc etc instead of a 900k adam burish or something, think about it..makes a huge difference in the playoffs having more scoring power, like chicago has atm. Edited June 2, 2010 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 I will repeat... HE SIGNED HIM FOR LESS MONEY. You said you aren't in positon to question him. Stop trying so hard to do so and save some brain cells. I really don't know why anyone even wastes their time reading or replying to mindfly's posts at this point... he's clearly only here to get under peoples skin... 1 Veery reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aussie_Wing 354 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Was reading his interview with the swedish news "- I am pleased, even though I probably could have pushed further in the salary negotiations, says Lidstrom" Errhm does that mean he think he could/should have gotten more but settled for this.. like he think this "discount" is really massive for him? I think it's sensible if I just make no further comments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 That's a Horton/Frolov/Plekanec player playing top6mins, pp, 30goals etc etc instead of a 900k adam burish or something, think about it..makes a huge difference in the playoffs having more scoring power, like chicago has atm. First of all, not its not. The latter two are a $1.95-$2.1 million difference and Horton (for Christ's-sake) is a $3.1 million difference, not $1.2. I love how you try to stretch numbers as if I'm (or anyone else for that matter) not going to call you on it. Second, Chicago is playing with a roster similar to one that Detroit had in 2008. One where Z and Franzen's contracts were peanuts. That's not gonna be the case next season in Chicago. Try again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 First of all, not its not. Those players are roughly a $2.1 million difference, not $1.2. Also, I love how you try to stretch numbers as if I'm (or no one else for that matter is going to call you on it). Second, Chicago is playing with a roster similar to one that Detroit had in 2008. One where Z and Franzen's contracts were peanuts. That's not gonna be the case next season in Chicago. Try again. I really don't know why anyone even wastes their time reading or replying to mindfly's posts at this point... he's clearly only here to get under peoples skin... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) I think I read at a forum at worst Chicago will lose one of Sharp/Bufyglien/Versteeg + 2-3 filling roster players in the offseason to fit under the cap...while a guy like sharp will be missed they will still reign the central division and be at the top of the western conference. Edited June 2, 2010 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 I think I read at a forum at worst Chicago will lose one of Sharp/Bufyglien/Versteeg + 2-3 filling roster players in the offseason to fit under the cap...while a guy like sharp will be missed they will still reign the central division and be at the top of the western conference. Chicago has a VERY GOOD young team and will still be very competitive even if they lose some of those players (not going to argue with you on that)... As the same time, I think they would try to retain Versteeg or Sharp if possible... Back to Nick... Good to have him back for another year... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedFX 48 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Bottom line: We're lucky to have him back AT ALL. However, were even LUCKIER that Lidstrom is the type of player that is willing to win at all costs. That is why he signed for less. Name any other player in the game today that would have taken a 1.3 million dollar paycut so his team could have extra cap-space to sign someone else...... Had lidstrom scored 70-80pts, been a finalist/won for/the norris and played lights out of course this 6.2 contract would have been amazing, but his 49pts, no nomination, half of the plus-minus from some of the previous seasons, he could never have asked for 7.45 and he knows it, and he might even decline more this upcoming season... 6.2 is sort of an absolut max, a 5M would have looked much better based on the stats he had the season that just ended. Are you serious? He's going to go down as one of the greatest defensemen in all time league history and you think he doesn't deserve his salary because of one bad year? If you hadn't noticed, the whole team underperformed this year. Lidstrom is still one of the best defensemen in the game, and he should get paid for it imo. 1 MidMichSteve reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 I think I read at a forum at worst Chicago will lose one of Sharp/Bufyglien/Versteeg + 2-3 filling roster players in the offseason to fit under the cap...while a guy like sharp will be missed they will still reign the central division and be at the top of the western conference. Well, if that's not the most damning, factual argument I've ever heard! Chicago's cap number on the books for next year is $62,959,000+ all the while still needing 4 Forwards, 2 D-men (one of which is Hjalmarsson) and Niemi heading for Arbitration this summer! You're either making up the fact that you read that on another forum or you listened to someone who's full of s***. Yes, Chicago will still be a good team....but they'll have next to nothing in terms of depth next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladdy16 2,154 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 I could have sworn this thread was about Lidstrom re-signing....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Very happy he is back and I'm fine with the price tag. I was 50/50 on him retiring or coming back so this is AWESOME news. At least one more year before we have a GIANT void on D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedFX 48 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 For the record, here are the defensemen that will make more than Lidstrom next season... Chris Pronger: 7.6 m Zdeno Chara: 7.5m Brian Campbell: 7.14m Dion Phaneuf: 7m Dan Boyle: 6.67m Jay Bouwmeester: 6.6m Wade Redden: 6.5m Are you honestly telling me every single one of those players is better than Lidstrom? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 I could have sworn this thread was about Lidstrom re-signing....... Bad NFM! Standard digression from Blackhawks current depth and Lidstrom's "over-the-top extra" $1.2 million. My bad...but I blame Mindy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sprsquirt7 45 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 The hawks cap situation relies on 2 things, trading Huet and Trading Campbell. They suck up cap space. They can't afford anyone without moving people around because they are borderline over the cap before resigning anyone. Their top lines will be fine but theres no way they have near the depth they have this year. They'll be a playoff team but I doubt tops of the west. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mitchmac33 103 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 What examples are there in sports where somebody who was considered to be the best at their position in the league took an insanely generous pay cut? His contract was fair. Simply fair. What other deals have happened that were "incredible generous"? Wayne Gretzky Top-5 is only great now? And his +/- was so mundane in comparison this recent year because the team was so god-awful for the majority of it. No ******* s*** he isn't going to have a career year. so again his declining +/- had absolutely nothing to do with it. I guarentee you if the team was healthy his +/- would have dropped from the year before. This is just another excuse. Top-5 IS being a top defenseman in the league. You have ridiculously high standards. I said THE best, not one of the best. THE best. that can only be one player. Now that i think about it idk if i would say nick was top 5 last year. I think he can be, but he's gotta step up. and bring on the "who would you rather have" because last year there are plenty i would rather have had, but this year i'm glad we got nick. It's a new year and hopefully he proves all us who think he should've come for less wrong. My point is he shouldn't have to make less than a guy like Rafalski (who also has a NTC to boot) when he plays so much better. My point is Eaves/helm/abdelkader shouldn't have to make less than a guy like draper (who also has a ntc) whe they play so much better. If he played at his level in 08, why wouldn't he deserve 7.4 mil like in 08? And how would that hurt the team when they won the cup with that exorbitant cap hit. IF. last year he did not play at that level so how can management expect to pay him that kind of money if it's unknown whether or not he'll be worth it. He was never paid league max in the salary cap world. No one said he was. There are ppl who think he deserves it tho and that is just stupid. Really? Gofigure! Look, no one's saying he's going to be as stellar as he was this year, but he'll likely have a better team playing in front of him all season given that another black-plague's worth of injuries doesn't befall this team again this coming season. Even if Howard did struggle, what savior of a goalie could the Wings sign with that extra $1.2 in cap room that so many are bitching about? That amount of extra cap room is hardly going to solve anything between the pipes. IT. IS. (Yes, I screamed it) I wasn't sayin that we have to find a new goaltender. I was just saying that just because he played well last season doesn't mean he'll be equally as good this year. But i'm also not saying he won't be better. Because who knows. I just hope he's been workingon his five hole lol. 1 Broken 16 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrazyGangsta 79 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 For the record, here are the defensemen that will make more than Lidstrom next season... Chris Pronger: 7.6 m Zdeno Chara: 7.5m Brian Campbell: 7.14m Dion Phaneuf: 7m Dan Boyle: 6.67m Jay Bouwmeester: 6.6m Wade Redden: 6.5m Are you honestly telling me every single one of those players is better than Lidstrom? Only ones worth there contractl, I agree with your post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 I wasn't sayin that we have to find a new goaltender. I was just saying that just because he played well last season doesn't mean he'll be equally as good this year. But i'm also not saying he won't be better. Because who knows. I just hope he's been workingon his five hole lol. And all I'm saying is that he'll likely have a more solid squad playing in front of him all season to help him even more. That, and hopefully he continues to improve rather then step back as a Sophomore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted June 2, 2010 Wayne Gretzky so again his declining +/- had absolutely nothing to do with it. I guarentee you if the team was healthy his +/- would have dropped from the year before. This is just another excuse. Based on? How does a defenseman's +/- get worse when the team is better? I said THE best, not one of the best. THE best. that can only be one player. Now that i think about it idk if i would say nick was top 5 last year. I think he can be, but he's gotta step up. and bring on the "who would you rather have" because last year there are plenty i would rather have had, but this year i'm glad we got nick. It's a new year and hopefully he proves all us who think he should've come for less wrong. Lidstrom was a top 5, arguably top 3 player last year. Just because he isn't THE best doesn't mean a contract worth 6 mil is too much. My point is Eaves/helm/abdelkader shouldn't have to make less than a guy like draper (who also has a ntc) whe they play so much better. How long has Draper been in this franchise compared to Rafalski when he was signed? IF. last year he did not play at that level so how can management expect to pay him that kind of money if it's unknown whether or not he'll be worth it. Because Lidstrom is the most consistent performer out there. No one said he was. There are ppl who think he deserves it tho and that is just stupid And the great thing is he isn't. This is a good contract for a great player. 1 Zeowingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
