351 replies to this topic

[NeverForgetMac25]

I think I read at a forum at worst Chicago will lose one of Sharp/Bufyglien/Versteeg + 2-3 filling roster players in the offseason to fit under the cap...while a guy like sharp will be missed they will still reign the central division and be at the top of the western conference.

Well, if that's not the most damning, factual argument I've ever heard!

Chicago's cap number on the books for next year is $62,959,000+ all the while still needing 4 Forwards, 2 D-men (one of which is Hjalmarsson) and Niemi heading for Arbitration this summer! You're either making up the fact that you read that on another forum or you listened to someone who's full of s***.

Yes, Chicago will still be a good team....but they'll have next to nothing in terms of depth next year.

[vladdy16]

I could have sworn this thread was about Lidstrom re-signing.......

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile]

Very happy he is back and I'm fine with the price tag. I was 50/50 on him retiring or coming back so this is AWESOME news. At least one more year before we have a GIANT void on D.

[RedFX]

For the record, here are the defensemen that will make more than Lidstrom next season...

Chris Pronger: 7.6 m
Zdeno Chara: 7.5m
Brian Campbell: 7.14m
Dion Phaneuf: 7m
Dan Boyle: 6.67m
Jay Bouwmeester: 6.6m
Wade Redden: 6.5m


Are you honestly telling me every single one of those players is better than Lidstrom?

[NeverForgetMac25]

I could have sworn this thread was about Lidstrom re-signing.......

Bad NFM! Standard digression from Blackhawks current depth and Lidstrom's "over-the-top extra" $1.2 million.

My bad...but I blame Mindy.

[Sprsquirt7]

The hawks cap situation relies on 2 things, trading Huet and Trading Campbell. They suck up cap space. They can't afford anyone without moving people around because they are borderline over the cap before resigning anyone. Their top lines will be fine but theres no way they have near the depth they have this year. They'll be a playoff team but I doubt tops of the west.

[Mitchmac33]

What examples are there in sports where somebody who was considered to be the best at their position in the league took an insanely generous pay cut?

His contract was fair. Simply fair. What other deals have happened that were "incredible generous"?

Wayne Gretzky

Top-5 is only great now? And his +/- was so mundane in comparison this recent year because the team was so god-awful for the majority of it. Nof****** s*** he isn't going to have a career year.

so again his declining +/- had absolutely nothing to do with it. I guarentee you if the team was healthy his +/- would have dropped from the year before. This is just another excuse.

Top-5 IS being a top defenseman in the league. You have ridiculously high standards.

I said THE best, not one of the best. THE best. that can only be one player. Now that i think about it idk if i would say nick was top 5 last year. I think he can be, but he's gotta step up. and bring on the "who would you rather have" because last year there are plenty i would rather have had, but this year i'm glad we got nick. It's a new year and hopefully he proves all us who think he should've come for less wrong.

My point is he shouldn't have to make less than a guy like Rafalski (who also has a NTC to boot) when he plays so much better.

My point is Eaves/helm/abdelkader shouldn't have to make less than a guy like draper (who also has a ntc) whe they play so much better.

If he played at his level in 08, why wouldn't he deserve 7.4 mil like in 08? And how would that hurt the team when they won the cup with that exorbitant cap hit.

IF. last year he did not play at that level so how can management expect to pay him that kind of money if it's unknown whether or not he'll be worth it.

He was never paid league max in the salary cap world.

No one said he was. There are ppl who think he deserves it tho and that is just stupid.

Really? Gofigure!

Look, no one's saying he's going to be as stellar as he was this year, but he'll likely have a better team playing in front of him all season given that another black-plague's worth of injuries doesn't befall this team again this coming season.

Even if Howard did struggle, what savior of a goalie could the Wings sign with that extra $1.2 in cap room that so many are bitching about? That amount of extra cap room is hardly going to solve anything between the pipes.


IT. IS.

(Yes, I screamed it)

I wasn't sayin that we have to find a new goaltender. I was just saying that just because he played well last season doesn't mean he'll be equally as good this year. But i'm also not saying he won't be better. Because who knows. I just hope he's been workingon his five hole lol.

[KrazyGangsta]

For the record, here are the defensemen that will make more than Lidstrom next season...

Chris Pronger: 7.6 m
Zdeno Chara: 7.5m
Brian Campbell: 7.14m
Dion Phaneuf: 7m
Dan Boyle: 6.67m
Jay Bouwmeester: 6.6m
Wade Redden: 6.5m


Are you honestly telling me every single one of those players is better than Lidstrom?

Only ones worth there contractl, I agree with your post.

[NeverForgetMac25]

I wasn't sayin that we have to find a new goaltender. I was just saying that just because he played well last season doesn't mean he'll be equally as good this year. But i'm also not saying he won't be better. Because who knows. I just hope he's been workingon his five hole lol.

And all I'm saying is that he'll likely have a more solid squad playing in front of him all season to help him even more. That, and hopefully he continues to improve rather then step back as a Sophomore.

[Doc Holliday]

Wayne Gretzky


so again his declining +/- had absolutely nothing to do with it. I guarentee you if the team was healthy his +/- would have dropped from the year before. This is just another excuse.

Based on? How does a defenseman's +/- get worse when the team is better?

I said THE best, not one of the best. THE best. that can only be one player. Now that i think about it idk if i would say nick was top 5 last year. I think he can be, but he's gotta step up. and bring on the "who would you rather have" because last year there are plenty i would rather have had, but this year i'm glad we got nick. It's a new year and hopefully he proves all us who think he should've come for less wrong.

Lidstrom was a top 5, arguably top 3 player last year. Just because he isn't THE best doesn't mean a contract worth 6 mil is too much.

My point is Eaves/helm/abdelkader shouldn't have to make less than a guy like draper (who also has a ntc) whe they play so much better.

How long has Draper been in this franchise compared to Rafalski when he was signed?

IF. last year he did not play at that level so how can management expect to pay him that kind of money if it's unknown whether or not he'll be worth it.

Because Lidstrom is the most consistent performer out there.

No one said he was. There are ppl who think he deserves it tho and that is just stupid

And the great thing is he isn't. This is a good contract for a great player.

[newfy]

Based on? How does a defenseman's +/- get worse when the team is better?




Lidstrom was a top 5, arguably top 3 player last year. Just because he isn't THE best doesn't mean a contract worth 6 mil is too much.




How long has Draper been in this franchise compared to Rafalski when he was signed?




Because Lidstrom is the most consistent performer out there.



And the great thing is he isn't. This is a good contract for a great player.

You mean arguably top 3 on the wings right?

Lidstrom is still a great player but you guys need to take off your wing coloured homer glasses. Lidstrom is on the decline and was not one of the top 3 players in the league last year.

[HankthaTank]

Still one of the best shut down defenseman in the league. And this was from non Red Wings color homer glasses players in the NHL. Man oh man people the guy wasn't going to take less money than Raffi. Give it up.

[Mitchmac33]

Based on? How does a defenseman's +/- get worse when the team is better?

2006/07 Nick Lidstrom +/- 40, 2007/08 +/- 40, 2008/09 +/-31, 2009/2010 +/- 22
say whatever you want about a depleted roster, but when you are the best defenseman youre +/- shouldn't drop 20 in two years or even almost 10 in one year.

How long has Draper been in this franchise compared to Rafalski when he was signed?

What does the longevity of Draper being in the franchise have to do with the fact that their are 3 better players on the team whose contracts are up and going by your logic should make more money than players who aren't as good as they are.

Because Lidstrom is the most consistent performer out there.

There are much more consitent players out there now. Three years ago you could say this, but today you can't. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Nick was exposed. Yes he is still good but he is not the most consistent player out there. Unless you are talking only Red Wings in which case you may have an arguement. But even then it's gonna be an arguement.

Edited by Mitchmac33, 02 June 2010 - 02:32 PM.

[Doc Holliday]

2006/07 Nick Lidstrom +/- 40, 2007/08 +/- 40, 2008/09 +/-31, 2009/2010 +/- 22
say whatever you want about a depleted roster, but when you are the best defenseman youre +/- shouldn't drop 20 in two years or even almost 10 in one year.

The team was a firewagon in 09. Bigf****** deal. Does that mean the 08 and 07 teams were much worse than the 06 one?

Silly rabbit.

What does the longevity of Draper being in the franchise have to do with the fact that their are 3 better players on the team whose contracts are up and going by your logic should make more money than players who aren't as good as they are.

I suppose dedication to a franchise has no basis on what kind of contract you get. Oh wait, it does.

There are much more consitent players out there now. Three years ago you could say this, but today you can't. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Nick was exposed. Yes he is still good but he is not the most consistent player out there. Unless you are talking only Red Wings in which case you may have an arguement. But even then it's gonna be an arguement.

So who else is more consistent? I would love to see who you choose.

You mean arguably top 3 on the wings right?

Lidstrom is still a great player but you guys need to take off your wing coloured homer glasses. Lidstrom is on the decline and was not one of the top 3 players in the league last year.

Meant defenseman.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 02 June 2010 - 03:41 PM.

[Heroes of Hockeytown]

2006/07 Nick Lidstrom +/- 40, 2007/08 +/- 40, 2008/09 +/-31, 2009/2010 +/- 22
say whatever you want about a depleted roster, but when you are the best defenseman youre +/- shouldn't drop 20 in two years or even almost 10 in one year.

No, I'd say a plus/minus change of 10 isn't very significant. A difference of 10 goals for/against over the course of an 82 game season is no measure of a defensemen's worth.

For example: Duncan Keith, finished with a +21 this season after going +33 the previous one. Do you think he's a worse player this season than last, now that the Hawks are on the verge of winning the Cup?

I actually tried to find more "top" defensemen to be compared to Nick in this way, but most are so wildly inconsistent (as opposed to Nick who has always been a plus player by a wide margin) I'd have to go back more than one year. Nick is one of only two NHL defensemen during the last two years to finish top 10 in both plus/minus and points, sharing the honor with the illustrious Mike Green.

[Bannedforlife]

Spoiled. f'in. brats.

That's what EVERYONE who has a problem with this is... no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

This is the best defenseman of our era and arguably, the best defenseman EVER to lace them up... he is 2 years removed from a +40 season with 70pts and finished with a +22 and 49 pts last year... WITH AN INJURY DEPLETED TEAM and coming off 3 straight years of DEEP playoff runs (not to mention almost losing a nut, literally)

He is still one of the 5 best defenseman in the league and 6.2 is a BARGAIN... just get ready to eat your crow when he puts up another Norris worth season this coming year after actually getting most of a summer off to re-charge the batteries...

You should all be ashamed and disgusted by yourselves for even SUGGESTING he deserves less...

I think those of you chastising others for expressing how they feel about this are the ones who should be ashamed, because you're going way overboard with it. When did it become the ultimate insult to criticize somebody? Professors do it all the time. So does my girlfriend, my parents, and my boss. I don't consider it a threat to my legacy. Nearly every person on this board has criticized and/or crucified someone within the Red Wings organization at one time or another. That's exactly what makes us fans, our passion for the team. Not because we buy tickets and jerseys and just sit quietly and never think or say or do anything bad about the team. Why should Lidstrom be exempt from our scrutiny?

There isn't a person on this forum who doesn't appreciate what Lidstrom has done for the team. No one is insinuating that Lidstrom isn't one of the greatest players in the history of the game, or that he shouldn't be properly compensated (which he has been. #2 highest accumulated NHL salary ever) This isn't an all or nothing situation. Isn't it possible to feel excited and relieved and at the same time a little disappointed? Kind of like every girl who gave her virginity to you. Yes, I'm glad our Captain is coming back for one more chance at the cup. Yes, I do believe that he is worth every penny of that 6.2 million dollar contract. At the same time, I wish that he could've left just a little bit more on the table. I'm positive that every single person here was hoping against all logic that he would've signed for about a million dollars less. Wasn't it Lidstrom himself who said that he would play for the league minimum just to stay in Detroit? He obviously wasn't insulted by the thought of a salary lower than market value at the time. Or is that just some bulls*** he said to make himself look good? If someone is going to publicly state that they would be willing to work for a certain dollar amount, it isn't blasphemous to think that person might be willing to work for TEN TIMES THAT AMOUNT!

In the end, you're going to feel how you feel about it, and I'm going to feel how I feel about it. And that's cool. But don't go around calling me out and calling me names when you're the one acting like a ******.

With that said, I'm done with this thread. The ink is dry already, so there's nothing more to be said. Now all we can do is sit around and wait to ***** about Homer's contract

Edited by Bannedforlife, 02 June 2010 - 09:40 PM.

[RockyMountainWingGal]

Still one of the best shut down defenseman in the league. And this was from non Red Wings color homer glasses players in the NHL. Man oh man people the guy wasn't going to take less money than Raffi. Give it up.

Nor was Holland going to pay him any less than Raffy. The Wings treat their players well - especially one like Nick who has been with the organization for almost 2 decades. He was one of the players that deferred salary to get Hull in 02. He also could have gotten more after the lockout - and the players association was actually POd he didn't take the max.

I think it is fair that Nick not make less than Rafalski. He took a cut - not a real steep on, but the guy played all 82 freaking games last year. People that point to Stevie's last few years forget he was out a good part of those seasons and was really only in for the playoffs.

Good deal for Nick and the Wings. I shiver when I imagine the Wings without him - now I can postpone that agony for at least another year....

[brett]

lids is def worth 6 mil even at 40-41. he is still top dman and still racks up alot of points. thank you for coming back lids

[ComradeWasabi]

He's worth every penny of the $6.2 million.

That being said, I was hoping he would take one for the team and sign for much less simply because it would help improve the roster.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

And some crackheads said he would sign for like 2 mil he's worth every dollar.