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Great or Bust?


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#1 Pat

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 11:57 AM

I keep seeing multiple posts on this forum and other forums about how we made a bad move giving up Ville Leino.
The reality is, he is one of the highest scoring players on Philadelphia at this moment in the playoffs.

I don't think Ville Leino is a great player, and at best he is a secondary scorer.
He Didn't fit in with the wings because of the depth chart we have.

At this point and time, I believe this is an attempt to get a raise by him. (His contract expires after the season)

But really, who would sit in the lineup for this guy to get goals? We aren't sitting bertuzzi, homer, datsyuk, zetterberg, franzen, filpulla?

None of these players are going to play on the third line, it just doens't happen.

It's a great fit for a low scoring defensive style of game for Philly, but not for Detroit.

Great or Bust?

I'm gonna say bust, he is lousy with the puck on his stick and is bad defensively(watch the last game even tho they won)
And he is not a regular season scorer. Most of his goals are just to an open net so I'm not impressed with his playoffs.

Edited by Pat, 05 June 2010 - 11:58 AM.


#2 ShanahanMan

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 11:59 AM

In case you haven't noticed, we've been talking about the same thing for the last like 5 days in the other thread.


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#3 redwingfan19

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:00 PM

I may be one of the few who is glad he is gone. I like the guy and wish him well, but I will not miss his floating, getting knocked off the puck and sulking when he is not in the lineup. With huds coming back I think we can all agree we would much rather have him than leino.
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#4 hooon

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:20 PM

Surely there must be something in between Great and Bust. There are more than just great and terrible players in this league.
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#5 Carman

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:39 PM

He's going to be a solid player that has great hot streaks. He's going to be sort of like Bertuzzi in terms of consistency through out the year.

#6 Bannedforlife

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 02:47 PM

I keep seeing multiple posts on this forum and other forums about how we made a bad move giving up Ville Leino.
The reality is, he is one of the highest scoring players on Philadelphia at this moment in the playoffs.

I don't think Ville Leino is a great player, and at best he is a secondary scorer.
He Didn't fit in with the wings because of the depth chart we have.

At this point and time, I believe this is an attempt to get a raise by him. (His contract expires after the season)

But really, who would sit in the lineup for this guy to get goals? We aren't sitting bertuzzi, homer, datsyuk, zetterberg, franzen, filpulla?

None of these players are going to play on the third line, it just doens't happen.

It's a great fit for a low scoring defensive style of game for Philly, but not for Detroit.

Great or Bust?

I'm gonna say bust, he is lousy with the puck on his stick and is bad defensively(watch the last game even tho they won)
And he is not a regular season scorer. Most of his goals are just to an open net so I'm not impressed with his playoffs.

Hypothetically, if he were to return next season and we re-signed Bert, I would start the lines like this. How long they would remain this way would be determined by how he and the team responded.

Franzen - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Leino - Zetterberg - Bertuzzi
Cleary - Filppula - Hudler

And to answer the original question, over he course of his career I think he will end up being a solid NHL contributor. He will put up respectable numbers as a 2/3 line defensive liability, and yes, some of them will be of the clutch/heroic variety. But neither Kenny nor I will end up losing any sleep over him.

Edited by Bannedforlife, 05 June 2010 - 02:57 PM.


#7 13dangledangle

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 02:55 PM

I put great, I havent looked at other responses because? but it doesnt matter because Ville was/is a solid player but a very solid chance of missing a playoff run and ending an era was lurking and Kenny and Co. didnt have time to wait for the day he showed up.
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#8 mjlegend

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 03:16 PM

It's like watching Sergei Nemchinov all over again. I think Leino's ceiling is 50-60 points as well, even given all of the right circumstances. That's not "great".

I think he'll get 30 points next year when they don't make the playoffs. That's kind of a bust for someone breaking Brian Propp's rookie playoff points record this year. He's just not gritty enough to stay on the Flyers.

#9 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 04:22 PM

Considering the widespread joy around here when he was traded I really hope this doesn't turn into another Quincey situation where people pretend they were against him leaving (even though 90% of these people weren't) and blame Holland instead of the player who couldn't earn a roster spot on their own.

I was unhappy to see Leino go (I had to drop him from my signature :( ) and I'm not terribly surprised that he bounced back. I am surprised that he put 16pts up in the playoffs so far, though.

He'll likely never be more than a 2nd line winger but it sucks that he couldn't earn a roster spot here in Detroit.
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#10 RedWingsRox

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 04:26 PM

To my knowledge, he was a bust during regular season with 4 pts in 13 games.
To my memory, we brought him in just for the playoffs in 08-09 and he filled in great.
Maybe he was built for the playoffs ... like a Byfuglien.

#11 Finnish Wing

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 04:34 PM

I keep seeing multiple posts on this forum and other forums about how we made a bad move giving up Ville Leino.
The reality is, he is one of the highest scoring players on Philadelphia at this moment in the playoffs.

I don't think Ville Leino is a great player, and at best he is a secondary scorer.
He Didn't fit in with the wings because of the depth chart we have.

At this point and time, I believe this is an attempt to get a raise by him. (His contract expires after the season)

But really, who would sit in the lineup for this guy to get goals? We aren't sitting bertuzzi, homer, datsyuk, zetterberg, franzen, filpulla?

None of these players are going to play on the third line, it just doens't happen.

It's a great fit for a low scoring defensive style of game for Philly, but not for Detroit.

Great or Bust?

I'm gonna say bust, he is lousy with the puck on his stick and is bad defensively(watch the last game even tho they won)
And he is not a regular season scorer. Most of his goals are just to an open net so I'm not impressed with his playoffs.

Haha. You're so wrong.

It's not a contract year for him. That would make it all the difference, but it isn't like that. He still has that 800k year for next year as well. So he's not "playing for a rase".

Also, that other comment either shows that you've not watched a single Flyers game this post-season OR that you wan't to make him look MUCH worse by trying to make some bulls*** excuses for him playing well. He's been absolutely dominant at times and has been a top forward for them, especially in the Finals.

Your argument is so ridicolous man. "Lousy with the puck"? LOL. So you know better than Laviolette, Briere, Pronger or Burish, right?

He's not a regular season scorer because "most of his goals are on open net"? WTF. So you're not impressed with his playoffs. Yeah. Obviously you aren't. And there's only one reason for that. YOU DON'T WANNA BE.

But go ahead, keep making these funny excuses for yourself. As I said, maybe if you try hard enough they'll actually become true. Try this: say repeatedly "Leino sucks! Leino sucks!" and it might just happen.

Or not. Well anyway, watch for him to lift that Cup after few days.
Detroit Red Wings & Tampereen Ilves forever!

#12 Pat

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 06:11 PM

Haha. You're so wrong.

It's not a contract year for him. That would make it all the difference, but it isn't like that. He still has that 800k year for next year as well. So he's not "playing for a rase".

Also, that other comment either shows that you've not watched a single Flyers game this post-season OR that you wan't to make him look MUCH worse by trying to make some bulls*** excuses for him playing well. He's been absolutely dominant at times and has been a top forward for them, especially in the Finals.

Your argument is so ridicolous man. "Lousy with the puck"? LOL. So you know better than Laviolette, Briere, Pronger or Burish, right?

He's not a regular season scorer because "most of his goals are on open net"? WTF. So you're not impressed with his playoffs. Yeah. Obviously you aren't. And there's only one reason for that. YOU DON'T WANNA BE.

But go ahead, keep making these funny excuses for yourself. As I said, maybe if you try hard enough they'll actually become true. Try this: say repeatedly "Leino sucks! Leino sucks!" and it might just happen.

Or not. Well anyway, watch for him to lift that Cup after few days.


Let me know when you can stare me straight in the eyes and tell me he can get around people without getting "knocked" off the puck

Kbud?

Have a good day

#13 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 08:08 PM

Let me know when you can stare me straight in the eyes and tell me he can get around people without getting "knocked" off the puck

Kbud?

Have a good day


He can get around people without getting "knocked" off the puck. Not 100%, but he can and does.

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#14 SDavis35

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 08:09 PM

He didn't fit the Red Wings style, I think that's because he was expected to play solid defensively as well as offensively. On Philly he's been successful, and shown why he was thought of so highly. I honestly think the puck has just been going in for him. He's just getting to the right spot at the right time, pretty simple hockey and it's been good for him. If he faces a physical, checking d-man, he's not going to be as successful. My opinion based on what I've seen in his goals.

#15 CenterIce

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 08:23 PM

Leino came out and said in an NHL article that he basically did not like it in Detroit. He didn't want to be over coached, with everyone telling him what to do. He also said the Wings were trying to make him a goal scorer, when he feels he is a play maker. He didn't want to play system hockey. So, his attitude was not in a place to play for the Wings. With the Wings, you have to buy into the system. You have to be responsible in both ends of the ice. Plus, you have to be willing to be flexible and play different roles. Some guys play well on some teams and not on others.

#16 Puckpossession

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 09:06 PM

Leino came out and said in an NHL article that he basically did not like it in Detroit. He didn't want to be over coached, with everyone telling him what to do. He also said the Wings were trying to make him a goal scorer, when he feels he is a play maker. He didn't want to play system hockey. So, his attitude was not in a place to play for the Wings. With the Wings, you have to buy into the system. You have to be responsible in both ends of the ice. Plus, you have to be willing to be flexible and play different roles. Some guys play well on some teams and not on others.


His goals are all feeding off his teammates hard work, the puck finds him when his team works there ass off for him, he just puts it in an empty net. Hes not a horrible player, but hes not the best either. But also him being able to feed off his teams hardwork is no accident, the guy knows where to be, so great for him.

#17 Finnish Wing

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:42 AM

His goals are all feeding off his teammates hard work, the puck finds him when his team works there ass off for him, he just puts it in an empty net. Hes not a horrible player, but hes not the best either. But also him being able to feed off his teams hardwork is no accident, the guy knows where to be, so great for him.

Again, keep saying that s*** to yourself and one day it might become true. Because obviously you haven't watched a single game he's played this post-season or you're just making s*** up.

Let me know when you can stare me straight in the eyes and tell me he can get around people without getting "knocked" off the puck

Kbud?

Have a good day

He's deked through many d-men in these playoffs. It's kinda hard to argue with someone who a) doesn't watch the games or b) doesn't want to believe what he sees because he's so pissed (about this "ex-girlfriend" thing)
Detroit Red Wings & Tampereen Ilves forever!

#18 Finnish Wing

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 07:01 AM

1. He didn't want to be over coached, with everyone telling him what to do.

2. He also said the Wings were trying to make him a goal scorer, when he feels he is a play maker.

3. He didn't want to play system hockey.

4. So, his attitude was not in a place to play for the Wings.

5. With the Wings, you have to buy into the system. You have to be responsible in both ends of the ice. Plus, you have to be willing to be flexible and play different roles.

6. Some guys play well on some teams and not on others.

1. Where did he say that exactly? I read an article about that, but then I saw the video interview and the interviewer had twisted his words - like they many times do.

2. That's another thing that was twisted to the paper. He didn't say like that. He said that guys like Pavs, Z etc. are more skilled and want to have the puck a lot, while at the same time it's how he plays as well. That's what he said. Hartnell goes to the net, Briere shoots and Leino makes the plays.

Another example how some interviewers just take some parts to the actual paper to make things look totally different than they really are. Then there are these fans who read these stories and think every word said in them is true.

3. How do you come up with all this s***? "Didn't want to play system hockey." LOL. You think he isn't playing system hockey now? There's a fine line between system hockey and over coaching a rookie.

4. Attitude (according to LGW's fans) = a couple quotes taken from mlive's articles.

5. Yeah, and obviously you don't have to buy into the system in Philly then. It's not about the system, don't you understand? If you think every guy in the current Wings roster are flexible playing in any role you're completely mistaken. We can try Helm on the 1st line center or on the PP in playmaking role. If you think Leino doesn't back check or play defense now in Philly you're also completely mistaken.

Every team has role for their guys. You don't put Helm on the PP and you don't put Leino on the PK. It's impossible in today's league (with the cap) to have a team where every guy is both good defensively and offensively. You pay for both. Like I said, Holland knew very well - before he signed Leino - what he was going to get. Obviously he didn't think he was going to bust like that, but he knew there was a big risk for it and he took it.

6. True. And that many times has little to do with the system. It's much more about getting a fresh start and getting confidence back. Ask Dan Cleary.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 06 June 2010 - 07:17 AM.

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#19 CenterIce

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 07:20 AM

http://www.nhl.com/i...avid=nhl-search

#20 Finnish Wing

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 07:28 AM

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=529595#&navid=nhl-search

There's an video in the Flyers website about that exactly same interview. That article proves nothing I said wrong. Obviously you don't have anything to argue against me if only thing you can do is post a single url here.

"I think some coaches were thinking maybe they wanted me to become more like a (Tomas) Holmstrom or (Dan) Cleary or even a (Johan) Franzen," the 6-foot-1, 190-pound Leino said. "But I'm not just a pure goal-scorer. I'm more of a playmaker."

That quote is only a part of the interview and he didn't even said it like that. You honestly need to understand that the whole meaning of the quote can chance radically if the writer twists a few words or leaves something out.

"You don't have to sit back and wait for something to happen (in the Flyers' system). It's aggressive hockey and gets you right on top of things."

And there he obviously points out that even the Flyers do have a system! OMG THEY HAVE A SYSTEM TOO?
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