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Would a real gritty fighter help or hurt this team?


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#21 Jesusberg

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 01:46 PM

I would be comfortable with any one of the following:

Artyukhin - UFA/27 years old - 54 games played
16 points
2 fights
127 hits & 10 blocked shots

Asham - UFA/32 years old - 72 games played
24 points
14 fights
92 hits & 16 blocked shots

Nichol - UFA/35 years old - 79 games played
19 points
4 fights
226 hits & 36 blocked shots

Nystrom - UFA/27 years old - 82 games played
19 points
6 fights
117 hits & 51 blocked shots


Winchester - UFA/29 years old - 64 games played
8 points
10 fights
143 hits & 12 blocked shots

I think out of these 5 guys Nystrom or Asham would be the best fit for Detroit's system. I included Artyukhin as well because he's only a year removed from a 249 hit/7 fight season, and the guy is huge (6'4, 255 lbs.). Like I said though, any of these guys I would be cool with.

PS: If I'm off on any of the info just correct me.

#22 newfy

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 01:53 PM

We don't need a guy who will play 5 minutes a game and just fight but at the same time we don't need a guy who is going to score 10 goals a season and fight heavyweights. Our third liners barely scored 10 goals this year guys so for a guy to scrap heavyweights and score 10 goals would be pretty damn good.

We need to get a player or two who can fight but skate pretty well, make a break out pass, hit and be defensively responsible. We don't need fighters that score, we need fighters who will fit a role on the PK or can just play a solid 10 minutes a night without getting burned all the time.

25 points from a good fighter is a lot to ask for a cheap contract but for around 800k we could get a solid player that is good defensively, kills penalties and wills tick up for his team. Thos offseason has A LOT of good fits to make this team harder to play against.

I can't say if having a fighter really makes this team better but I will say this. You can't argue that when this team has been tougher to play against with grittier guys (guys who usually are able to fight like Drake) we have been more successful. When our team has been softer and more skilled with no balance of tougher players we lose and get worn down instead of wearing down other teams.

Guys who fight and stick up for themselves also rub off on the team, when May was in the lineup everyone had more edge to their game and a few guys were even fighting. Fighters do have an effect on the team mentality.

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#23 stevkrause

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 01:55 PM

I would be comfortable with any one of the following:

Artyukhin - UFA/27 years old - 54 games played
16 points
2 fights
127 hits & 10 blocked shots

Asham - UFA/32 years old - 72 games played
24 points
14 fights
92 hits & 16 blocked shots

Nichol - UFA/35 years old - 79 games played
19 points
4 fights
226 hits & 36 blocked shots

Nystrom - UFA/27 years old - 82 games played
19 points
6 fights
117 hits & 51 blocked shots


Winchester - UFA/29 years old - 64 games played
8 points
10 fights
143 hits & 12 blocked shots

I think out of these 5 guys Nystrom or Asham would be the best fit for Detroit's system. I included Artyukhin as well because he's only a year removed from a 249 hit/7 fight season, and the guy is huge (6'4, 255 lbs.). Like I said though, any of these guys I would be cool with.

PS: If I'm off on any of the info just correct me.

Asham and Nystrom are my 2 choices off that list, but I'd be VERY ok with Winchester as well and wouldn't be opposed to Artyukhin... no thanks on Nichol though - way too many stupid penalties and injury prone, not to mention not a spring chicken anymore and a little guy at that (although with a lot of heart and no fear - a little guy nonetheless)

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

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#24 newfy

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 02:02 PM

Asham and Nystrom are my 2 choices off that list, but I'd be VERY ok with Winchester as well and wouldn't be opposed to Artyukhin... no thanks on Nichol though - way too many stupid penalties and injury prone, not to mention not a spring chicken anymore and a little guy at that (although with a lot of heart and no fear - a little guy nonetheless)

I think Nystrom is the best choice by far. Most offensive upside, still young, could very well end up a drake clone that fights more and Calgary might be looking to shake the team up a bit.

I want someone younger then Asham but wouldn't hate having him obviously. No to Nichol for the same reasons you said, plus he isn't big enough to really lay punishing hits. Arty is a tank but I would rather have other guys.

Winchester I'm starting to think we have the best chance to get and is probably just as tough as all of them with a lot of offensive upside. I couldn't complain about any of them and would all be better replacements for Miller and Maltby

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#25 Jesusberg

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 02:37 PM

Asham and Nystrom are my 2 choices off that list, but I'd be VERY ok with Winchester as well and wouldn't be opposed to Artyukhin... no thanks on Nichol though - way too many stupid penalties and injury prone, not to mention not a spring chicken anymore and a little guy at that (although with a lot of heart and no fear - a little guy nonetheless)


I agree on Nichol's size, but I think out of all the UFA's he reminds me the most of Drake. Ultimately, I'd take Nystrom, Asham, Winchester, Arty then Nichol in that order.

#26 ben_usmc

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:23 PM

This is pretty much my mindset, although my expectations aren't even that lofty - I just want a guy that will go through a wall for his teammates, can play a solid 8 minutes a night, chip in 20+ pts, is solid defensively and doesn't take bad penalties... anything above that is just gravy... can we go into a hottub time machine and get a Brad May in his prime?


I still would love to see us somehow pull a deal and get David Clarkson here from NJ... I wonder what they'd want in exchange for his rights... I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one team throws an offer sheet at him either this year, which will force NJ's hand to either match, or lose him for draft picks...

EDIT - I know it's a pipe dream, but this is one of the only ways I could see parting with Bert -
lines arbitrary:
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.920m) / David Clarkson ($2.000m)
Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Darren Helm ($0.630m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)
Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Garnett Exelby ($1.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $58.0m; PAYROLL: $57.855m; CAP ROOM: $0.145m BONUSES: $0.000m

That roster makes me very happy...

I love these lines

What would be AWESOME is not a Downey/May type player for around 1mil or under but a Mike Richards or Jarome Iginla type player for 4 to 6 mil. We will have to wait until Lids is done but I think a player that can score, hit and fight is what we need.....you know like GORIDE would do.

I would say we just try to steal Chris Stewart if that's what you are looking for
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#27 Z and D for the C

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:31 PM


Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#28 therock48880

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:41 PM

You can't have a player who just sits on the bench for all but 5 minutes of a game anymore. Everyone has to contribute. If a guy can fight, but chip in some goals and assists, every now and than, bring him on, but if all he does is fight, there is no room on the roster. You wouldn't want him to be in every game, because he wouldn't always be needed. And, you can't always predict exactly which games he would be needed.


Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.
Hasek is becoming iconic in my mind

#29 mjlegend

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 05:54 PM

Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.


The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?

#30 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:00 PM

We don't need a guy who will play 5 minutes a game and just fight but at the same time we don't need a guy who is going to score 10 goals a season and fight heavyweights. Our third liners barely scored 10 goals this year guys so for a guy to scrap heavyweights and score 10 goals would be pretty damn good.

We need to get a player or two who can fight but skate pretty well, make a break out pass, hit and be defensively responsible. We don't need fighters that score, we need fighters who will fit a role on the PK or can just play a solid 10 minutes a night without getting burned all the time.

25 points from a good fighter is a lot to ask for a cheap contract but for around 800k we could get a solid player that is good defensively, kills penalties and wills tick up for his team. Thos offseason has A LOT of good fits to make this team harder to play against.

Exactly. Someone on the team has to play less than 10-15 min a night in order for the other (better) players to get their time in as well. There are a lot of good UFA and RFA fighters available this off-season, and I hope the Wings can pick up someone that skates well, is defensively responsible, and can get in 10+ fights if needed. The problem with the better players that everyone wants (3rd+ liners), is that they hurt the team when they fights because they are key players. If May fights, the forth line was probably unlikely to see time during that 5 min anyways. If a third liner fights, that line is now changed for 1-2 shifts. Also, these players are never (rarely) the toughest on their team. Toughness should be addressed from the forth line out IMO.

#31 HankthaTank

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:04 PM

The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?



Think the 'fighter' thing only applies if said 'fighter' is good enough to crack the lineup. Just sayin'.

That said, I shall take Asham for 1.5 or so. That shall fit just nicely.
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#32 Doc Holliday

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:06 PM

Give me a roster that has toughness up and down the lineup over a single 4th line "enforcer" who glares at players he never matches up against and who fights other enforcers.

Aka, when talent starts to falter, make up for it in grit, which would be a good mindset for Kenny in the coming years.

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#33 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:21 PM

Couldnt hurt. I'd love to see Nystrom here as the 4th line guy, he can pay 10-15 minutes effectively. Torres would be an alright option too, but he was benched in the playoffs this year and that isnt super appealing. I wish there was a Drake like guy in the offseason we could get, older guy, played alot of years without a Cup who just puts his body on the line for the team. I'd love Owen Nolan, but I think he isnt a viable option, whether it be money or age, but I'd love to see it haha.

And I really think we'll be fine for physicality toughness if Kenny brings in a couple guys and re-signs Bert, Abby, Helm and Eaves. None of them are super tough, but they can hit, they can fight, and I've never seen more players skate away from Bertuzzi as soon as he comes into a scrum. If Holland can add a Nystrom/Torres type up front and an Exelby/Sutton type on the backend, we're as tough or tougher then the Cup winning team from 08.

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#34 Dominator2005

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:24 PM

Did dressing fighter Riley Cote for half the season hurt the Flyers?

I think the wings are good enough to be able to give some thug (like May) 4 mninutes a night throught most of the regular season and still make the playoffs (where said thug's services are less likely to be needed). The presence of a low-talent fighter on a team in the regular season doesn't seem to have a clear effect on the success of a team. It doesn't help much, doesn't hurt much, but it will usually provide a bit of fun in November when the susperstars are coasting, so I'm all for it.



What a stupid comment...

What's wrong with Carcillo, Asham, Lappy and Hartnell???
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#35 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:40 PM

Couldnt hurt. I'd love to see Nystrom here as the 4th line guy, he can pay 10-15 minutes effectively. Torres would be an alright option too, but he was benched in the playoffs this year and that isnt super appealing. I wish there was a Drake like guy in the offseason we could get, older guy, played alot of years without a Cup who just puts his body on the line for the team. I'd love Owen Nolan, but I think he isnt a viable option, whether it be money or age, but I'd love to see it haha.

And I really think we'll be fine for physicality toughness if Kenny brings in a couple guys and re-signs Bert, Abby, Helm and Eaves. None of them are super tough, but they can hit, they can fight, and I've never seen more players skate away from Bertuzzi as soon as he comes into a scrum. If Holland can add a Nystrom/Torres type up front and an Exelby/Sutton type on the backend, we're as tough or tougher then the Cup winning team from 08.

Do you really expect our forth line to get 10-15 min of playing time a game? Unless the player is a PK'er (and there are a lot of penalties), this is very unlikely. Also, Helm doesn't fight.

#36 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:45 PM

Do you really expect our forth line to get 10-15 min of playing time a game? Unless the player is a PK'er (and there are a lot of penalties), this is very unlikely. Also, Helm doesn't fight.

I dont, but that's what people seem to want. If he's only gonna play 6-8 minutes then he'll florish. Nystrom played on the Flames 3rd line at times but he's a 4th liner. I think he's a perfect fit. I know Helm doesnt fight haha, but he more then makes up for it with his speed and physicality.

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#37 therock48880

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:03 PM

The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?


I never said having a fighter guaranteed a cup. I said the last four times the wings won a cup they had a fighter on their roster during the regular season. There's a big difference there.

Btw, May played less than half the season in Detroit this year.

Someone mentioned that it does no good to have a guy on the fourth line that only plays five minutes a game. Several times this past year a fourth liner, who wasn't a fighter, played VERY sparingly during a game. It's not uncommon for a fourth liner to play 5-10 minutes a game. Personally, I'd rather that person be a big person that scares people than a person like Maltby.

Give me a roster that has toughness up and down the lineup over a single 4th line "enforcer" who glares at players he never matches up against and who fights other enforcers.

Aka, when talent starts to falter, make up for it in grit, which would be a good mindset for Kenny in the coming years.


I agree.

Although I'd like that one big scary guy just in case.
Hasek is becoming iconic in my mind

#38 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:03 PM

I dont, but that's what people seem to want. If he's only gonna play 6-8 minutes then he'll florish. Nystrom played on the Flames 3rd line at times but he's a 4th liner. I think he's a perfect fit. I know Helm doesnt fight haha, but he more then makes up for it with his speed and physicality.


I just realized that Leino kind of looks like Phil Anselmo from Pantera with that beard on his face.

:scared:

Scary avatar.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 07 June 2010 - 07:04 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#39 Joseph Franks

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:19 PM

Don't care so much about the fights. Wouldn't mind seeing a fighter on Detroit, but hits and shots blocked are critical to todays game.

I'd be happy with Nystrom of that list. Not the greatest number of hits, but his shot blocking would be useful in the playoffs, pending he can step up that aspect of his game when it counts. It's tough to find "good" shot blockers these days.

The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?


We did?

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#40 Jesusberg

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:27 PM

I'm all for the Red Wings being a winning team, but a part of me wants to see them really stick up for themselves too. I don't want a straight-up goon, but someone who'll punish other players and drop the gloves once in awhile would be really exciting to me.

And no, I won't go become a Flyers fan, lol.





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