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Would a real gritty fighter help or hurt this team?


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#41 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:28 PM

Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.


Yes... The Red Wings need a fighter.

However there's no room for a full-time fighter under today's cap. The person Ken needs to find is a Fighter with a two-way contract (regardless of age or seniority). It will allow Babcock to pull them up on a regular basis (once every few games) for the occasional thug team during the regular season, give the same effect to the Griffins, and full-time availability for the playoffs.

The problem is that this is sorta of hard to come by, as people in this position are usually on their way up, or down in their career and are only available for 1-2 seasons. Kenny rightfully doesn't seem willing to bring one on full-time (especially looking at Downey).


Edited by CaliWingsNut, 07 June 2010 - 07:31 PM.

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#42 Broken 16

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 08:56 PM

we dont need another brad may




Are you kidding!?! I loved watching all those staged fights that had absolutely no impact on the final result. Great times! :ph34r:

It would be nice to have a fighter that can score and play a decent two-way game... but doesn't every team?

Edited by Broken 16, 07 June 2010 - 09:13 PM.


#43 puffy

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 09:12 PM

I like it rough.

#44 CenterIce

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 09:21 PM

Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.


I did not say that the Wings' should not have a fighter on the team. I said if they do, they need one who can contribute in other areas, not just the fists. You do remember that there used to be 24 roster spots; now only 23. There used to be no salary cap; now there is one. You can't have a guy sitting on your roster, waiting for certain games, where there may be a fight. And, the guys you were talking about? I assume you mean Joey Kocur, who had key goals in the 97 finals versus Philadelphia. McCarty had the hat trick against Colorado in the Conference Finals in 02. Dallas Drake also contributed points in 08 playoffs.

I think you are just proving my point. I like fighting. Never said any differently. I just said they have to contribute, especially in this era. The guys you are inferring did just that.

Give me a roster that has toughness up and down the lineup over a single 4th line "enforcer" who glares at players he never matches up against and who fights other enforcers.

Aka, when talent starts to falter, make up for it in grit, which would be a good mindset for Kenny in the coming years.


Well said.

#45 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 09:34 PM

Are you kidding!?! I loved watching all those staged fights that had absolutely no impact on the final result. Great times! :ph34r:

It would be nice to have a fighter that can score and play a decent two-way game... but doesn't every team?


Doesn't every team have a fighter?
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#46 Broken 16

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 10:04 PM

Doesn't every team have a fighter?



Depends on how loosely you define 'fighter'. Sure.

#47 magicaldatsyuk

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 10:12 PM

i think someone like asham that will be able to provide atleast some points would be good.
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#48 Hockey God

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 10:17 PM

definity help i'd love to get Carcillo

#49 esteef

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 12:05 PM

We're getting Hudler back right? So what's all the fuss? :D

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#50 stevkrause

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 12:17 PM

I did not say that the Wings' should not have a fighter on the team. I said if they do, they need one who can contribute in other areas, not just the fists. You do remember that there used to be 24 roster spots; now only 23. There used to be no salary cap; now there is one. You can't have a guy sitting on your roster, waiting for certain games, where there may be a fight. And, the guys you were talking about? I assume you mean Joey Kocur, who had key goals in the 97 finals versus Philadelphia. McCarty had the hat trick against Colorado in the Conference Finals in 02. Dallas Drake also contributed points in 08 playoffs.

I think you are just proving my point. I like fighting. Never said any differently. I just said they have to contribute, especially in this era. The guys you are inferring did just that.

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#51 IceMunkee

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:28 PM

I think this is a fair point; but I'd really like to see a fighter on the team even if the contribution otherwise is just being solid defensively and checking (being a solid 4th line player). My hope is that it would help everyone play a little tougher. I hate watching the Wings players get pushed around in a game. The example I always think of is a game last season, and I can't now for the life of me remember who we were playing, but I watched some idiot from the other team knock Datsyuk's helmet off in the corner, after the play had moved on. This happened at least three times. I want to say this was before we'd acquired Brad May, and I remember yelling at the TV and really wishing we had a goon out there to answer that crap. Datsyuk, of course, is a pro and never complained or let it get to him.

So I guess my vote would be "it would help", though I understand the argument above. Gotta be a solid skater too.

Edit: auto-format is killing me...

I remember that game. I wish I knew who it was too. I remember the feeling of hatred for the other team and anger that the Wings could not do anything.

But I agree, you have to have an upside or it is null in today's game. The problem with May is he had zero upside. I love Carcillo but realize that is next to impossible.
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#52 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:29 PM

Doesn't every team have a fighter?


Depends....

Is Zetterberg a fighter? He has fought before. What's your definition of a fighter?

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#53 micah

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:39 PM

What a stupid comment...


Sniff.

What's wrong with Carcillo, Asham, Lappy and Hartnell???

Nothing. They all do their jobs well.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#54 Jesusberg

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:55 PM

The more I think about it, the more I want Artyukhin. He won't fight a ton, but he's going to make guys keep their heads on a swivel. If he can fight 8-10 times in a season, while putting up 20-25 points (which he would have been on pace for this past year) and keep punishing guys... that's gold right there. Like I said before, last season he had like 249 hits with Tampa Bay. The Red Wings aren't (I'm guessing) going to sign a guy who will have 20ish fights, and not be able to do much else.

A guy like Arty would be perfect, and Babcock could just have him tied to Datsyuk and have him growl at the opposition. It would also avoid any skating issues that Arty has, and with Datsyuk's bowed legs he's perfectly capable of bearing Arty's 250lbs.

#55 Hockey Convert

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 03:00 PM

> What's wrong with Carcillo, Asham, Lappy and Hartnell???

Nothing. They all do their jobs well.


Agreed, as much as I don't like them. Supporting micah's original point, though, don't Carcillo, Asham, Lappy, and company go sort of quiet when Colton Orr (or equivalent) is on the ice?

I'll admit to not watching much of the Flyers outside the SCF, so I could be off on this. It seems I read it somewhere, though.

#56 newfy

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 03:12 PM

Agreed, as much as I don't like them. Supporting micah's original point, though, don't Carcillo, Asham, Lappy, and company go sort of quiet when Colton Orr (or equivalent) is on the ice?

I'll admit to not watching much of the Flyers outside the SCF, so I could be off on this. It seems I read it somewhere, though.

Yeah Carcillo has drawn more then one penalty when hes on the ice with Orr this season. Orr is one of those guys who doesn't play much at all so for the 5 minutes he does I think guys like carc, and Asham don't worry too much.

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#57 Jesusberg

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 03:18 PM

Agreed, as much as I don't like them. Supporting micah's original point, though, don't Carcillo, Asham, Lappy, and company go sort of quiet when Colton Orr (or equivalent) is on the ice?


Isn't that smart hockey, though? I think it's better to be a pest and draw the ire of the other team than it is to just fight sometimes. Getting under the skin of skilled players who won't retaliate and ignoring the ones who will. While Downey couldn't put up points or skate very well, I liked his mentality when it came to fighting. He fought to stick up for his teammates more than anything else. I wasn't really a fan of Brad May's staged fights this season, but that's just my opinion.

#58 MCleveland89

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 03:22 PM

Wait for McCarty's kids.

#59 Hockey Convert

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 03:29 PM

Isn't that smart hockey, though? ...Getting under the skin of skilled players who won't retaliate and ignoring the ones who will.


Oh, definitely; I'm not disputing that. My point was that if you have the enforcer, you can at least cut down on cheap shots at your skill players with creative line changes; whereas without one, i.e. as the Wings are now, it's open season.

On the other point about staged fights, much as I like Brad May I'm not a fan of those either. I'm fine without the off-the-faceoff bouts; I just really want to see someone who will ring the bell when Hartnell (for example) throws a nasty cross-check to the back of the head after the play, dirty hit in the corner, etc. at one of our scorers.

#60 GMRwings1983

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 03:52 PM

Depends....

Is Zetterberg a fighter? He has fought before. What's your definition of a fighter?


A guy who fights over 5 fights a season regularly.
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