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#61 stevkrause

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:11 PM

Exelby is no slower then Lilja, not bad positionally and definitley WAY better then Lilja when he first came here, still a huge hitter, not a regular healthy scratch hardly at all, he's younger then Lilja and much better then when Lilja came here. He's also twice as tough as Lilja ever was.

Oh and he's not going to be very pricy at all. Youre acting like we're replacing Lidstrom with Exelby. He doesn't score, neither does Lilja, but he hits like a truck and fights. He might be a little worst positionally now but he is definitely much better then when Lilly came here and he can still be taught since he is only 28.

Whats wrong with that?

That's my thought - don't get me wrong, I'd welcome back Lils with welcome arms and don't think Exelby is a HUGE upgrade, but still an upgrade nonetheless and I think Exelby would be a nice addition...

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Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#62 Lidstromboli

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:21 PM

Exelby is no slower then Lilja, not bad positionally and definitley WAY better then Lilja when he first came here


I'd say he's marginally slower than Lilja. Problem is he's not nearly as efficient in his movements as Lilja is. Not bad positionally? He goes out of position to make hits more often than not. Whether or not he is currently better than Lilja was in the past is a completely irrelevant point that doesn't have to do with how good Lilja is now.

still a huge hitter, not a regular healthy scratch hardly at all, he's younger then Lilja and much better then when Lilja came here. He's also twice as tough as Lilja ever was.


He might still be a huge hitter, but the regularity of those hits has been decreasing for some time since his concussion. He just isn't effective anymore. Not a regular healthy scratch? He was scratched for 31 games this past season. He seemed to have injury problems in Atlanta though, so I was kind of wrong on that part. Youth means absolutely nothing when Exelby wouldn't be anything more than a 1 or 2 year plug. Twice as tough as Lilja? He sure does intimidate :ph34r:

Oh and he's not going to be very pricy at all. Youre acting like we're replacing Lidstrom with Exelby. He doesn't score, neither does Lilja, but he hits like a truck and fights.


You know why he won't be pricey? Because he's a borderline-NHL player who was previously overpaid. I'm not acting like we're replacing with Lidstrom with him either. We're replacing a better defenseman (not BIG HITTER AND FIGHTER) in Lilja with a significantly worse one in Exelby. Measuring offense in goals for a 6th defenseman is silly. It's all about the ability to make good outlet passes and keeping it simple, which are things that are way over Exelby's head.

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#63 newfy

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:32 PM

I'd say he's marginally slower than Lilja. Problem is he's not nearly as efficient in his movements as Lilja is. Not bad positionally? He goes out of position to make hits more often than not. Whether or not he is currently better than Lilja was in the past is a completely irrelevant point that doesn't have to do with how good Lilja is now.



He might still be a huge hitter, but the regularity of those hits has been decreasing for some time since his concussion. He just isn't effective anymore. Not a regular healthy scratch? He was scratched for 31 games this past season. He seemed to have injury problems in Atlanta though, so I was kind of wrong on that part. Youth means absolutely nothing when Exelby wouldn't be anything more than a 1 or 2 year plug. Twice as tough as Lilja? He sure does intimidate :ph34r:



You know why he won't be pricey? Because he's a borderline-NHL player who was previously overpaid. I'm not acting like we're replacing with Lidstrom with him either. We're replacing a better defenseman (not BIG HITTER AND FIGHTER) in Lilja with a significantly worse one in Exelby. Measuring offense in goals for a 6th defenseman is silly. It's all about the ability to make good outlet passes and keeping it simple, which are things that are way over Exelby's head.

He makes big hits with regularity and sure maybe he's out of position when he makes some but not always. No more then Kronwall is when he makes a big hit.

This past season there was a huge logjam at defense in TO and there team was trying to shake things up a lot. They had like 14 defenseman it seemed like at some points in the year. Age is a factor because if he does well and can provide some tughness and hitting from the backend he could end up here full time til he retires for all we know.

How do you know if players out there aren't keeping their head up for Exelby? They definitely do more then they do for Lilja. And as for replacing a better defenseman, we're not replacing a much better defenseman just slightly better that has played like 15 games the last year. Lilja was here to be a tough defender, make hits and stick up for the goalie not his offensive ability. We're replacing our crease clearing tough dman with a tougher, younger, grittier tough dman that has all the tools to be better then Lilja in a year or 2. Exelby isn't incapable of an outlet pass or anything like that, he is a better then average 6th dman in this league and would be the best replacement out there for Lilja's role probably.

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#64 Lidstromboli

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:33 PM

Well alright then. I've already made all of my points and used up my decent post quota for the year. :)

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#65 Crymson

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 03:03 PM

He makes big hits with regularity and sure maybe he's out of position when he makes some but not always. No more then Kronwall is when he makes a big hit.


He hasn't made a big hit in two seasons. As for your point about Kronwall: it has been a long while since I saw Kronwall commit a defensive error in going for a hit in an NHL game. Further, he's very mobile and can easily get himself back into the play; Exelby is not and cannot.

This past season there was a huge logjam at defense in TO and there team was trying to shake things up a lot. They had like 14 defenseman it seemed like at some points in the year. Age is a factor because if he does well and can provide some tughness and hitting from the backend he could end up here full time til he retires for all we know.


Toronto had a logjam at defense last year, yes; they had eight defensemen who played a significant number of games, though two of those---Komisarek and Finger---were injured, and one---Phaneuf---wasn't on the team until more than halfway into the season. Toronto, in sum, had some decent defenseman and some very crappy defensemen. Those in the latter group were rotated in and out of the lineup. Exelby was one of the crappy ones, and it would appear that he was forced out of the lineup when injured defensemen returned.

How do you know if players out there aren't keeping their head up for Exelby? They definitely do more then they do for Lilja. And as for replacing a better defenseman, we're not replacing a much better defenseman just slightly better that has played like 15 games the last year. Lilja was here to be a tough defender, make hits and stick up for the goalie not his offensive ability. We're replacing our crease clearing tough dman with a tougher, younger, grittier tough dman that has all the tools to be better then Lilja in a year or 2. Exelby isn't incapable of an outlet pass or anything like that, he is a better then average 6th dman in this league and would be the best replacement out there for Lilja's role probably.


Lilja's role is to block shots, to kill penalties and to be a decent and responsible and fairly well-rounded 6th defenseman. Indeed, Lilja---although I never liked him---was one of our better shot-blockers and did well on the PK. When compared defensively to Exelby, Lilja is a titan; Exelby is not a skilled shot-blocker; he is not a good penalty-killer; and he cannot pass to save his life. Some of you have this idea that all a 6th defenseman needs to do is hit, and that is a totally ridiculous notion. Exelby cannot perform any role besides hitting and fighting; he is one-dimensional in the extreme, and that's why he was the odd man out in Toronto's lineup when the other defensemen were healthy .

It's just not in the character of Holland and Co to make stupid signings like this, and that's one of the reasons that the Wings remain such a well-balanced team. When was the last time any completely one-dimensional player besides an enforcer forward (i.e. Downey and May) was signed? Think about it. While you're thinking about it, remind yourself yet again that Exelby is utterly one-dimensional---and not just in lack of offense, but rather in the sense that the only thing he is above average in is in hitting, something that he's not as good at as he used to be.

Newfy: I know you want more physical players on the team, but you're really reaching here. You're making weak arguments and claims supported by no evidence. Don't get too hot on Holland signing Exelby, because it just won't be so. If he wants a Lilja-like defenseman to fill the 6th spot, it'll be Lilja. And I'd be surprised if anyone signs Exelby this summer.

#66 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 03:12 PM

I don't know much about Exelby but i do know if you are let go from toronto even a toronto team of last year then there has to be something wrong.
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#67 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 03:53 PM

I don't know much about Exelby but i do know if you are let go from toronto even a toronto team of last year then there has to be something wrong.


He was a real favourite of head coach Ron Wilson, especially after this; from National Post :

...
“Looking back, it was maybe a little better situation at times,” said Exelby, who the Thrashers traded to Toronto last summer. “I think I was playing in the top six at Atlanta.”
...

...
“I guess the way I look at it is that I’m in and out of the lineup,” he said. “For me personally, the hardest thing, the hardest punishment I guess you could call it is not playing and not getting ice time in the league. That’s the one thing I take to heart the most.”
...


Which gave us this:

...
“I’ve never ever heard a player say that before, have you?” he said. “Just play better, it’s as simple as that. And your numbers show if you played well or not and nobody’s entitled to ice time. Unfortunately, a lot of players today actually believe they’re entitled, no matter how their performance is, to just automatically play without accountability or responsibility. And we’re trying to win.”
...


I saw the video of this and it was a Wilson classic.

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#68 newfy

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:43 PM

He hasn't made a big hit in two seasons. As for your point about Kronwall: it has been a long while since I saw Kronwall commit a defensive error in going for a hit in an NHL game. Further, he's very mobile and can easily get himself back into the play; Exelby is not and cannot.



Toronto had a logjam at defense last year, yes; they had eight defensemen who played a significant number of games, though two of those---Komisarek and Finger---were injured, and one---Phaneuf---wasn't on the team until more than halfway into the season. Toronto, in sum, had some decent defenseman and some very crappy defensemen. Those in the latter group were rotated in and out of the lineup. Exelby was one of the crappy ones, and it would appear that he was forced out of the lineup when injured defensemen returned.



Lilja's role is to block shots, to kill penalties and to be a decent and responsible and fairly well-rounded 6th defenseman. Indeed, Lilja---although I never liked him---was one of our better shot-blockers and did well on the PK. When compared defensively to Exelby, Lilja is a titan; Exelby is not a skilled shot-blocker; he is not a good penalty-killer; and he cannot pass to save his life. Some of you have this idea that all a 6th defenseman needs to do is hit, and that is a totally ridiculous notion. Exelby cannot perform any role besides hitting and fighting; he is one-dimensional in the extreme, and that's why he was the odd man out in Toronto's lineup when the other defensemen were healthy .

It's just not in the character of Holland and Co to make stupid signings like this, and that's one of the reasons that the Wings remain such a well-balanced team. When was the last time any completely one-dimensional player besides an enforcer forward (i.e. Downey and May) was signed? Think about it. While you're thinking about it, remind yourself yet again that Exelby is utterly one-dimensional---and not just in lack of offense, but rather in the sense that the only thing he is above average in is in hitting, something that he's not as good at as he used to be.

Newfy: I know you want more physical players on the team, but you're really reaching here. You're making weak arguments and claims supported by no evidence. Don't get too hot on Holland signing Exelby, because it just won't be so. If he wants a Lilja-like defenseman to fill the 6th spot, it'll be Lilja. And I'd be surprised if anyone signs Exelby this summer.

Yeah we sign guys like Lilja, Cleary, Eaves, and Miller were all on the outs with their teams and their careers were in rough shape. Eaves couldn't play for Carolina(bad team), Lilja was on the outs from Florida(bad team), Miller was on the outs from Tampa bay(bad team) but a guy like Exelby who has all thet ools to be a solid text book 6th defenseman but might just need alittle fine tuning couldn't come here and do well for this team?

Everyone seems to think Lilja was as good as he is now as soon as he came here. He was god awful. Exelby is much better then what Lilja was when he first came here, he's younger then Lilja, Lilja has played about 15 games in the last year and may not even be able to handle a full length season anymore. But for some reason as a 6th or 7th defenseman we can't sign Exelby.

I don't think you guys have watched a lot of Toronto games this year but he's not that bad at all. Give him a year and he could be on the same level defensively as Lilja but tougher and stronger.

I don't just point out tough guys and say I want them. I point out guys that I tihnk would be good fits for the wings. I don't want Boogard(the toughest guy on the league) signed here as a free agent. I pick guys who can play tough but could also be a good fit for the team. Exelby could be a force the way he hits and can fight when he wants too. He's an element this team lacks on defense and if Holland wants to get tougher to play against its someone like him that will get signed on defense.

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#69 Crymson

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 05:34 PM

Yeah we sign guys like Lilja, Cleary, Eaves, and Miller were all on the outs with their teams and their careers were in rough shape. Eaves couldn't play for Carolina(bad team), Lilja was on the outs from Florida(bad team), Miller was on the outs from Tampa bay(bad team) but a guy like Exelby who has all thet ools to be a solid text book 6th defenseman but might just need alittle fine tuning couldn't come here and do well for this team?

Everyone seems to think Lilja was as good as he is now as soon as he came here. He was god awful. Exelby is much better then what Lilja was when he first came here, he's younger then Lilja, Lilja has played about 15 games in the last year and may not even be able to handle a full length season anymore. But for some reason as a 6th or 7th defenseman we can't sign Exelby.


You're not listening. Exelby is slow and he's one-dimensional. In what conceivable way does he possess "all of the tools to be a solid textbook defenseman"? What's your definition of that? The fact that he has a fully-functional, large-sized human body? He has shown nothing of ability besides hitting; he does nothing but hit, and he has apparently not even tried to reinvent himself---or perhaps he has tried but failed. And no, the fact that he's a hitter and fights at times doesn't make him better than Lilja was in '05-'06. I'm not sure what makes you think that he's automatically the superior player; in fact, that you're making said assessment leads me to believe that you know little of Exelby or that you've got some strange notion that hitting ability is all that is necessary to be a good defenseman. Odd, in any event. Whatever the case, Lilja made some bad mistakes at bad times, and he was nothing spectacular, but in general he was steady and he was capable of blocking shots and killing penalties, and he did those things well. Exelby cannot. He is a bruiser and nothing else. It's fine if one of your 12 forwards is a one-dimensional player who gets five minutes a night, but that's not OK when it's one of your six defensemen.

Exelby just isn't good. He hits a lot (though not as much as he used to); that's his playstyle and that's all there is to him, and that what he has brought to the teams he has played on. He was bottom-pairing defenseman in Atlanta, and he wasn't good enough to be a consistent roster player in Toronto. There are other players out there who are better for the price, and that's all matters boil down to when it comes to signing a player.

It's odd that you're making the argument regarding Exelby being better than Lilja was when the latter first came here; that argument implies that Lilja is much better than he was when he first arrived on the team, and Lilja just so happens to be a free agent this summer. If Holland must sign a cheap #6 defenseman---provided that Kindl doesn't get the spot---or a #7 defenseman, who do you think will get the job? Will it be the one-dimensional washout, or will it be the known quantity who has proven himself a steady defenseman for a low price? I'll leave you to decide who is who.

Edited by Crymson, 09 June 2010 - 05:44 PM.


#70 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 06:50 PM

I don't know much about Exelby but i do know if you are let go from toronto even a toronto team of last year then there has to be something wrong.

Ya, that Larry Murphy guy was a bust we got from Toronto for future considerations.

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#71 newfy

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 07:12 PM

You're not listening. Exelby is slow and he's one-dimensional. In what conceivable way does he possess "all of the tools to be a solid textbook defenseman"? What's your definition of that? The fact that he has a fully-functional, large-sized human body? He has shown nothing of ability besides hitting; he does nothing but hit, and he has apparently not even tried to reinvent himself---or perhaps he has tried but failed. And no, the fact that he's a hitter and fights at times doesn't make him better than Lilja was in '05-'06. I'm not sure what makes you think that he's automatically the superior player; in fact, that you're making said assessment leads me to believe that you know little of Exelby or that you've got some strange notion that hitting ability is all that is necessary to be a good defenseman. Odd, in any event. Whatever the case, Lilja made some bad mistakes at bad times, and he was nothing spectacular, but in general he was steady and he was capable of blocking shots and killing penalties, and he did those things well. Exelby cannot. He is a bruiser and nothing else. It's fine if one of your 12 forwards is a one-dimensional player who gets five minutes a night, but that's not OK when it's one of your six defensemen.

Exelby just isn't good. He hits a lot (though not as much as he used to); that's his playstyle and that's all there is to him, and that what he has brought to the teams he has played on. He was bottom-pairing defenseman in Atlanta, and he wasn't good enough to be a consistent roster player in Toronto. There are other players out there who are better for the price, and that's all matters boil down to when it comes to signing a player.

It's odd that you're making the argument regarding Exelby being better than Lilja was when the latter first came here; that argument implies that Lilja is much better than he was when he first arrived on the team, and Lilja just so happens to be a free agent this summer. If Holland must sign a cheap #6 defenseman---provided that Kindl doesn't get the spot---or a #7 defenseman, who do you think will get the job? Will it be the one-dimensional washout, or will it be the known quantity who has proven himself a steady defenseman for a low price? I'll leave you to decide who is who.


Exelby isn't just a hitter though. He blocks shots just as good as Lilja. His last year in Atlanta he only played 59 games he had 100 blocked shots, 151 hits, and was only a minus 2 on a horrible team, a team that Kovalchuk was a -12 on. That isn't that bad at all. He also played over 16 minutes a game which is 4th defenseman time pretty much.

Lilja played 60 games in 08/09 so the games played is pretty much a wash. He only had 95 hits, 92 blocked shots and he did all of that as well in 16 minutes of playing time per game. The only thing Lilja beat him in was +/- but he was also on a much better team defensively.

They play played almost exactly the same amount of games that season, the same amount of ice time per game and Exelby has more blocked shots(marginally) and way more hits.

Oh yeah and they both played big parts on their teams penalty kill. The stats don't lie, Exelby blocks shots just as well as Lilja and he definitely hits way more. You throw in the fact thath e can fight and it makes him even more valuable to the team.

These stats also come from when Exelby was in Atlanta and Lilja had time to develop a niche on a great team in Detroit. With those stats, a younger age Exelby could be much better after learning some real defense in Detroit like Lilja did.

Edited by newfy, 09 June 2010 - 07:22 PM.

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#72 Mors

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 07:21 PM

Isn't Rafalski a one-dimensional player? He certainly doesn't play defense. How about Ericsson, zero dimensions?

If you want Lilja back, just say it, I don't think you need an essay to justify your viewpoint that we don't need any tough defensemen.

#73 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 07:32 PM

Here's what I hope, if Holland does re-sign Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller & Lilja (we know he's siging Abby and Helm, thats a no brainer.) I just hope he does it all while leaving a couple million just in case we need to get "THAT" player come trade deadline. It will be nice to be able to actgually make a trade without worrying about salary for salary. If we are going to ice the same team this year outside of the additions of Hudler/Ritola & Kindl, two of which wont get too much playing time, it'll be nice to have those couple of million available. Maybe if Lilja doesn't work out, then we can get that 6th defensman.

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#74 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 07:48 PM

Isn't Rafalski a one-dimensional player? He certainly doesn't play defense. How about Ericsson, zero dimensions?

If you want Lilja back, just say it, I don't think you need an essay to justify your viewpoint that we don't need any tough defensemen.

IF anyone needs to waive his no trade clause, it's rafalski. I dont want them to re-sign lilja either, but last seasons timely surege into the playoffs just happened to coincide with Lilja's return so I do believe Holland may offer him back, I just hope it's for under a million so if we need, we can use the cap space at the deadline. I am not convinced Kindl is gonna make it, but I was wrong about Howard, so I hope I am wrong about him.

Oh, and guys/gals, for the record, as much as dont like the guy, I hope I am wrong about Hudler and hope he does great the next two years here...

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#75 hockey23

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 09:55 PM

Isn't Rafalski a one-dimensional player? He certainly doesn't play defense. How about Ericsson, zero dimensions?

If you want Lilja back, just say it, I don't think you need an essay to justify your viewpoint that we don't need any tough defensemen.


ya Rafalski plays no defense, he's only16th in the league and 1st on the Wings with a +23

#76 blueadams

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:23 AM

Take the deal or retire, kthx buuuuurt.


ugh.

that gives us, what?

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Helm-Cleary
Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves
Draper
(Ritola)

Lidstrom-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Kindl-Ericsson
Meech

Howard
Osgood

imo...that team's not good enough to win it all...even with a grining 4th line forward and a grinding sixth/seventh defensemen aded.

#77 Legendary D In 03

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:19 PM

Did the cap hit that they offered Bert ever leak?
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#78 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:18 PM

The Wings need a guy who's best attribute is their positioning and defense. They need a veteran who can anchor Ericsson's play and allow him to play his game without worrying about getting burned as much (something Lilja was ok for but Lebda was horrible for). Ericsson is an offensive d-man by nature so they need someone who can be the Stuart to his Kronwall (so to speak).
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#79 KDDRWINGS1

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:04 PM

He'll sign for that deal. He doesn't care about the money.

I wish more players felt that way. This is the kind of deal he needs since hasn't stuck anywhere for a few years. Hopefully there's some cash left over for Big Arty or Prospal.

#80 Lamothe

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:12 PM

When was the last time any completely one-dimensional player besides an enforcer forward (i.e. Downey and May) was signed? Think about it.


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