How much better would we be looking with Leino and Kopecky

[55fan 5,133]

is number two that he skates like Bambi?

I was thinking "obedience of the law of gravity", but I can make that number three.

Edit for mine grammar.

Edited June 12, 2010 by 55fan

[softshoes 83]

Shoot me now.

There is never a bad time for some "shoot me now".

[Ram 240]

Kopecky is awful. Leino was worth a can of beans while he was here. Should've hung on to him in GR for a little longer - but I'm sure you would've made the right call right? Kenny really has blown it terribly as a GM. :flamingmad:

[magicaldatsyuk 6]

stupid post, neither player was a good fit for detroit which is why they got rid of them..

[Konnan511 1,736]

Anyone notice a trend how every player that leaves the wings plays better? Look at Quincey, Sammy, Kopecky, Leino.. all of them!

Because not as much was asked them after they left, as in, they only had to play one dimensional type of game or they got superior linemates.

Kope got points because he played on the PP and with Hossa. Quincey played better because he got top 4 minutes and PP time. Leino got PP time and never had to play defense. Sammy played with the Sedins and got PP time.

Basically, if you leave the Wings you get PP time and points.

[Off the Post 11]

I do believe and respect Holland for letting him because he wasn't producing anything for Detroit, and i knew he would become a better play just needed time.

Anyone who says hes look on the line hes on with Philly is complete idiot, i dunno if you watching the game or not but your funny. I wish he was still here but if he didn't produce , what can you do.

[Manoir 70]

I don't know why Holland gets praise for getting guys like Cleary but then gets a pass for trading Leino. You can't praise him for seeing the potential in Cleary while at the same time absolve him of any blame for trading Leino under excuses such as well he had to dump salary,or he wasn't a good fit. If he really thought Leino had really good potential he would've moved other contracts,period. The Vancouver Canucks can use the same excuse for trading Neely, the Flames for trading Hull, oh well some players just play better elsewhere.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Manoir

[titanium2 867]

I don't know why Holland gets praise for getting guys like Cleary but then gets a pass for trading Leino. You can't praise him for seeing the potential in Cleary while at the same time absolve him of any blame for trading Leino under excuses such as well he had to dump salary,or he wasn't a good fit. If he really thought Leino had really good potential he would've moved other contracts,period. The Vancouver Canucks can use the same excuse for trading Neely, the Flames for trading Hull, oh well some players just play better elsewhere.

Well, Leino was really the only asset they had of trade value that they were somewhat willing to give up. Holland had to trade Leino given the situation.

Williams, however, had a 1.5 cap hit and had no trade value. Nobody wanted him and he was taking up space that would've allowed Leino to stay a Red Wing. Re-signing him was a move that Wings fans not only hated from day one but also thought it wasn't much of an option. That's where you can blame Holland.

[13dangledangle 960]

...this would've work cap-wise

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Filppula-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Leino-Abdelkader-Kopecky

Draper

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Lilja

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

looks like a championship squad to me.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Abdelkader-Cleary/Ritola

Draper-Helm-Eaves

There you go.

[Manoir 70]

Well, Leino was really the only asset they had of trade value that they were somewhat willing to give up. Holland had to trade Leino given the situation.

Williams, however, had a 1.5 cap hit and had no trade value. Nobody wanted him and he was taking up space that would've allowed Leino to stay a Red Wing. Re-signing him was a move that Wings fans not only hated from day one but also thought it wasn't much of an option. That's where you can blame Holland.

It's not just the Williams contract, but the Draper/Maltby contracts as well.

[Barrie 900]

Leino was useless here and had to go. Lucky for Leino he played on a tough line in Philly which helped Leino. He'd still be useless here, thus, he had to go.

Kopeckey??!? Seriously?

That bum is grossly overpaid. Kopecky for $1.5 mil or Berttuzzi for $1.5 million? You decide.

Only mistake Holland made was signing Jason Williams. Then again, Williams was coming off a 47 point season. *If* he played to the same potential, he'd been considered a 'steal'.

Can't fault Kenny on anything. After all, Red Wings have never missed the playoffs, plus he won the Stanley Cups a couple times with the Detroit Red Wings under his watch.

Kenny Holland continues to keep this organization cup contenders year after year after year after....

Agree 100%

Edit: A quick add about Williams, he was injured last year, can't fault Kenny for that.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Barrie

[Barrie 900]

Because not as much was asked them after they left, as in, they only had to play one dimensional type of game or they got superior linemates.

Kope got points because he played on the PP and with Hossa. Quincey played better because he got top 4 minutes and PP time. Leino got PP time and never had to play defense. Sammy played with the Sedins and got PP time.

Basically, if you leave the Wings you get PP time and points.

Right, they weren't getting the minutes on the Wings playing behind guys like Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Rafaski, Filp, Cleary, Holmstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, etc.

Who do we want playing important minutes here, the guys I just listed, or Kopecky, Leino, and Quincey? Also, Sammy we had to let go because of the cap.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Barrie

[Guest mjtm77]

leino would not do good on the fourth line and I hate kopecky

[Nev 1,085]

How much better would we be looking with Leino and Kopecky

Not much.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

yeah leino was only playing well because he was playing on a line with tough gritty guys like briere and hartnell

[NGKEIB 32]

I agree that right now Draper's contract isn't looking too good. I don't see what the problem is with Maltby's contract, however. If I could pick between the two right now, I would take Maltby. He proved that he can still play on the PK. Don't forget he led our team in goalscoring at one point in the season.

[titanium2 867]

I agree that right now Draper's contract isn't looking too good. I don't see what the problem is with Maltby's contract, however. If I could pick between the two right now, I would take Maltby. He proved that he can still play on the PK. Don't forget he led our team in goalscoring at one point in the season.

He also scored 50 goals in juniors.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Don't forget he led our team in goalscoring at one point in the season.

I mentioned this to Zetterberg and he gave me a curt two-word answer.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Somewhere in French Canada, Martin Lapointe is lifting weights and grooming his beard, wondering what happened to his career ever since he left Detroit.

Although, he did get paid big bucks by Boston, so maybe it wasn't a total failure for him.

He's probably chillin with Mathieu Dandenault.

...this would've work cap-wise

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Filppula-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Leino-Abdelkader-Kopecky

Draper

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Lilja

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

looks like a championship squad to me.

You know what,that does look like a championship ballerina team.Good call.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

You've got to kidding me !!! ... not another one ...

[Guest Crymson]

...this would've work cap-wise

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Filppula-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Leino-Abdelkader-Kopecky

Draper

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Lilja

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

looks like a championship squad to me.

Gee, failure of Holland to read the future and retain players who were completely lazy and useless at the time they were let go!

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Gee, failure of Holland to read the future and retain players who were completely lazy and useless at the time they were let go!

I know.fire kenny.

[Guest Crymson]

Anyone notice a trend how every player that leaves the wings plays better? Look at Quincey, Sammy, Kopecky, Leino.. all of them!

And Fedorov! And Lapointe! And Lang! And Schneider!! And so many others! And there have NEVER been any players who have been terrible prior to coming to the Wings but flourished in Detroit, right???!

Oh, and I'll go over this for you, because you seem to be slow:

Quincey: No idea, but he absolutely sucked with the Wings.

Sammy: Played with the Sedins.

Kopecky: Played with 1st/2nd-line players and still didn't produce much.

Leino: Played with players who did all the hard work. He took shots at the net and they drove the net to get the rebounds.

Were you actually being serious here?

I don't know why Holland gets praise for getting guys like Cleary but then gets a pass for trading Leino. You can't praise him for seeing the potential in Cleary while at the same time absolve him of any blame for trading Leino under excuses such as well he had to dump salary,or he wasn't a good fit. If he really thought Leino had really good potential he would've moved other contracts,period. The Vancouver Canucks can use the same excuse for trading Neely, the Flames for trading Hull, oh well some players just play better elsewhere.

Hey, look! One of the this forum's kings of nonsensical complaining is back! Hey, man!

Edited June 13, 2010 by Crymson

[Finnish Wing 110]

And Fedorov! And Lapointe! And Lang! And Schneider!! And so many others! And there have NEVER been any players who have been terrible prior to coming to the Wings but flourished in Detroit, right???!

Oh, and I'll go over this for you, because you seem to be slow:

Quincey: No idea.

Sammy: Played with the Sedins.

Kopecky: Played with 1st/2nd-line players and still didn't produce much.

Leino: Played with players who did all the hard work. He took shots at the net and they drove the net to get the rebounds.

Were you actually being serious here?

Haha. This sooo wrong.

Every Flyers fan said that whichever line he was put into immediately started rolling. I don't complain about your other arguments because I don't know about them enough, but this is total bulls***. He was the engine of the line.

And I think it's a good thing many players become better after they play with us. Shows what kinda system we have and probably more players choose DRW because of that as well.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

And Fedorov! And Lapointe! And Lang! And Schneider!! And so many others! And there have NEVER been any players who have been terrible prior to coming to the Wings but flourished in Detroit, right???!

Oh, and I'll go over this for you, because you seem to be slow:

Quincey: No idea, but he absolutely sucked with the Wings.

Sammy: Played with the Sedins.

Kopecky: Played with 1st/2nd-line players and still didn't produce much.

Leino: Played with players who did all the hard work. He took shots at the net and they drove the net to get the rebounds.

Were you actually being serious here?

Hey, look! One of the this forum's kings of nonsensical complaining is back! Hey, man!

Based on what I saw in the Finals I disagree on your Leino assesment but otherwise you're on the money.