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wingsownnhl43

The Next Wave

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Alright LGW, Im bored and just trying to stir up some conversation.

As we all know the Red Wings were able to successfully rebuilt on the fly by transitioning from the '97, '98, '02 championships to a very different core that won in '08 (exception is Lidstrom, OZzie, Drapes, Malts, Mac). This was pretty much unthinkable for modern day sports, as the transition was pretty much seemless. I know that the current core is not done contending, however my question to you all is this. Are we set up to rebuild on the fly again? We have the same management with an incredible track record of finding talent late.

I think to be a legiitmate contender you have to have two very good lines, secondary scoring which isnt hard to obtain when you have two solid lines in place, two top D pairings, and obviously a solid goalie.

Currently,

Pavel Datsyuk is 31

Henrik Zetterberg is 29

Johan Franzen is 30

Valtteri Filppula is 26

Jiri Hudler is 26

Tomas Holmstrom is 37

Nick Lidstrom is 40

Brian Rafalski is 36

Nick Kronwall 29

Brad Stuart 30

Jimmy Howard is 26

Right now, in place, I really do think Jimmy Howard can be a SC quality goalie. He obviously has to improve from what we saw this playoff, but i think he can.

Other than that, with the exception of Nick, Raffi, and Homer, everyone is still in their prime so we have a few years to incorporate the next wave of talent. Hudler and Flip are top 6 players and they are still young.

Getting to the point of this rambled thread, do we have top six forwards or top four defenseman in the system? People are high on Tatar and Nyquist. I have my doubts on Kindl, Ericcson, and Brendan Smith.

What say you, LGW?

Edited by wingsownnhl43

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Alright LGW, Im bored and just trying to stir up some conversation.

As we all know the Red Wings were able to successfully rebuild on the fly by transitioning from the '98, '99, '02 championships to a very different core that won in '08 (exception is Lidstrom, OZzie, Drapes, Malts, Mac). This was pretty much unthinkable for modern day sports, as the transition was pretty much seemless. I know that the current core is not done contending, however my question to you all is this. Are we set up to rebuild on the fly again? We have the same management with an incredible track record of finding talent late.

I think to be a legiitmate contender you have to have two very good lines, secondary scoring which isnt hard to obtain when you have two solid lines in place, two top D pairings, and obviously a solid goalie.

Currently,

Pavel Datsyuk is 31

Henrik Zetterberg is 29

Johan Franzen is 30

Valtteri Filppula is 26

Jiri Hudler is 26

Tomas Holmstrom is 37

Nick Lidstrom is 40

Brian Rafalski is 36

Nick Kronwall 29

Brad Stuart 30

Jimmy Howard is 26

Right now, in place, I really do think Jimmy Howard can be a SC quality goalie. He obviously has to improve from what we saw this playoff, but i think he can.

Other than that, with the exception of Nick, Raffi, and Homer, everyone is still in their prime so we have a few years to incorporate the next wave of talent. Hudler and Flip are top 6 players and they are still young.

Getting to the point of this rambled thread, do we have top six forwards or top four defenseman in the system? People are high on Tatar and Nyquist. I have my doubts on Kindl, Ericcson, and Brendan Smith.

What say you, LGW?

it was 97 98 02 08....

and i think we have plenty of guys coming through that will be quality NHL players in a few years starting with

Tatar LW

Emmerton C

Ferraro RW

Axelsson LW

Nyquist C

Nestasil RW

and on D we will have

Smith Kindl

Almqvist Lashoff

Kolosov Pyatt

and McCollum is going to be a STUD

i personally think we have a very bright future

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at any rate I think that Tatar can be a force once he develops, which might not take that long. We might have to do this the old fashioned way and do it via free agency and look for some talent that way too.

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I think the real impact forwards will be Tatar and Nyquist, with an honorable mention to Mursak if his hands catch up with his speed.

Right now Smith and Lashoff look good on D, Pyett had a good year too. I think I'm over-hyping them, but I feel like Smith-Lashoff could be a huge pairing for Grand Rapids next year.

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What interest/concerns me most is whether Datsyuk and Zetterberg can pass off what they learned from Yzerman, Hull, et al to the next wave. That is what is most important. Sure D and Z had talent before they came here, but so did guys like Patrick Stefan and Alexandre Daigle. Unfortunately for the latter they did not learn the game from Hall of Famers like the late-round also rans we have here in Detroit.

Datsyuk can barely speak English, though he's probably better than he lets on, but unless we gets some young Russians he will be limited in his ability to teach the kids. Zetterberg can speak well, and he certainly has the personal dedication to excellence, but I wonder sometimes if he has what it takes to lead like Yzerman and Lidstrom. Perhaps I'm holding him to too high a standard at this point, but sometimes he seems bored with life, especially during interviews, and I wonder how he is in the locker room.

We all know how Hull really took Datsyuk under his wing, and there was a real nurturing of the younger by the older. Watching them on the bench I really got the impression that Hull cared about Pavel's development, and that Pavel really looked up to and respected Brett. That's the kind of leadership we'll need here to keep this party going.

F.Michael and Cheveldae32 like this

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I think the real impact forwards will be Tatar and Nyquist, with an honorable mention to Mursak if his hands catch up with his speed.

They need a center for those guys. Tatar and Nyquist aren't natural centermen as far as I know. They can play some spot up duty in the middle but Tatar is a LW and Nyquist plays RW for Maine.

I hope that's what they find in this year's draft. Ferraro is listed at center but I doubt he'll be a center at the NHL level if he wants to play in the top six.

EDIT ADD: The Wings don't really have any top six centers in their prospect pool.

-Helm is a bottom six center.

-Andersson, Abdelkader and Ferraro are more of a bottom six center at the NHL level that can fill in as a top six center during injuries.

-Emmerton hasn't even made the top six in GR in two years.

-Raedeke is another bottom six center.

It'd be nice if they could get some flat out top six centers this year but I know every team wants those guys.

Edited by titanium2

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<br>I think to be a legiitmate contender you have to have two very good lines, secondary scoring which isnt hard to obtain when you have two solid lines in place,  two top D pairings, and obviously a solid goalie.<br>
<br><br><br>

<div>     If you look back at the cup winners of past the part of there game that excels there opponent is rolling 3 lines that can score and 1 thrown in to wear them down.   Who was our third line two years ago? I cant remember...Flip, Huds, Sammy ? </div><div> </div><div>                      Anywho I do believe we need to add a secondary scorer, someone like I think Huds is (just bigger), someone who can guarantee at least 20 goals and set up at least 30 as well.  This other mystery scorer would enable Z&D back together, because that should be our biggest threat.    We find this man for a good price and we win.  I think Afinogenov would work until Tartar is ready, I like what him and Dats would bring together, not to mention having Hank there too.<img src="http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/hehe.gif" alt=":hehe:" class="bbc_emoticon"></div>

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am I the only one that won't be suprised if Howard struggles next season?

Nope. I expect Howard to go through a sophomore slump. He's not immune to it in my view. I just hope he bounces back well for every game and that Osgood has a good year.

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Nope. I expect Howard to go through a sophomore slump. He's not immune to it in my view. I just hope he bounces back well for every game and that Osgood has a good year.

Far from starting it, but just from the talk here you know its going to be a long in the tooth year.

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Far from starting it, but just from the talk here you know its going to be a long in the tooth year.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

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I don't know if we have good enough prospects to make the transition as easily as we did last time but we have guys who will help. Tatar, Nyquist, Ferraro and Nestrasil all could be good top 6 players. They might not be quite on star level however so we may need to add a big name guy through trade or free agency to get us back to top notch talent level. Adding a defenseman might be the biggest thing we need because I don't see any potential number 1 studs in the system. Smith could be on rafalki's level but I think we need to either draft or sign that number 1 stud defenseman in the next 3 years to really stay at the top of the NHL consistently.

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They need a center for those guys. Tatar and Nyquist aren't natural centermen as far as I know. They can play some spot up duty in the middle but Tatar is a LW and Nyquist plays RW for Maine.

I hope that's what they find in this year's draft. Ferraro is listed at center but I doubt he'll be a center at the NHL level if he wants to play in the top six.

EDIT ADD: The Wings don't really have any top six centers in their prospect pool.

-Helm is a bottom six center.

-Andersson, Abdelkader and Ferraro are more of a bottom six center at the NHL level that can fill in as a top six center during injuries.

-Emmerton hasn't even made the top six in GR in two years.

-Raedeke is another bottom six center.

It'd be nice if they could get some flat out top six centers this year but I know every team wants those guys.

Future top6 NHL centers are usually found in the top15 of the draft where wings never gets to pick

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Future top6 NHL centers are usually found in the top15 of the draft where wings never gets to pick

This year our pick is high enough that we could potentially grab a centerman if a good enough one falls to us. Macfarland could be a guy who falls but if he gets it together was considered to be right up there will Hall and Seguin last year. Howden might not be bad and should be available right around when we pick, Toffoli ad Pitlick mght fall too the wings and Bjustad could be there too.

I think out of all those guys Macfarland has the most chance to be a number one centerman with his skill set.

There is always free agency to pick up a number one center as well.

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This year our pick is high enough that we could potentially grab a centerman if a good enough one falls to us. Macfarland could be a guy who falls but if he gets it together was considered to be right up there will Hall and Seguin last year. Howden might not be bad and should be available right around when we pick, Toffoli ad Pitlick mght fall too the wings and Bjustad could be there too.

I think out of all those guys Macfarland has the most chance to be a number one centerman with his skill set.

There is always free agency to pick up a number one center as well.

Yeah McFarland would be great if he were to fall that far but I don't know about that. He'd go really well with Ferraro on the right wing.

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I think the real impact forwards will be Tatar and Nyquist, with an honorable mention to Mursak if his hands catch up with his speed.

Right now Smith and Lashoff look good on D, Pyett had a good year too. I think I'm over-hyping them, but I feel like Smith-Lashoff could be a huge pairing for Grand Rapids next year.

Absolutely nothing wrong with his hands.

Gee he is continously underrated. I can't wait until the day when Wings fans suddenly realise that we've got an elite talent in Mursak right on our doorstep. Mursak's speed + intensity + hands = gem.

Edited by Aussie_Wing

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Absolutely nothing wrong with his hands.

Gee he is continously underrated. I can't wait until the day when Wings fans suddenly realise that we've got an elite talent in Mursak right on our doorstep. Mursak's speed + intensity + hands = gem.

Yeah I think some people hear the comparison to Helm and think his hands need to catch up with his speed. Not true. The only comparable aspect of Mursak's game to Helm's is his flat out speed.

Grand Rapids Tatar-Andersson-Mursak FTW!!!!!!

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Yeah I think some people hear the comparison to Helm and think his hands need to catch up with his speed. Not true. The only comparable aspect of Mursak's game to Helm's is his flat out speed.

Grand Rapids Tatar-Andersson-Mursak FTW!!!!!!

How good would that be?

TBH I'm not sure what to make of Andersson, I've got no expectations of him for this upcoming season, so anything he produces will be encouraging. Seems like he's got a good attitude though which is good, and given he was often only receiving 10 mins per game in Sweden, he shouldn't have any troubles adapting with the Griffins where he'll likely get a bigger role.

Can't wait to see Mursak again next season, hopefully he can continue to build on the platform he set this season.

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Yea I agree with Aussie about Mursak, every griffins game I went to last year I was blown away by him. I said to my friend after one too many dollar beers, "Check out Jan the man, #13, he's just as fast as helm but doesn't have bricks for hands and can dangle at those top speeds."

I'm really excited to see him with the Wings, he deftly feeds the puck to teammates that they don't even see it coming and wiff on the open net (I've seen Rissmiller do this a lot).

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How good would that be?

TBH I'm not sure what to make of Andersson, I've got no expectations of him for this upcoming season, so anything he produces will be encouraging. Seems like he's got a good attitude though which is good, and given he was often only receiving 10 mins per game in Sweden, he shouldn't have any troubles adapting with the Griffins where he'll likely get a bigger role.

Can't wait to see Mursak again next season, hopefully he can continue to build on the platform he set this season.

Hakan Andersson compares him Filppula without the high-end speed. Last time the GR had a Filppula they did fairly well, ;).

But if he has the ability to make smart plays and cover the ice defensively so that Tatar and Mursak can shoulder the offense then that sounds like a good fit to me. Jocke can definitely make some good passes. Plus, Tatar and Mursak, while diminutive, have good enough attitudes and competitive streaks that gives them the ability to play a lot bigger than their size.

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What interest/concerns me most is whether Datsyuk and Zetterberg can pass off what they learned from Yzerman, Hull, et al to the next wave. That is what is most important. Sure D and Z had talent before they came here, but so did guys like Patrick Stefan and Alexandre Daigle. Unfortunately for the latter they did not learn the game from Hall of Famers like the late-round also rans we have here in Detroit.

Datsyuk can barely speak English, though he's probably better than he lets on, but unless we gets some young Russians he will be limited in his ability to teach the kids. Zetterberg can speak well, and he certainly has the personal dedication to excellence, but I wonder sometimes if he has what it takes to lead like Yzerman and Lidstrom. Perhaps I'm holding him to too high a standard at this point, but sometimes he seems bored with life, especially during interviews, and I wonder how he is in the locker room.

We all know how Hull really took Datsyuk under his wing, and there was a real nurturing of the younger by the older. Watching them on the bench I really got the impression that Hull cared about Pavel's development, and that Pavel really looked up to and respected Brett. That's the kind of leadership we'll need here to keep this party going.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but think about it. Dats has a good enough grasp of the language at this point to relay hockey information, and if he cant say it he could physically teach it. I feel that Dats already has shown that he shares wisdom with the youth, IMHO Huds is a prime example. Huds was really starting to hold the puck like datsyuk before he left.

Another Key factor here is the desire to learn. If the young guns want to be taught they will listen AND watch. A lot can be learned through watching a specific player or play during pratice and live games.

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