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Hudler+4th line grinder


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#21 stevkrause

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:55 AM

? I really dont get the hate for Rafi, if Lids leaves we NEED Rafi back there. He is a brilliant puck moving defensman who can send a pass out of the zone as well if not better then anyone in the league. I also still think, especially after his dominance at the Olympics, he should quarter back the second powerplay.

As for Huds plus a grinder this all depends to me on Bertuzzi (which sounds funny, and looks funny as I typed that lol) but honestly Bert has impressed me this past year, he has great size, hands, shot and he has worked on speed as well. He is a GREAT top 6 guy if we can sign him soon. Huds will help alot and we have more 4 liners then we need already if you ask me. I would rather Miller/Eaves be that guy.

The problem with Raffi are his turnovers and lack of size for his price tag - not saying I agree, I'm just saying I can see where some of the negativity comes from... with that said, I think he is GREAT for what he does, as you stated, and I really think both he and Lids would benefit GREATLY by splitting them up and putting a physical counterpart with them, not to mention, I thought Stuart and Rafalski complemented one another VERY well....
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Ericsson-Lilja/UFA
Kindl

PP:
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Ericsson-Rafalski

Edited by stevkrause, 14 June 2010 - 08:56 AM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#22 titanium2

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:02 AM

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#23 stevkrause

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:12 AM

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"I don't get it..."

"It's a joke"

"oh, I get jokes"

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#24 eva unit zero

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:53 AM

When he played on the 3rd line,he was mostly playing against other 3rd lines.He's gonna be competing with better players if he plays on the 2nd line.


Ok, here's a question I have been dying to ask.

People keep saying guys like Hudler and Bertuzzi are bad fits for the 3rd line because they aren't checking, defensive players. Instead they are players who play less of a defensive game and more of an offensive game, and are more suited to the top two lines.

Yet at the same time, the same people say "Hudler only scored like he did on the third line because he was playing against other teams' third lines."

Now to me, that seems like a contradiction. Hudler is supposedly playing against the line that the Hudler-haters are saying should be your best defensive line, and scoring well regardless of his linemates. Shouldn't that mean he would put up better point totals against the opposing team's top lines, as they aren't as skilled defensively?

Maybe it's just be, but I always thought 1+2=3, not 1+2=1.

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#25 SweWings

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 11:02 AM

Gotta love that the same arguments come up between the exact same people whenever Hudler's name pops up in a thread. I think Hudler will be more than enough given that Detroit hopefully won't have the same injury issues like they did last season.

#26 mjtm77

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:19 PM

if stay heathly we will be a good team top 3 or 4. If we have as manny injuries as last year we may miss the playoffs
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#27 Bannedforlife

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 03:28 PM

I think if Cleary and Filppula don't improve next year,Kenny is gonna shake things up.

Do you really? He might move one of them next year if he doesn't see enough progress, but of the 30 GMs in the league, I'd say Kenny would be the least likely to ever "shake things up".

#28 newfy

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 03:31 PM

Do you really? He might move one of them next year if he doesn't see enough progress, but of the 30 GMs in the league, I'd say Kenny would be the least likely to ever "shake things up".

People say that because his whole time as GM he inherited a great team, and didn't have to do a whole lot to keep it great,(he isn't really god like some people think), now that the team is coming to a point where they may not be the best in the league without changes he might have to shake things up.

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#29 Bannedforlife

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 03:54 PM

People say that because his whole time as GM he inherited a great team, and didn't have to do a whole lot to keep it great,(he isn't really god like some people think), now that the team is coming to a point where they may not be the best in the league without changes he might have to shake things up.

I guess it depends on your definition of shake up. I believe Ken is the kind of GM who would never move one of his players once he has identified them as part of his core. Cleary doesn't fall into that group, but Flip and Kronwall certainly do. Even if he ever does decide to make some moves, I doubt it would happen next year. Lidstrom will most likely retire, and whoever he brings in as his replacement will be all the shaking we will see for a while.

Speaking of which, Weber, Doughty, Seabrook, Johnson, Schenn and Yandle will all be RFAs next year, and Markov and Chara will be UFAs. If Kenny were to pull off one of those promising RFAs with an offer sheet, I think that would be one of the most impressive things he has accomplished in his time as GM.

#30 Jesusberg

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:06 PM

The problem with Raffi are his turnovers and lack of size for his price tag - not saying I agree, I'm just saying I can see where some of the negativity comes from... with that said, I think he is GREAT for what he does, as you stated, and I really think both he and Lids would benefit GREATLY by splitting them up and putting a physical counterpart with them, not to mention, I thought Stuart and Rafalski complemented one another VERY well....


I completely agree with this. I think his play for the U.S. showed that when Rafalski is relied on heavily, he thrives. He almost respects Lidstrom TOO much and worries about getting the puck to him more. It also likely gets him into a mindset where he can screw up and Lids will be there to make-up for it anyway. I agree on the Lids-Kronwall and Stuart-Rafalski pairings 100%.

#31 eva unit zero

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 07:55 PM

I completely agree with this. I think his play for the U.S. showed that when Rafalski is relied on heavily, he thrives. He almost respects Lidstrom TOO much and worries about getting the puck to him more. It also likely gets him into a mindset where he can screw up and Lids will be there to make-up for it anyway. I agree on the Lids-Kronwall and Stuart-Rafalski pairings 100%.


Lids-Ericsson
Kronwall-Rafalski
Kindl-Stuart

Those should be the pairings. That way, Kindl and Ericsson can be allowed to make the mistakes a developing defenseman will make without forcing Howie or Oz to tear their shirt and tie off and wear silly tights and a cape just to stop a goal. Kronner and Rafalski would be a solid pair because it's two guys who can play both ways, and the opposing team can't really focus on one defenseman as 'the primary threat' because both are capable of becoming "the guy" if necessary.

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#32 InKennyWeTrust

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 10:55 AM

People say that because his whole time as GM he inherited a great team, and didn't have to do a whole lot to keep it great,(he isn't really god like some people think), now that the team is coming to a point where they may not be the best in the league without changes he might have to shake things up.


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#33 cjm502

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 11:56 AM

When he played on the 3rd line,he was mostly playing against other 3rd lines.He's gonna be competing with better players if he plays on the 2nd line.

Honestly, this has to be one of the stupidest arguments ever. So if you put Datsyuk on the 3rd line do you think his point production would increase just because he is matched up against worse players? I feel pretty safe saying it would drop. More ice time + more skilled linemates = more points.
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#34 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 12:09 PM

Ok, here's a question I have been dying to ask.

People keep saying guys like Hudler and Bertuzzi are bad fits for the 3rd line because they aren't checking, defensive players. Instead they are players who play less of a defensive game and more of an offensive game, and are more suited to the top two lines.

Yet at the same time, the same people say "Hudler only scored like he did on the third line because he was playing against other teams' third lines."

Now to me, that seems like a contradiction. Hudler is supposedly playing against the line that the Hudler-haters are saying should be your best defensive line, and scoring well regardless of his linemates. Shouldn't that mean he would put up better point totals against the opposing team's top lines, as they aren't as skilled defensively?

Maybe it's just be, but I always thought 1+2=3, not 1+2=1.

What I'm trying to get as is this:I don't want him on the team at all.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

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RIP Rick Rypien

#35 McAwesome

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 12:48 PM

I don't think that it is as simple as just adding Hudler and a 4th line grinder, though those are the most obvious. In order for the Red Wings to win the Cup on 2011, the following will have to happen:

1) Zetterberg and Datsyuk have to return to their former dominance. Both had disappointing years by their standards, and while they didn't play bad, their numbers were down in a season when we were counting on them more than ever with the loss of scoring depth. If the Eurotwins can get back to the 80-90 point range we will be back on top of the West

2) We cannot afford to have anywhere near the amount of injuries we sustained last season. Franzen, Filppula, and Kronwall would have been able to continue to build on the progress of recent years had they not missed half the season with injuries. Filppula and Franzen both returned to form eventually (Filppula was averaging almost a point per game for a stretch of 30 games, Franzen hit his stride in the playoffs as normal) but Kronwall looked tentative after returning from his knee sprain, which to me suggests that he never fully healed and was not able to play his style. If we can avoid major injuries keeping key players out of the lineup for long stretches we will be fine.

3) Hudler will put up points, we know that. If Bertuzzi is retained, he needs to be given a defined role, rather than being shuttled back and forth between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line duty. Obviously it was not the ideal situation last season due to injuries, but I think Todd will have a better season overall if he knows what his role is and has a chance to play it consistently. Hudler is the same thing, give him a role, let him stick to that role, and watch him flourish.

My ideal lines are as follows:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Hudler-Filppula-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Cleary
Eaves-Helm-Draper/Ritola/Nystrom/Moreau/Insert Free Agent Here

Lidstrom-Kronwall
Rafalski-Stuart
Ericsson-Lilja/Free Agent
Kindl

So many questions unanswered, July 1st can't come soon enough

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Thanks MabusIncarnate


#36 GMRwings1983

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 07:18 PM

This thread makes no sense.

Hudler is a 4th line grinder. :thumbup:
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#37 Hockey God

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 07:34 PM

bring in Carcillo

#38 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 07:48 PM

This thread makes no sense.

Hudler is a 4th line grinder. :thumbup:

He's not a 4th line grinder,silly.he's a goon.one of the few remaining of this rare breed left in the NHL.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#39 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 08:02 PM

Hudler's clucking talent alone will help the Wings win the Cup. :ph34r:

*shrugs*





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