2010 NHL Draft Thread

[newfy 695]

The premium scouting list is pretty old by the looks of it.

Yeah something isn't right about that list.

[redwingfan19 293]

The premium scouting list is pretty old by the looks of it.

judging by the comments at the bottom of the page it looks recent

[Drake_Marcus 890]

premium scouting top 100 , this one is interesting, some guys are ranked pretty low, while other are quite high

http://premiumscouting.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=3

My God. This guy is ranking skill over height!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Here's what that guy said about McIlrath:

66. Dylan McIlrath, Defense, Moose Jaw- WHL:

McIlrath is one player who most people seem very high on that I just can’t quite get a grasp on why that is. He’s a great physical specimen, coming in at 6’4 215 and is a beast on the ice and only has room to grow which is scarier. He uses his size almost too much, wrecking people along the boards and daring them to try and re-enter his defensive zone. Has a real mean streak and can get out of hand at times, see his 169 penalty minutes as an example. Good at battling, he will keep forwards out of the crease and also is a feared fighter. However his skating leaves a lot to be desired, as he can get beaten by WHL-level forwards to the outside, he has relatively no puck skills, a good, hard shot but he’s not going to be on anyone’s powerplay. Makes bad decisions at times in the offensive zone and can get caught flat-footed in the defensive zone. His hockey sense is decent, but the skating will really hurt him at the next level. He’s a nice physical package and I can see the appeal from one vantage point, but there’s so much he needs to improve upon that he’s a real risky pick.

Explanation: Having Dylan McIlrath this low may seem unusual to some, but the reasoning is while Dylan has a lot of desirable physical tools, I just don’t’ see him turning into a good, valuable hockey player at the NHL level. While he does have the potential, the chances of him reaching that require a ton of development in many areas. The role he would fill, which is a slow, tough, physical shutdown defender who fights, isn’t exactly a valuable thing worth investing a high pick or tons of development time into.

[titanium2 867]

What can the Wings give up in order to get the Islanders 5th pick? Apparently it's up for grabs if the right trade is there for them.

Maybe they can get Niederreiter with that 5th pick.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

It's pretty much exactly what I said about him. I'm not saying it's right but at least I'm not the only one who sees him as a 2nd rounder (or late 1st) instead of an early 1st.

[redwingfan19 293]

What can the Wings give up in order to get the Islanders 5th pick? Apparently it's up for grabs if the right trade is there for them.

Maybe they can get Niederreiter with that 5th pick.

probably a first, second, tatar and a later round pick. Not worth it IMO wings should be going after that 15th from florida

[Drake_Marcus 890]

What can the Wings give up in order to get the Islanders 5th pick? Apparently it's up for grabs if the right trade is there for them.

Maybe they can get Niederreiter with that 5th pick.

We'd have to pay out of our ass for a top 5 pick.

[newfy 695]

Do you understand scouting at all? Guys who are huge and have elite talent will always go higher in the draft.

Let's break every kid down into three categories:

1. Talent

2. Size/Physical tools

3. Mental tools (hockey sense, attitude, etc)

If you're the Detroit Red Wings and you've yet to pick higher than 19th overall in 20 years you have to sacrifice something. So let's look at what you sacrifice:

Size:

If you sacrifice size you can still get away with it because, well, we all know how big Yzerman, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are. And that's not bigger than 5'11. Kane is a midget and is slight as well. He's weighs as much as a wet cat. He seems to have done ok for himself.

Examples: Skinner, Grandlund, Tarasenko, Weal

Talent:

You can sacrifice talent and draft a kid who's got great physical and mental tools but has a lower ceiling for growth. Will this get you a Cup winning team? I'm not sure, I only know that the last option (sacrificing size) can win you a Cup. I do know that these kids could get bigger and stronger but you can't teach talent so you have to hope the scouts missed something there.

Examples: McIlrath, Tinordi

Mental Tools:

Ok, so what if there's a kid who has the talent and size but might not have the drive or attitude? Or maybe the player has a low hockey IQ (McFarland for example). Well you have to bank on the fact that their attitude problems are a maturity issue and that that will come with time, or that they just need a strong system to help them get on track. These kids are either home-runs or busts.

Examples: Kabanov (attitude), McFarland (hockey IQ)

What do you do? The Wings aren't picking in the top 15 so realistically you have to sacrifice something. Talent is the one thing you just can't sacrifice in my opinion because you can't teach it or significantly overcome a lack of it with hard work.

If you wanna take a risk with someone who doesn't have the mental tools take it with Macfarland. His skill set is right up there with Kabanov but the difference is to go along with Kabanovs mental issues he has the chance of going to the KHL. We at least know Macfarland won't dothat and he could be an elite talent as well.

His skill set is right up there with anyone in the draft but he's slipping probably. Its not so much the prima donna attitude of Kabanov that bugs me but its the KHL/Russian factor that does.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I'm feeling like the Wings will go after Johan Larsson if he's around by the time they pick in the 2nd.

If you wanna take a risk with someone who doesn't have the mental tools take it with Macfarland. His skill set is right up there with Kabanov but the difference is to go along with Kabanovs mental issues he has the chance of going to the KHL. We at least know Macfarland won't dothat and he could be an elite talent as well.

His skill set is right up there with anyone in the draft but he's slipping probably. Its not so much the prima donna attitude of Kabanov that bugs me but its the KHL/Russian factor that does.

I'm actually not a MacFarland fan (I just used him as an example). From what I've read he's got a low hockey IQ and is too one note.

[newfy 695]

I'm feeling like the Wings will go after Johan Larsson if he's around by the time they pick in the 2nd.

Depending on who they take in the first round I want them to take Brad Ross in the second. If they get someone like Tinordi/Mcilrath in the first then Ross won't really matter but if they do end up taking someone like SKinner/Kabanov/Etem etc I really want them to take Ross

[Shaman 713]

If you wanna take a risk with someone who doesn't have the mental tools take it with Macfarland. His skill set is right up there with Kabanov but the difference is to go along with Kabanovs mental issues he has the chance of going to the KHL. We at least know Macfarland won't dothat and he could be an elite talent as well.

His skill set is right up there with anyone in the draft but he's slipping probably. Its not so much the prima donna attitude of Kabanov that bugs me but its the KHL/Russian factor that does.

Ok I understand you are retarded, I have learned to live with this fact, but just because a player is european/russian doesn't mean he will goto the KHL one day. Should the Wings write off every european player just because they might go to the KHL one day? s*** man, players make weird decisions everyday, there was a baseball player who became a priest, despite the fact he was a great prospect, and what about Pat Tillman who was a professional football player who decided to go into the army? It doesn't matter where you are from, you can always decide to do something else.

Depending on who they take in the first round I want them to take Brad Ross in the second. If they get someone like Tinordi/Mcilrath in the first then Ross won't really matter but if they do end up taking someone like SKinner/Kabanov/Etem etc I really want them to take Ross

Why are you so high on Mcilrath? Hes really not top 25... if the wings go after a defender they need someone who will be a 1-3 not a 4-6, and this guy stinks of bottom pairing defender.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Shaman464

[cjm502 165]

judging by the comments at the bottom of the page it looks recent

It might have been put up recently, but is is still way off. That is similar to the way some drafts looked early last season.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Depending on who they take in the first round I want them to take Brad Ross in the second. If they get someone like Tinordi/Mcilrath in the first then Ross won't really matter but if they do end up taking someone like SKinner/Kabanov/Etem etc I really want them to take Ross

I think they're waiting to see how Callahan turns out. He's only 18 and already has his first contract with the Wings. I'm excited to see how he can do-- he managed to improve his CHL numbers this year while still playing the role of pest/fighter. Ross sounds very similar to Callahan.

If they take a skill forward in the 1st I'd like to see a big shut-down d-man picked up in the 2nd or 3rd.

[newfy 695]

Ok I understand you are retarded, I have learned to live with this fact, but just because a player is european/russian doesn't mean he will goto the KHL one day. Should the Wings write off every european player just because they might go to the KHL one day? s*** man, players make weird decisions everyday, there was a baseball player who became a priest, despite the fact he was a great prospect, and what about Pat Tillman who was a professional football player who decided to go into the army? It doesn't matter where you are from, you can always decide to do something else.

Why are you so high on Mcilrath? Hes really not top 25... if the wings go after a defender they need someone who will be a 1-3 not a 4-6, and this guy stinks of bottom pairing defender.

No if you don't think there is a risk of Russian players going to the KHL then you are the retarded one. Hmm I wonder why all the pro scouting associations have him ranked not even in the first round? If he's got such a high skill set then you would think he would be top 3 or 4 but wait hes in the second round. Oh yeah hes a locker room cancer and has risk of going to the KHL because he is russian. But Detroit isn't some godly organization that can change players. Look at Ryno, Axelson,Larson and Hudler for that matter

And I'm high on Mcilrath because he is ranked almost 15 spots higher by central scouting then Kabanov. And is being projected as a number 2 or 3. How many games have you seen by either player? I guarantee the scouts have seen a hell of a lot more. How many interviews have you conducted with each player? I guarantee you the scouts have done more.

Trust me I think these scouts know more about the players then you do, but go ahead and keep thinking you have some insight into Kabanovs head and that he will be the next Datsyuk, but the scouts think otherwise. You know the ones who are paid to look at the players?

I dont think there is much risk in taking a European from every country except Russia and you are stupid to think there isn't a risk there. I'm also sick of seeing guys bolt back to Europe on this organization, Two of our best prospects and our next best goalie just did it as well as a roster player who can put up some points. Kabanov won't do us any good with his "high skill" if he's using it for Moscow Dynamo or some other team like that

I think they're waiting to see how Callahan turns out. He's only 18 and already has his first contract with the Wings. I'm excited to see how he can do-- he managed to improve his CHL numbers this year while still playing the role of pest/fighter. Ross sounds very similar to Callahan.

If they take a skill forward in the 1st I'd like to see a big shut-down d-man picked up in the 2nd or 3rd.

Yeah I wouldn't mind a trade down. Pick up a skill guy then have an early second pick and take Tinordi or Petrovic.

As for Callahan he's not going to be nothing more then a 4th liner, Ross has some skill and could be a good piece to a 3rd line.

[Shaman 713]

No if you don't think there is a risk of Russian players going to the KHL then you are the retarded one. Hmm I wonder why all the pro scouting associations have him ranked not even in the first round? If he's got such a high skill set then you would think he would be top 3 or 4 but wait hes in the second round. Oh yeah hes a locker room cancer and has risk of going to the KHL because he is russian. But Detroit isn't some godly organization that can change players. Look at Ryno, Axelson,Larson and Hudler for that matter

And I'm high on Mcilrath because he is ranked almost 15 spots higher by central scouting then Kabanov. And is being projected as a number 2 or 3. How many games have you seen by either player? I guarantee the scouts have seen a hell of a lot more. How many interviews have you conducted with each player? I guarantee you the scouts have done more.

Trust me I think these scouts know more about the players then you do, but go ahead and keep thinking you have some insight into Kabanovs head and that he will be the next Datsyuk, but the scouts think otherwise. You know the ones who are paid to look at the players?

I dont think there is much risk in taking a European from every country except Russia and you are stupid to think there isn't a risk there. I'm also sick of seeing guys bolt back to Europe on this organization, Two of our best prospects and our next best goalie just did it as well as a roster player who can put up some points. Kabanov won't do us any good with his "high skill" if he's using it for Moscow Dynamo or some other team like that

Yeah I wouldn't mind a trade down. Pick up a skill guy then have an early second pick and take Tinordi or Petrovic.

As for Callahan he's not going to be nothing more then a 4th liner, Ross has some skill and could be a good piece to a 3rd line.

I didn't say there was no risk, I acknowledged the risk but counter that with humans you always have risks. I wasnt talking about Kabanov, I was thinking of Valdimir Tarasenko, who has a top 5 skill set, but could easily fall because of the risk. He is ranked 10 spots for skill over your guy, but there is risk. But ive seen your guy both low and high on lists depending on how they are evaluated, for pure skill hes getting beaten to the outside, has no offensive upside, and can't skate well, that screams 4th to 6th defensemen to me, and the wings don't need that.

[newfy 695]

I didn't say there was no risk, I acknowledged the risk but counter that with humans you always have risks. I wasnt talking about Kabanov, I was thinking of Valdimir Tarasenko, who has a top 5 skill set, but could easily fall because of the risk. He is ranked 10 spots for skill over your guy, but there is risk. But ive seen your guy both low and high on lists depending on how they are evaluated, for pure skill hes getting beaten to the outside, has no offensive upside, and can't skate well, that screams 4th to 6th defensemen to me, and the wings don't need that.

You sure made it seem like there is no risk. Calling me retarded because I dont wanna see another high end prospect stay overseas for a career. You hardly have risks with NA prospects about playing in the NHL, you don't often see them skipping to the KHL for the money or anything like that.

Its fine if players wanna do that but I dont want people who have a higher chance thenothers in ths organization when we can still get very good players with no risk of them playing inRussia

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Lets Do It!

[Shaman 713]

You sure made it seem like there is no risk. Calling me retarded because I dont wanna see another high end prospect stay overseas for a career. You hardly have risks with NA prospects about playing in the NHL, you don't often see them skipping to the KHL for the money or anything like that.

Its fine if players wanna do that but I dont want people who have a higher chance thenothers in ths organization when we can still get very good players with no risk of them playing inRussia

I'm calling you retarded because you'd pass on a high level offensive prospect for a slow, fighter who can't score in the first round. The wings are hurting for scoring talent in their system, and taking this risk seems smart to me, as should the odds play out and he decided to come to the NHL for high level competition or the KHL continues to collapse (and it is) than the wing get a top 5 player with a 21st overall pick.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

As for Callahan he's not going to be nothing more then a 4th liner, Ross has some skill and could be a good piece to a 3rd line.

I wouldn't peg him as a 4th liner just yet, even if it looks like he will be at this point. He made great offensive strides in only a year-- who's to say he won't do the same this year? Holland obviously thinks he's got untapped potential because he signed this kid to his first contract 2 years early. I really think Callahan has the potential to be a 3rd liner who can be like Maltby in his prime.

[mjlegend 155]

Is it too late to pick John Kordic in the first round?

[dragonballgtz 273]

Anyone know of a stream? I was cheap on my TV package and don't have Vs

Edited June 25, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[Casey 145]

From the current mocks:

Teemu Pulkkinen, Jokerit, Finnish SM-Liga. 5'11", 176#, LW. 15 points in 6 games at 2009 U18 World's, 13 points in 8 games in 2008 U18 World's. No HF analysis, extensive surgical history.

Vladimir Tarasenko, HC Sibir, KHL. 6'0", 191#, C. 24 points in 42 games this season with HC Sibir, 5 points in 6 games at the WJC. Hockey's Future analysis- An all-around forward, Tarasenko is a gifted, capable offensive player with good commitment in the defensive zone. He’s not a physical or a defensive player, but he has an uncommon will to get back to protect the zone, to get down to block shots and this kind of “dirty job” that is very valuable in the more demanding North American game. But he’s mostly an offensive talent and he showcased his skills in the latest two KHL seasons. He has great numbers for an 18-year-old, scoring 13 goals and 24 points (the same exact amount scored by Ovechkin in his draft year, but playing 10 games fewer) during this season, constantly playing in the team’s top six.

Nick Bjugstad, University of Minnesota, CCHA. 6'5", 190#, C. Minnesota's Mr. Hockey for 2009, 60 points in 25 games as a HS Senior. Committed to the University of Minnesota. Hockey's Future analysis- Bjugstad possesses great potential as a high-level power forward. He has the size, skill, and speed to be an effective offensive player at the pro level.

Austin Watson, Peterboro Petes, OHL. 6'3", 187#, RW. 34 points in 42 games for the Windsor Spitfires, 20 points in 10 games for the Petes. Hockey's Future analysis- Watson is two-way talent who is not afraid to sacrifice his body to make a play. he is a heart-and-soul forward that any NHL team would love to have on the roster. Watson isn't just a plugger, though, as he has some offensive skill in his arsenal.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

Anyone know of a stream? I was cheap on my TV package and don't have Vs

I went to atdhe.net and clicked on live sports and just scroll down to find the link.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Nick Bjugstad, University of Minnesota, CCHA. 6'5", 190#, C. Minnesota's Mr. Hockey for 2009, 60 points in 25 games as a HS Senior. Committed to the University of Minnesota. Hockey's Future analysis- Bjugstad possesses great potential as a high-level power forward. He has the size, skill, and speed to be an effective offensive player at the pro level.

Works for me. That sounds like an all-around great pick for us. Size, center, power forward, speed? I'm in