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Bertuzzi Signs 2 Year Deal


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#121 VM1138

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:11 PM

Point is, we don't need another mediocre scorer.



We need all the scoring we can get. This was made obvious last year. Bertuzzi, even with the raise, is a steal compared to comparable players in the league. Now, consider he's had a confidence-building, healthy year where he made a positive impact on a team, in an environment that welcomed him and a fanbase that overall has accepted him. I think all that adds to the potential to have another good year next year as he gets more comfortable in his role and in the city and with the fans.

Not to mention he'll have a lot better talent to work with.
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#122 egroen

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:10 PM

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth. Bertuzzie is a steal at his cap-hit, just like Samuelsson was at his when be was here - despite constant bitching about him (including me) - but guys at the $1 - 3m range bring just as many faults as they do assets, or else they would be paid a hell of a lot more.

So is a big-bodied skilled player with inconsistent but clutch scoring and even a decent two-way game worth a penchant for giveaways and bad penalties?

Or would you prefer someone who was a bit faster, but is more likely to score half as many points?

At that price give me A player like Samuelsson or Bertuzzi every time... And at least Bertuzzi will drop the gloves.
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#123 Buppy

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:44 PM

They're all grinders who won't score anywhere near 20 goals. NFM summed it up fairly well. I quoted his post in response to your original.

And yet you're arguing that these younger players who you feel are better than Bert will be cheaper than he is. Bravo. This is just like people arguing that other teams would want to pick up our garbage in return for good dividends; they bash the players they don't like---i.e. Lebda, Meech, etc.---and want them traded, and then spend time going over the good qualities of those players that would supposedly make them attractive to other teams.



We need all the scoring we can get. This was made obvious last year. Bertuzzi, even with the raise, is a steal compared to comparable players in the league. Now, consider he's had a confidence-building, healthy year where he made a positive impact on a team, in an environment that welcomed him and a fanbase that overall has accepted him. I think all that adds to the potential to have another good year next year as he gets more comfortable in his role and in the city and with the fans.

Not to mention he'll have a lot better talent to work with.


With the return of Hudler and the odds favoring a much healthier lineup, the offense should already be much better than it was last season. Add to that the fact that as long as we are healthy, someone like Bert or Flip is going to be on the third line, and missing out on PP time, and thus not scoring up to their full potential; then the difference in offense between someone like Nystrom and Bert is negligible. 5-6 goals isn't going to mean anything.

Furthermore, you're both ignoring the main reason for not signing Bert right now; the cap savings. We had an opportunity to be ~$2 million under the cap while still icing a solid team capable of rolling four lines. The trade deadline is roughly 3/4ths of the way through the season, so that money would be worth $8 million in salary at that point. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to add someone like Semin (some rumors have him heading out of Washington) for a playoff run? Or maybe a big name defenseman? Or possibly a goalie if Howie falters and Ozzie can't pick up the slack? Or a couple extra players to shore up any weaknesses that develop?

Even if we really think we need another borderline top-6 'scorer', why not at least wait until free agency opens to explore what other options are out there? Especially considering that Bert himself said he wasn't interested in signing anywhere else. Could get a better deal? Who knows. Now we'll just have to watch what other teams can get. Bert was coming off 44 points in 66 games, and we got him for $1.5. Willy for the same after a 19g, 48 point season. After two poor years, Afinogenov signed for $800k. Prospal went for $1.1 after 19g/45 points. Even Comrie, after just one bad year, signed for $1.25. You act like it's unprecedented for someone to sign a 'bargain' deal. Signing Bert now, and for a two year deal, is essentially a statement that Holland doesn't think we can improve this group of forwards in the next two years. Unless we get a big jump in the cap, or blow up the roster, we don't even have the option of any meaningful changes, whether it turns out we need them or not.

I'm not saying this move is destroying the team or will for sure prevent us from winning anything. I love Kenny and still think he's the best in the game. But I think we had more options, and better options. I think this time he made a mistake.

#124 eva unit zero

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:46 AM

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth.


Quit going back and copying what I was saying weeks and months ago. It's not nice. :P
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#125 xtrememachine1

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 05:25 AM

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth.



Bert was not worth twice that. That means he would make more than Homer, as much as Filppula and almost as much as Franzen. People on this board keep talking about him getting 50-60 points next year, he hasn't had over 44 points in 4 years and its not like he's getting younger (or better).

#126 26basslines

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 05:43 AM

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth. Bertuzzie is a steal at his cap-hit, just like Samuelsson was at his when be was here - despite constant bitching about him (including me) - but guys at the $1 - 3m range bring just as many faults as they do assets, or else they would be paid a hell of a lot more.
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Bertuzzi signed a 2 year, 8 million dollar deal with Anaheim in 2007.

In the summer of 2008 they bought him out, and he received $2.66 million.

He received that money for the 2008-2009 season when he played for Calgary. He had already gotten his buyout money from Anaheim a year prior to signing with the Wings.

#127 newfy

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 06:15 AM

Bert was not worth twice that. That means he would make more than Homer, as much as Filppula and almost as much as Franzen. People on this board keep talking about him getting 50-60 points next year, he hasn't had over 44 points in 4 years and its not like he's getting younger (or better).

Holmstrom as a 25 goal scorer was the biggest contract steal signing I've seen in a long time. Bert isn't worth more to this team then Homer but around the league Bert is at a steal price.

Franzen is signed til hes 75 so his cap hit isn't relevant.

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#128 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 08:57 AM

Bertuzzi signed a 2 year, 8 million dollar deal with Anaheim in 2007.

In the summer of 2008 they bought him out, and he received $2.66 million.

He received that money for the 2008-2009 season when he played for Calgary. He had already gotten his buyout money from Anaheim a year prior to signing with the Wings.

Buyout money (and the remaining cap hit that is tied to it) is paid out over twice the time remaining on the contract. So if he had one year left on his deal and was owed $2.66M in '08, he would be paid $1.33M for the next two years.
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#129 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:02 AM

Point is, we don't need another mediocre scorer. We have enough guys to fill the top 6 for now. Aside from my 'maybes' (and probably Malhotra), the guys I listed should cost around half of what we spent on Bert, allowing to save an extra million for the trade deadline, where it would be worth ~$4 million and possibly allow us to add an elite player for the playoffs.

Even with Comrie, Higgins, and Tanguay, since they're coming off poor years, they might be had for $500k+ less and still offer good offensive potential.

As it is, we have the potential to save a little for later moves OR improve the 4th line/defense. Had we passed on Bert, we could have improved our 4th line, and then at the deadline added someone of impact for the top 6 or a high-end defenseman or smaller improvements to both.

Why don't you tell us why we needed a third-rate has-been who will either play on the third line or push someone better down when we certainly could have added at least that much and most likely better at the trade deadline?

The point you continue to miss is that Bert is not a mediocre scorer for his price tag. Yes, his scoring isn't what it once was, but his production is worth well more than his tag. The players you mentioned aren't in the same boat.

Bert is not a first-rate player, but he's not a third-rate player either. As far as adding a better player at the deadline, adding a player in what would've been that pro-rated price range could just as likely cost too much in regards to prospects/picks. While GR isn't bone-dry, its most certainly not abundant with the type of talent teams are calling Kenny and inquiring about. The Wings draft players for *their* system, which happens to be quite different than most teams.

The bottom line is re-signing Bert was the safe bet, because we could end up with nothing if prices are too high on trade deadline day.

never said it was. that is hollands job. and IMO he blew it with this signing. if he couldn't get bert to sign for less he should have let him walk.

though bert set himself up for any ribbing he personally gets because of all of his statements about wanting to stay here and also being willing to play for less.

Then complain about Holland, not Bert.

Did you ever stop to think that Bert being willing to "play for less" was that instead of taking a $2.5 million cap-hit like most players of his ability and size he took $1.9375 million instead?
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#130 dobbles

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:33 AM

Then complain about Holland, not Bert.

Did you ever stop to think that Bert being willing to "play for less" was that instead of taking a $2.5 million cap-hit like most players of his ability and size he took $1.9375 million instead?


thats who i have been complaining about! i know you wouldn't dare ever question anything the red wings do, but to me this is a boneheaded move, just like getting williams last summer.

also, a question i have for you and all the others that keep bringing up his size: why does his size matter at all? when was the last time he used it? its funny, all the bertuzzi supporters always say, "people that don't like him still expect him to be a physical power forward but he isn't that player anymore" or something very similar. yet now we are supposed to believe that his size is an attribute that makes him a better player? he doesn't play physical so his size is totally irrelevant!

additionally, how are folks talking about his 'clutch' goal scoring?????? he scored 3 goals in the last 31 games of the season! he had 1 hot stretch in december and thats it. aside from the 8 goals in 8 games, he only scored 10 goals in the other 74 games! everyone talks about he was 3rd on the team in goals or had 44 points, he freaking should have, he played more minutes than just about everyone! heck, he was only 100 minutes behind Z. he only scored 2 more even strength goals than patrick eaves for craps sake! yet i doubt he will get anywhere near as good a deal. when you factor in hudler coming back, all of a sudden, bertuzzi doesn't get as many PP minutes either. and for those that love to talk about 11 playoff points, he can thank franzen for getting him a 5 point game. i think boogaard probably could have been out there on that line and ended up with 4 or 5 points.

also, what many of us are saying is that while bert does have more offensive upside than many of the other guys mentioned as alternatives, that his all around game is not suited well for what the team needs.

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#131 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:49 AM

thats who i have been complaining about! i know you wouldn't dare ever question anything the red wings do, but to me this is a boneheaded move, just like getting williams last summer.

Please! I state my opinion for *and* against all the time on these boards. Don't insinuate something you have no clue about.

Besides, I completely agree that Williams was a boneheaded signing. I hated that one from the moment it was announced.

also, a question i have for you and all the others that keep bringing up his size: why does his size matter at all? when was the last time he used it? its funny, all the bertuzzi supporters always say, "people that don't like him still expect him to be a physical power forward but he isn't that player anymore" or something very similar. yet now we are supposed to believe that his size is an attribute that makes him a better player? he doesn't play physical so his size is totally irrelevant!

His size is more than relevant because Bert constantly played in front of the net last season. While he's not as physical along the boards, he's extremely difficult to move in front of the goal. That's why his size is an attribute.

additionally, how are folks talking about his 'clutch' goal scoring?????? he scored 3 goals in the last 31 games of the season! he had 1 hot stretch in december and thats it. aside from the 8 goals in 8 games, he only scored 10 goals in the other 74 games! everyone talks about he was 3rd on the team in goals or had 44 points, he freaking should have, he played more minutes than just about everyone! heck, he was only 100 minutes behind Z. he only scored 2 more even strength goals than patrick eaves for craps sake! yet i doubt he will get anywhere near as good a deal. when you factor in hudler coming back, all of a sudden, bertuzzi doesn't get as many PP minutes either. and for those that love to talk about 11 playoff points, he can thank franzen for getting him a 5 point game. i think boogaard probably could have been out there on that line and ended up with 4 or 5 points.

also, what many of us are saying is that while bert does have more offensive upside than many of the other guys mentioned as alternatives, that his all around game is not suited well for what the team needs.

I love how people on this site use others players as reasons for why a player is "good" or not yet don't recognize when the favor is returned to practically every other player. The fact of the matter is that points were scored, Bert has now been in the system for a full year, and has shown he's healthy. As much as you and others like to claim that he won't get as much PT now that the team is healthy and has a better roster, he'll also be playing alongside better line-mates which should only increase his production, *especially* if he's on the third line playing against others teams' thirds.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#132 ltgator333

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:58 AM

I've declined comment on this thread so far because really I feel totally meh about this deal. Bert's play over the next two years will make or break this deal, hopefully he stays healthy and performs at least as well as he did last year.
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#133 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:59 AM

I've declined comment on this thread so far because really I feel totally meh about this deal. Bert's play over the next two years will make or break this deal, hopefully he stays healthy and performs at least as well as he did last year.

I'm fairly confident you could say this about every deal signed in the history of sports. :P
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#134 jeff48109

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:02 AM

Top 10 UFA RWs

looking at this list, will anyone take any of these clowns over Bert?

#135 Frozen-Man

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:19 AM

Point is, we don't need another mediocre scorer.


I don't understand how a guy who was 4th on the team in goals and 5th overall in points is considered a mediocre scorer. The guy had more goals than anyone not named Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or Holmstrom. Bert may not best the elite power forward he once was but at more than .5 ppg he is not mediocre either.

Bertuzzi signed a 2 year, 8 million dollar deal with Anaheim in 2007.

In the summer of 2008 they bought him out, and he received $2.66 million.

He received that money for the 2008-2009 season when he played for Calgary. He had already gotten his buyout money from Anaheim a year prior to signing with the Wings.


Buyouts are paid over double the length of the contract being bought out so he was still being paid last year.

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#136 dragonballgtz

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:27 AM

With the return of Hudler and the odds favoring a much healthier lineup, the offense should already be much better than it was last season. Add to that the fact that as long as we are healthy, someone like Bert or Flip is going to be on the third line, and missing out on PP time, and thus not scoring up to their full potential; then the difference in offense between someone like Nystrom and Bert is negligible. 5-6 goals isn't going to mean anything.

Furthermore, you're both ignoring the main reason for not signing Bert right now; the cap savings. We had an opportunity to be ~$2 million under the cap while still icing a solid team capable of rolling four lines. The trade deadline is roughly 3/4ths of the way through the season, so that money would be worth $8 million in salary at that point. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to add someone like Semin (some rumors have him heading out of Washington) for a playoff run? Or maybe a big name defenseman? Or possibly a goalie if Howie falters and Ozzie can't pick up the slack? Or a couple extra players to shore up any weaknesses that develop?

Even if we really think we need another borderline top-6 'scorer', why not at least wait until free agency opens to explore what other options are out there? Especially considering that Bert himself said he wasn't interested in signing anywhere else. Could get a better deal? Who knows. Now we'll just have to watch what other teams can get. Bert was coming off 44 points in 66 games, and we got him for $1.5. Willy for the same after a 19g, 48 point season. After two poor years, Afinogenov signed for $800k. Prospal went for $1.1 after 19g/45 points. Even Comrie, after just one bad year, signed for $1.25. You act like it's unprecedented for someone to sign a 'bargain' deal. Signing Bert now, and for a two year deal, is essentially a statement that Holland doesn't think we can improve this group of forwards in the next two years. Unless we get a big jump in the cap, or blow up the roster, we don't even have the option of any meaningful changes, whether it turns out we need them or not.

I'm not saying this move is destroying the team or will for sure prevent us from winning anything. I love Kenny and still think he's the best in the game. But I think we had more options, and better options. I think this time he made a mistake.

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#137 dobbles

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:45 PM

I love how people on this site use others players as reasons for why a player is "good" or not yet don't recognize when the favor is returned to practically every other player. The fact of the matter is that points were scored, Bert has now been in the system for a full year, and has shown he's healthy. As much as you and others like to claim that he won't get as much PT now that the team is healthy and has a better roster, he'll also be playing alongside better line-mates which should only increase his production, *especially* if he's on the third line playing against others teams' thirds.


couple of things here: i actually agree in principle with what you are saying. when guys move around lines they get better/worse linemates, but often better/worse opponents that negate each other. however, the only thing i was referencing as far as bert riding others coattails was the fact that he got 5 points in 1 game almost entirely due to franzen. i am sure you watched that game as well; to me it was pretty darned apparent who was the magic on that line that night. and is wasnt bert. i am not trying to say that all of berts 44 points was due to playing with D & Z or anything like that. simply that his playoff total (which has been brought up several times) is inflated a lot due to franzen having that great night. however, i did mention other things like having the same even strength goals as eaves, or how he played so many minutes, and no one seems to have any answer for that. and the part about less PP minutes i think will be a factor. so many people try and say the only reason hudler gets points is because of PP time, so apparently in that case its a huge ordeal, yet with bert, its not a problem. to me though, i see him as the 7th best PP forward on the team, and not only will that limit his production for his nearly 2 mil cap hit, it also negates a lot of the need to keep him as a scorer when perhaps they could have brought in another guy like nystrom that would better fit a bottom 6, non PP role.



sorry for the comment about disagreeing with the wings. i dont follow your posts much but it just seemed lately that everytime someone questions a move, you get all huffy and supportive. as you can tell by my post count, i don't make it into all the threads.

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#138 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:10 PM

couple of things here: i actually agree in principle with what you are saying. when guys move around lines they get better/worse linemates, but often better/worse opponents that negate each other. however, the only thing i was referencing as far as bert riding others coattails was the fact that he got 5 points in 1 game almost entirely due to franzen. i am sure you watched that game as well; to me it was pretty darned apparent who was the magic on that line that night. and is wasnt bert. i am not trying to say that all of berts 44 points was due to playing with D & Z or anything like that. simply that his playoff total (which has been brought up several times) is inflated a lot due to franzen having that great night. however, i did mention other things like having the same even strength goals as eaves, or how he played so many minutes, and no one seems to have any answer for that. and the part about less PP minutes i think will be a factor. so many people try and say the only reason hudler gets points is because of PP time, so apparently in that case its a huge ordeal, yet with bert, its not a problem. to me though, i see him as the 7th best PP forward on the team, and not only will that limit his production for his nearly 2 mil cap hit, it also negates a lot of the need to keep him as a scorer when perhaps they could have brought in another guy like nystrom that would better fit a bottom 6, non PP role.

While one could make the argument that Bert's playoff numbers were inflated by Franzen's beastly game, the same could be said going the other way, for most players, on every team. Why is it that we can rip certain players for "how" they got their points, but not others. The bottom line is the puck ended up in the back of the net, and plenty of players from top to bottom have been beneficiaries of what some would consider padded numbers. Hell, look at how many EN goals Z gets.

I don't know why you keep saying no one has an answer for you regarding the questions you posed because I responded to quite a few of them, as have others. Bert's played the minutes he has because of the overwhelming injury bug that hit Detroit this season. Couple that with the fact that those guys were playing with half the Grand Rapids roster and its reason enough as to why everyone's numbers were down this season. Next year the Wings will have Bert in his second full season and much more familiar with their system. He's proven he can stay healthy and his confidence should be higher than it has been in years. He'll be playing a more balanced role on the team and is going to be able to put the puck in the net both on the second or third line given the roster stays healthy. For his *ability* and all the aforementioned there's no reason Bert can't duplicate and improve on last season and that would make his $1.9375 million cap hit beyond worth it in comparison to other players around the league making the same.

Again, Nystrom can still be had for the bottom 6 if Kenny truly believes he'll benefit this club. I tend to agree that the Wings would benefit from the Drake-type player Kenny promised us but I'm not about to throw Bert under the bus, as if seemingly blaming him for now not having the room to add one of those types.

sorry for the comment about disagreeing with the wings. i dont follow your posts much but it just seemed lately that everytime someone questions a move, you get all huffy and supportive. as you can tell by my post count, i don't make it into all the threads.

It's not about being supportive, rather its about being realistic. I'm most certainly not playing the role of "Rawh-Rawh Red Wings" but I do see the merit in bringing in a player of Bert's talent for the price they got him for. There's plenty of members here on LGW that simply don't have a grasp of reality, what a player actually costs, or the difference between making deals in the real NHL and those on NHL2010.

Sidenote: I've enjoyed our debate/discussion. :thumbup:
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#139 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:14 PM

Top 10 UFA RWs

looking at this list, will anyone take any of these clowns over Bert?


While I doubt he will come cheap, I wanted the Wing's to make a move for either Mueller or Stempniak at the deadline. If Lee could be had cheap, I'd be estatic. Hopefully his horrible PO's put his price down a little. If the cap goes up more than expected, I think we could get him.
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#140 newfy

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:31 PM

To the people saying he should've taken a pay cut need to check out Mayers salary. He's making 1.4, Bert made 1.5 last year, theres no way Bert should be making less then Mayers.

RIP BOB PROBERT #24






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