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Is Filppula going to be our 3rd line center...or 1st line winger?

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It looks like it's going to be either...

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Miller/*FA-Abdelkader-Eaves

Draper

OR

Hudler-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Abdelkader-Filppula-Cleary

Miller/*FA-Helm-Eaves

...the thing that drives me nuts about both lines (and hence, resigning bertuzzi) is that a very, very talented offensive player - hudler or filppula - will be wasted on a line that has two players with no hands - cleary and helm/abby.

i guess i like the second combination more, but really, i don't like either choice. it's going to take a cap-miracle signing to improve the situation.

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We have had this discussion before, but first, it is a good problem to have. That means you have multiple lines that can contribute. It puts more pressure on their line mates, because more is expected of them, which is good. First and second line guys will get top defensive pairings, so I have always like scorers on the third or fourth line, because it creates mismatches. We have seen this with Samuelsson and Hudler, producing in a lower number of minutes on the lower lines. The players just have to get over the individual issues and realize it is all about the end result which is the win.

Drake_Marcus likes this

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Simple. Here's what the Wings should start the season with, and shift around to figure out chemistry if necessary:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves

Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Abdelkader/Helm/Miller

Draper

Lidstrom/Ericsson

Kronwall/Rafalski

Kindl/Stuart

Meech

Howard

Osgood

EDIT: Wow, everyone really seems to hate my lines at the rate I'm getting minuses. Do people on this board actually care about meaningless posts in repetitive threads?

Edited by eva unit zero
redwings1914 and Frozen-Man like this

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2nd line center.

After what we've seen from his this past season, you'd have to be insane to put him in the bottom 6.

Edited by Z and D for the C
13dangledangle likes this

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Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves

Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Abdelkader/Helm/Miller

Draper

Those have got to be the two least skilled wingers Pavel has ever centered. He has always had a great finisher on his line like Hull/Shanny/Hank/Hossa/Franzen.

Edited by Heroes of Hockeytown

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2nd line center.

After what we've seen from his this past season, you'd have to be insane to put him in the bottom 6.

But given the rest of our personnel, it makes the most sense. We have 8 players would could fit in the top 6.

Cleary-Flip-Eaves can play a role defensively and still be a decent threat on offense. They're even decently physical. All three have nice speed too. Pav and Hank center the top two lines, Homer and Bert play net presence, Happy and Mule play the snipers. I don't really like it, but with Bert it's the best we can do.

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Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves

Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Abdelkader/Helm/Miller

Draper

Really? Eaves on the second line over Cleary *and* Bertuzzi? Partnered with Homer? Did I miss something?

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Simple. Here's what the Wings should start the season with, and shift around to figure out chemistry if necessary:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves

Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Abdelkader/Helm/Miller

Draper

Lidstrom/Ericsson

Kronwall/Rafalski

Kindl/Stuart

Meech

Howard

Osgood

People need to drop the Zetterberg as the 1st line centre and Datsyuk as the 2nd line centre bulls***. Zetterberg has never put up more points than Datsyuk in the regular season and likely never will. Datsyuk is a superior defensive player and is (generally) better on face-offs.

Do you ever wonder why the Red Wings always play Datsyuk as the 1st line centre in these scenarios? You shouldn't.

Zetterberg's forte is the play-offs. Let him save his steam for when it counts. Datsyuk is too dominant to put on your 2nd line in any scenario.

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2nd line center.

After what we've seen from his this past season, you'd have to be insane to put him in the bottom 6.

I disagree. Filppula is an average 2nd line player but a brilliant 3rd line player. We're still waiting for his break-out season instead of a break-out month. He'll have to break 41pts before you can loudly proclaim him a top six player. I'm sure he can break that barrier but the fact remains that his best season in the NHL was 40pts in 08-09.

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People need to drop the Zetterberg as the 1st line centre and Datsyuk as the 2nd line centre bulls***. Zetterberg has never put up more points than Datsyuk in the regular season and likely never will. Datsyuk is a superior defensive player and is (generally) better on face-offs.

Do you ever wonder why the Red Wings always play Datsyuk as the 1st line centre in these scenarios? You shouldn't.

Zetterberg's forte is the play-offs. Let him save his steam for when it counts. Datsyuk is too dominant to put on your 2nd line in any scenario.

couldnt have said it bettter myself. hopefully datsyuk isnt paired with eaves and homer... maybe franzen and homer like last season?

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It looks like it's going to be either...

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Miller/*FA-Abdelkader-Eaves

Draper

OR

Hudler-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Abdelkader-Filppula-Cleary

Miller/*FA-Helm-Eaves

...the thing that drives me nuts about both lines (and hence, resigning bertuzzi) is that a very, very talented offensive player - hudler or filppula - will be wasted on a line that has two players with no hands - cleary and helm/abby.

i guess i like the second combination more, but really, i don't like either choice. it's going to take a cap-miracle signing to improve the situation.

Sorry I know this is a little off topic, so I'll at least start by saying I think Flip will eventually be what everyone hopes for. My point though is that I am getting ******* sick of this team, I'm sorry and I may be the only one. I wan tto keep the superstars but I really wish Holland would cut some of these ******* ties and actually opted for some more new blood besides a potential goon...

Z and D for the C likes this

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I disagree. Filppula is an average 2nd line player but a brilliant 3rd line player. We're still waiting for his break-out season instead of a break-out month. He'll have to break 41pts before you can loudly proclaim him a top six player. I'm sure he can break that barrier but the fact remains that his best season in the NHL was 40pts in 08-09.

He's not a 'brilliant' 3rd-liner either. He's a far better player with better linemates. This past season, and '08 where he spent a bunch of time with Datsyuk, and then a red-hot Franzen in the playoffs proves that.

That's the worst part of the Bert signing. It will most likely push Flip down, and take whatever PP time he was going to get. Flip isn't going to break out of anything from the third line. He couldn't with Hudler and Sammy, he won't with whomever he gets this year. We'll likely end up spending $7.5 million on a third line that scores 35 goals. I kind of hope we trade him now. He deserves a better opportunity.

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Really? Eaves on the second line over Cleary *and* Bertuzzi? Partnered with Homer? Did I miss something?

Eaves was on pace for almost 30 goals his rookie year in Ottawa. He has shown offensive skill and is a solid defensive player who plays a feisty physical game.

Cleary hasn't been any better a goal scorer than Eaves was that season, and Cleary has had better opportunities. Both have spent most of their careers as defensive specialists who were first round picks and expected to produce much more offense than they have over their careers, as both have had injuries and limited opportunity to play in offensive roles. There is no reason Eaves is less deserving than Cleary of a spot on the "second" line with Datsyuk.

And Drake, just so you know:

I don't know about other people, but I arrange the lines based on the quality of the LINE. While I do rate Zetterberg ahead of Datsyuk as a player, it's not for that reason that the Z line is listed first. If you swapped Franzen and Eaves, then Dats' line would be listed first. If Filppula were playing with Franzen and Hudler, Z had Miller and Abdelkader, and Dats had Helm and Eaves, then maybe Filppula's line is listed first. Of course, that leaves a fourth line of Holmstrom/Cleary/Bertuzzi...

couldnt have said it bettter myself. hopefully datsyuk isnt paired with eaves and homer... maybe franzen and homer like last season?

Because Eaves isn't "good enough" to play on the wing with Datsyuk?

If Datsyuk needs to have really good linemates in your opinion, is he really that good then?

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Mule-Pav-Homer

Hudler-Z-Flip(1)

Bert-Helm-Cleary

Eaves-Abby-Miller

Draper and/or Ritola and/or Flip(2)

No way Hudler and Flip(1) are on the bottom 6. Those lines give the wings the best 3rd line in the league. Plus Cleary and Bert can replace Homer on the top line if babs wants a little more speed.

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Because Eaves isn't "good enough" to play on the wing with Datsyuk?

If Datsyuk needs to have really good linemates in your opinion, is he really that good then?

He doesn't need anything, but if you're trying to get the best possible lineup than you should put your best finishers with your best playmakers. You can't squeeze blood from a stone; Draper played on Datsyuk's wing extensively in 2006, is Pavel no good because he couldn't turn him into a goal scorer?

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2nd line center.

After what we've seen from his this past season, you'd have to be insane to put him in the bottom 6.

Agreed, something F'd up would have to happen for Flip to be in the bottom 6. I say they put...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmer

Franzen-Flippula-Bertuzzi

Ritola-Abby-Hudler

Miller-Helm-Eaves

Draper

.....I realize Mattius wont be there but I dig his game and think those three could be sweet.

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It looks like it's going to be either...

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Miller/*FA-Abdelkader-Eaves

Draper

OR

Hudler-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Abdelkader-Filppula-Cleary

Miller/*FA-Helm-Eaves

...the thing that drives me nuts about both lines (and hence, resigning bertuzzi) is that a very, very talented offensive player - hudler or filppula - will be wasted on a line that has two players with no hands - cleary and helm/abby.

i guess i like the second combination more, but really, i don't like either choice. it's going to take a cap-miracle signing to improve the situation.

If Babcock's quotes about next year are to ring true, Flip will not be on the third line. Bertuzzi will more than likely be a 3rd line winger playing on the second PP. Hence the lines will probably look more like this:

Hudler - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Filppula - Zetterberg - Franzen

Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi

Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves

---Draper/Ritola/I. Filppula

You might even see these pairings, Babs mentioned this as well at some point

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Hudler - Filppula - Franzen

Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi

Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves

----Draper/Ritola/I. Filppula

I think either way would be fine, if the second pairing of Huds, Flip, and Franzen get it done, and surely they're capable of doing so, why not put the super first line back up there and let the Euro-twins work their magic like a few years back. I think that would be the best. Cleary and Bertuzzi could play up too in case someone isn't pulling their weight at even strength - talking about Holmer....

I almost wish they'd trade Draper, but it would be nice to have that veteran savvy on the back side of the offense. I am really pulling for I. Filppula, but I just think it would be cool to have brothers on the team. He looks like he could pan out, but I know i'm probably just dreaming. Who knows, maybe Eaves walks for more money, you never know.

Ritola may be traded since we already have Draper as a reserve and he's not longer able to be freely waived down to GR.

Zohan Franzen likes this

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He doesn't need anything, but if you're trying to get the best possible lineup than you should put your best finishers with your best playmakers. You can't squeeze blood from a stone; Draper played on Datsyuk's wing extensively in 2006, is Pavel no good because he couldn't turn him into a goal scorer?

Funny thing is, Drapes did better than Bert did.

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If Babcock's quotes about next year are to ring true, Flip will not be on the third line. Bertuzzi will more than likely be a 3rd line winger playing on the second PP.

Im sure your right, but honestly people why would we brake up the Flip, Bert, Mule experiment when it looked sooo good. Not to mention it puts Z & D back togetheryowza.gif(which we really, really need again)

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Eaves was on pace for almost 30 goals his rookie year in Ottawa. He has shown offensive skill and is a solid defensive player who plays a feisty physical game.

Cleary hasn't been any better a goal scorer than Eaves was that season, and Cleary has had better opportunities. Both have spent most of their careers as defensive specialists who were first round picks and expected to produce much more offense than they have over their careers, as both have had injuries and limited opportunity to play in offensive roles. There is no reason Eaves is less deserving than Cleary of a spot on the "second" line with Datsyuk.

And Drake, just so you know:

I don't know about other people, but I arrange the lines based on the quality of the LINE. While I do rate Zetterberg ahead of Datsyuk as a player, it's not for that reason that the Z line is listed first. If you swapped Franzen and Eaves, then Dats' line would be listed first. If Filppula were playing with Franzen and Hudler, Z had Miller and Abdelkader, and Dats had Helm and Eaves, then maybe Filppula's line is listed first. Of course, that leaves a fourth line of Holmstrom/Cleary/Bertuzzi...

Because Eaves isn't "good enough" to play on the wing with Datsyuk?

If Datsyuk needs to have really good linemates in your opinion, is he really that good then?

Putting Datsyuk with Eaves and Holmstrom on the 2nd line is absolutely bizarre. I just can't fathom why you'd think that's not a waste of Datsyuk's talent. He should be feeding a sniper at all times. Giving him inferior linemates so he can pull them up as best he can is a foolish way of using a superstar in his prime.

Why would you take one of the best playmakers in the entire league and waste his talent by asking him to dish the puck to anyone but your best snipers?

The injuries this season showed what happens when a superior playmaker asks inferior shooters to finish on his plays. Datsyuk's perfect saucer passes were pissed away by 3rd and 2nd line shooters. Am I the only one who died a little inside whenever Datsyuk made a brilliant play so Bert could fire the puck wide of hold onto it for a second too long?

Also, in what world do you think the quality of Datsyuk's wingers has anything to do with his "needs" and not with optimizing the talent you have on hand?

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Putting Datsyuk with Eaves and Holmstrom on the 2nd line is absolutely bizarre. I just can't fathom why you'd think that's not a waste of Datsyuk's talent. He should be feeding a sniper at all times. Giving him inferior linemates so he can pull them up as best he can is a foolish way of using a superstar in his prime.

Why would you take one of the best playmakers in the entire league and waste his talent by asking him to dish the puck to anyone but your best snipers?

The injuries this season showed what happens when a superior playmaker asks inferior shooters to finish on his plays. Datsyuk's perfect saucer passes were pissed away by 3rd and 2nd line shooters. Am I the only one who died a little inside whenever Datsyuk made a brilliant play so Bert could fire the puck wide of hold onto it for a second too long?

Also, in what world do you think the quality of Datsyuk's wingers has anything to do with his "needs" and not with optimizing the talent you have on hand?

I was responding to the comment about "hopefully Datsyuk isn't put with Eaves and Holmstrom" in that it was posted with the attitude that the wingers would affect Datsyuk's performance.

Eaves has a good shot. Zetterberg has shown excellent chemistry with Franzen, and has worked well with Hudler. Zetterberg himself is as much a shooter as he is a playmaker. Hudler is the second best playmaker on the team. Why waste Hudler's talent by putting him with Datsyuk? Why waste Z's chemistry with Franzen? Hudler/Z/Franzen is a line that has worked before and seems a natural combo to me; highly skilled playmaker with good shot, star center with great shot and playmaking skills, plus proven chemistry with both wingers, and excellent scoring winger with great shot and net-front presence.

Datsyuk/Holmstrom is a combo that has been highly effective, so the only question is what winger do you put with them? Do you slot Filppula in and leave the third line center spot to Abdelkader or Helm, neither of whom is really a playmaker, playing with Bertuzzi who is only good below the hash marks and Cleary who is excellent defensively but in the offensive zone his play is primarily based on grinding and crashing the net? Bertuzzi opposite Holmstrom was a decent combo, but really doesn't fit well with the Wings' system. Cleary is a better fit, but ultimately Eaves plays the best puck possession/shooter role to play alongside Datsyuk. Eaves scored 12 goals last season playing on the third and fourth lines in a defensive role. You can give the spot to Drew Miller if you want, he's got skill too, but IMHO Eaves is a better fit.

This leaves a Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi third line, a capable two-way line which will provide decent support scoring and solid defense.

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bertuzzi really hampers the lines.

like homer, he's worthless on a line without hank or pav. he's a bad defensive player. he can't create for himself. he won't hit. if you put him on a line with helm and cleary, it will blow.

end of story.

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