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Is Filppula going to be our 3rd line center...or 1st line winger?


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#41 blueadams

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 03:00 PM

cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.

and enough of this 'big body bert' bullcrap. he might measure 6-3, 250 in the doctor's office. but he's about 5-8, 165 on the ice.

Edited by blueadams, 17 June 2010 - 03:01 PM.


#42 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 04:30 PM

People need to drop the Zetterberg as the 1st line centre and Datsyuk as the 2nd line centre bulls***. Zetterberg has never put up more points than Datsyuk in the regular season and likely never will. Datsyuk is a superior defensive player and is (generally) better on face-offs.

Do you ever wonder why the Red Wings always play Datsyuk as the 1st line centre in these scenarios? You shouldn't.

Zetterberg's forte is the play-offs. Let him save his steam for when it counts. Datsyuk is too dominant to put on your 2nd line in any scenario.


Not to be nitpicky, but in 07-08 and 09-10 Zetterberg would have easily outscored Dats if he had played the entire season.

Wasn't I reading that Filppula was only good for 40-50 points from you a summer ago?

Edit:



Now it seems that thinking he won't easily break 50 points is insane.

If Filppula played all 82 games, he would have been prorated for 52 points. I know he had a hot steak, and with injuries he would have more, but that is just the simple fact. 52 points is not what most people have in mind when they hear "easily" breaking a number.

Wasn't I reading that Filppula was only good for 40-50 points from you a summer ago?

Edit:



Now it seems that thinking he won't easily break 50 points is insane.

If Filppula played all 82 games, he would have been prorated for 52 points. I know he had a hot steak, and with injuries he would have more, but that is just the simple fact. 52 points is not what most people have in mind when they hear "easily" breaking a number.
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#43 newfy

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:27 PM

Not to be nitpicky, but in 07-08 and 09-10 Zetterberg would have easily outscored Dats if he had played the entire season.


If Filppula played all 82 games, he would have been prorated for 52 points. I know he had a hot steak, and with injuries he would have more, but that is just the simple fact. 52 points is not what most people have in mind when they hear "easily" breaking a number.


If Filppula played all 82 games, he would have been prorated for 52 points. I know he had a hot steak, and with injuries he would have more, but that is just the simple fact. 52 points is not what most people have in mind when they hear "easily" breaking a number.

Prorated doesn't count for anything in stats. Its either he did or didn't put them up not, well I tihnk he could've since if you prorate it he has 52.

Flip is a good player no doubt but he is yet to prove he is a consistent offensive contributor on this team.

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#44 Crymson

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:39 PM

cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.


Oh, right. Let's go over this:


Shooting:
Cleary: 20-30 goal scorer when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: 20 goal scorer. Check.
Abdelkader: Developing, but he has shown flashes.

Passing:
Cleary: 20-30 assists per season when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: Did very well last year in this department. Check.
Abdelkader: It isn't really his forte.

Hitting:
Cleary: Uhm, yeah.
Bertuzzi: Less than usual, but he showed flashes during the playoffs.
Abdelkader: Was one of our leading hitters in the games he played.

No offense, bud... but you're a moron.

#45 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:39 PM

Prorated doesn't count for anything in stats. Its either he did or didn't put them up not, well I tihnk he could've since if you prorate it he has 52.

Flip is a good player no doubt but he is yet to prove he is a consistent offensive contributor on this team.


You realize that's almost exactly what I said right?
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#46 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:25 PM

Oh, right. Let's go over this: [snip]

I'm not convinced it'll the "worst offensive line ever," but let's apply a little scrutiny to those figures. Cleary and Bert put up those numbers playing on the top two lines, mostly with the team's two best players, Zetteberg and Datsyuk, and occasionally with Filppula.

Cleary fills a very specific net crashing role (and Bert too when he feels like it) and requires a skilled playmaker to get the puck to the net. Abdelkader might develop into a decent scorer sooner or later but he will never be that player.

When the Wings had a third line that saw each player put up 40-50 points, it was Sammy-Flip-Hudler. This proposed line isn't anywhere close to that.
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#47 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:34 PM

cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.

and enough of this 'big body bert' bullcrap. he might measure 6-3, 250 in the doctor's office. but he's about 5-8, 165 on the ice.


It's funny that you say that because Bertuzzi has a pretty good shot. Poor shot selection at times, but a good shot. No one can realistically say Bertuzzi doesn't have above average hands.

Cleary's got ok hands too but they aren't quite as soft as Bert's. Like Bert, Cleary is definitely capable of creating scoring opportunities.

Abdelkader had a poor showing last season but his offensive skill set didn't magically disappear between the AHL and NHL-- he just needs more confidence and to crash the net more.

Abs, Cleary and Bertuzzi are all very similar players, however, so putting them together on the same line doesn't seem like a brilliant plan.
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#48 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:40 PM

Abdelkader: Was one of our leading hitters in the games he played.

No offense, bud... but you're a moron.


Abs was the team leader in hits per game by a mile. He ended up with 152 hits in 50 games.
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#49 Broken 16

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:47 PM

Simple. Here's what the Wings should start the season with, and shift around to figure out chemistry if necessary:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen
Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves
Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi
Abdelkader/Helm/Miller
Draper

Lidstrom/Ericsson
Kronwall/Rafalski
Kindl/Stuart
Meech

Howard
Osgood




I don't critique line combinations very often but those are the worst lines I have ever seen. And that's ignoring your attempt to shoehorn Hudler onto the first line.


The only thing I agree with is Bert on the third line. But not over Eaves. I get that you might be banking on lightning in a bottle from Eaves... but giving him more minutes than Bert AND Flip is just dumb. He's showed potential, but not that much potential. C'mon.

Edited by Broken 16, 17 June 2010 - 07:10 PM.


#50 Jesusberg

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:48 PM

Oh, right. Let's go over this:


Shooting:
Cleary: 20-30 goal scorer when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: 20 goal scorer. Check.
Abdelkader: Developing, but he has shown flashes.

Passing:
Cleary: 20-30 assists per season when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: Did very well last year in this department. Check.
Abdelkader: It isn't really his forte.

Hitting:
Cleary: Uhm, yeah.
Bertuzzi: Less than usual, but he showed flashes during the playoffs.
Abdelkader: Was one of our leading hitters in the games he played.

No offense, bud... but you're a moron.


This pretty much sums up how I was going to respond to this... minus calling him a moron. That might just fuel 3 extra line combo threads per week.

#51 McAwesome

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:57 PM

If Babcock is trying to create 3 scoring lines and a grind/shutdown line, this is not the group of forwards to do it with, there are not enough scorers to fill 3 lines, plain and simple.

If you go with something like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Filppula/Franzen
Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary
Eaves/Helm/whomever

that gives us 2 stacked scoring lines and 2 wreckingball lines that also have some scoring potential.

No way Hudler or Filppula are going to be bumped down to the 3rd line in favor of Bertuzzi, at least not on a regular basis. Putting Bertuzzi together with Cleary and Abs will be one heck of a hard line to play against, they may not be the most scary line in terms of skill, but all 3 will crash the net (hopefully not all at the same time) and wear the opposing unit down, even if they spend their entire shift chasing the puck in the offensive zone, that is what a grinding line is supposed to do, forecheck and hit. The 4th line of Helm and Eaves + whoever will be our shut-down line, and having 2 4th-liners who hit double-digit goals last season is nothing to scoff at.

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#52 Crymson

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:10 PM

I don't critique line combinations very often but those are the worst lines I have ever seen.


It's Eva. In his eyes, Hudler is the savior of the team, and Eva feels it necessary to spread the word of Hudler's return.

As such, he feels it would be an insult for Hudler to be anywhere but on the top line. Thus the lines must be adjusted to accommodate Hudler's greatness.

#53 Broken 16

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:17 PM

cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.

and enough of this 'big body bert' bullcrap. he might measure 6-3, 250 in the doctor's office. but he's about 5-8, 165 on the ice.



He's hard to move and blocks the goalie like an eclipse. He would have a role on that line. He could be a good compliment to Cleary and Abby. He's still a decent finisher. If they taped his stick to both of his hands, that line would probably be very tough to play against imo.

#54 blueadams

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:37 PM

blueadams, on 17 June 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.



Oh, right. Let's go over this:


Shooting:
Cleary: 20-30 goal scorer when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: 20 goal scorer. Check.
Abdelkader: Developing, but he has shown flashes.

-----> So...is Homer a good 'shooter' too. He had a lot of goals, right?!? Those stats mean everything, right?? Standing in front of the net and getting garbage goals that others creat is now considered 'good shooting.' Okay. Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Abdelkader are all excellent shooters. You are 100% right.

Passing:
Cleary: 20-30 assists per season when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: Did very well last year in this department. Check.
Abdelkader: It isn't really his forte.

----->YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL ME THAT BERTUZZI IS A GOOD PASSER!? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. WOW. Todd-the human turnover-Bertuzzi, a great passer, hilarious. And no-hands Cleary!? You're killing me. Shut your mouth and watch the games, 'bud.'

Hitting:
Cleary: Uhm, yeah.
Bertuzzi: Less than usual, but he showed flashes during the playoffs.
Abdelkader: Was one of our leading hitters in the games he played.

----->I acknowledged that one of the three, abdelkader, could hit - "and only one of them hits anyone." If you're trying to tell me that Cleary, or Bertuzzi is any kind of a physical presence on the ice, then you simply haven't watched many games in the last year.

No offense, bud... but you're a moron.

----->I wouldn't throw rocks in a glass house there, bud. (I'd also think about actually, I don't know, WATCHING the games instead of just checking the stat lines). Its quite clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about...and hence...are not worthy of another response.

Edited by blueadams, 17 June 2010 - 07:39 PM.


#55 Buppy

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:51 PM

Oh, right. Let's go over this:


Shooting:
Cleary: 20-30 goal scorer when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: 20 goal scorer. Check.
Abdelkader: Developing, but he has shown flashes.

Passing:
Cleary: 20-30 assists per season when healthy. Check.
Bertuzzi: Did very well last year in this department. Check.
Abdelkader: It isn't really his forte.

Hitting:
Cleary: Uhm, yeah.
Bertuzzi: Less than usual, but he showed flashes during the playoffs.
Abdelkader: Was one of our leading hitters in the games he played.

No offense, bud... but you're a moron.


Cleary has a career high of 20 goals, those coming with significant top 6 play, mostly with Zetterberg, also with the likes of Filppula and Hudler. The last time Bert broke 20 was 5 years ago as a top 6 forward in Vancouver. Both rely heavily on their linemates to generate offense. What makes you think either could be productive without a real playmaker on the line? With that line, we'd be lucky to get 15 goals from either. I wouldn't expect more than 10-12. Abdelkader has some promise, but he hasn't been so impressive to warrant much confidence. If he hits 10 goals we should be happy.

That line might not be terrible defensively, but they wouldn't be shutting anyone down either. The lack of any decent puck carrier would mean playing dump and chase. Bert is way too slow and too soft along the boards to help much there, but Cleary and Abs would do alright; just not enough to be any real threat on offense, or even generate consistent pressure or wear anyone down. Abby is not very fast, Bert is slow as dirt, and even Cleary might lose some speed after all those injuries. I could see them getting pinned in the defensive zone for big stretches, either wearing out our defensemen or giving up a lot of goals. They could hit, but not so much that it would have any real impact. They'd bang in a handful of goals, but not enough to be considered a scoring line, certainly not enough that we could depend on it.

So...average to below-average defense, near-zero puck possession, mediocre scoring, marginal hitting, and absolutely nothing special from any of them. If that's really what you all think we were looking for from our third line then please tell me again why giving Bert $2 mil for the next 2 years was such a great signing.

#56 stevkrause

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:21 AM

This pretty much sums up how I was going to respond to this... minus calling him a moron. That might just fuel 3 extra line combo threads per week.

my exact though! haha

If Babcock is trying to create 3 scoring lines and a grind/shutdown line, this is not the group of forwards to do it with, there are not enough scorers to fill 3 lines, plain and simple.

If you go with something like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Filppula/Franzen
Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary
Eaves/Helm/whomever

that gives us 2 stacked scoring lines and 2 wreckingball lines that also have some scoring potential.

No way Hudler or Filppula are going to be bumped down to the 3rd line in favor of Bertuzzi, at least not on a regular basis. Putting Bertuzzi together with Cleary and Abs will be one heck of a hard line to play against, they may not be the most scary line in terms of skill, but all 3 will crash the net (hopefully not all at the same time) and wear the opposing unit down, even if they spend their entire shift chasing the puck in the offensive zone, that is what a grinding line is supposed to do, forecheck and hit. The 4th line of Helm and Eaves + whoever will be our shut-down line, and having 2 4th-liners who hit double-digit goals last season is nothing to scoff at.

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#57 HankthaTank

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 06:47 PM

Just merge all these already...
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#58 DatsyukianDeke13

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:24 PM

switch bertuzzi with hudler or cleary
Mixed feelings about this
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#59 Hockey Convert

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:30 PM

If Babcock is trying to create 3 scoring lines and a grind/shutdown line, this is not the group of forwards to do it with, there are not enough scorers to fill 3 lines, plain and simple.

If you go with something like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Filppula/Franzen
Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary
Eaves/Helm/whomever

that gives us 2 stacked scoring lines and 2 wreckingball lines that also have some scoring potential.

No way Hudler or Filppula are going to be bumped down to the 3rd line in favor of Bertuzzi, at least not on a regular basis. Putting Bertuzzi together with Cleary and Abs will be one heck of a hard line to play against, they may not be the most scary line in terms of skill, but all 3 will crash the net (hopefully not all at the same time) and wear the opposing unit down, even if they spend their entire shift chasing the puck in the offensive zone, that is what a grinding line is supposed to do, forecheck and hit. The 4th line of Helm and Eaves + whoever will be our shut-down line, and having 2 4th-liners who hit double-digit goals last season is nothing to scoff at.


You know; that's interesting. I'd be curious to see that in practice.





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