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Guest blueadams

Nice little article on our 2010/11 lines...

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http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010/06/st_james_ken_hollands_red_wing.html

He basically says that we have three scoring line centers - Pav, Hank, Flip. Three net presences - Homer, Bert, Clears. And two snipers - Mule, Huds. The third line sniper role will probably be filled by whoever steps up out of Abby, Eaves or Miller.

...too bad for flip, if true. much of his point potential will be wasted on that un-skilled 3rd line.

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Abdelkader-Filppula-Cleary

Miller-Helm-Eaves

Draper

(Ritola)

(Filppula)

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Kindl-Ericsson

Meech

Howard

Osgood

Edited by blueadams
T.Low and IILeiBlazeII like this

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...too bad for flip, if true. much of his point potential will be wasted on that un-skilled 3rd line.

"Filppula" and "potential" in the same sentence. Hmm.

He'll be put on a top line when he plays consistently at a top line level.

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"Filppula" and "potential" in the same sentence. Hmm.

He'll be put on a top line when he plays consistently at a top line level.

Just as Hudler was 2 years ago, right? Oh wait...

Drake_Marcus and LeftWinger like this

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"Filppula" and "potential" in the same sentence. Hmm.

He'll be put on a top line when he plays consistently at a top line level.

If you put him with good players then yes, he plays very well. On the other hand when you put him with scrubs like Cleary, who can't finish, then his potential is lost.

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I'd like to see Franzen play with Datsyuk rather than Zetterberg. Datsyuk is undoubtedly our best playmaker, whereas Franzen is definitely our best pure goal scorer. The two together should be able to make some noise.

Also, I can't see Flip playing on the 3rd line. With all the talk Babcock and Holland have been doing about how Flip needs to take a step this year, he's not going to do that on the 3rd line. I envision Flip playing with Zetterberg and Bertuzzi, Holmstrom playing with Datsyuk and Franzen. Babcock has always had something against Hudler, even before he left, so I'm not sure it's going to be any different now that he's back.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Flip-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Eaves-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-?????

That leaves room for another gritty 4th liner who can rotate with Draper, Ritola, and maybe Miller too if they decide to resign him.

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I Heart Line threads! What can I say, I really do. I could look at lines every day. I was Captain of a beer league team for a while and it's a blast putting lines together and watching them go. Especially when the team wins the league 3 out of the four seasons I was Captain! :cool:

First of all, Dan Cleary has finish and when he remains healthy this season he will break thru the 20 goal level. He and Filpula are going to have a helluva year as he has a lot to prove to the naybobs after his last two seasons of playing injured. Go Dan Cleary, Go.

2ndly, Filp will step up his finish, because Babcock will demand it of him, and he certainly has the ability. He will score more goals this season.

Then figure that Eaves, Abdelkrasher, and Rittola all have scoring ability that can be bumped up a notch. The each can be rotated depending on who's hot.

With opponents having their hands full with the first two lines, this Wings 3rd line could really have a scoring impact.

Lastly, injuires to the top two lines are inevitable so Filp could certainly see a certain amount of time up there anyway, and talk about great insurance. This gives the Wings a lot of depth considering we're in the age of the socialistic salary cap (the market is not determining what is spent, the governing body is).

Cleary was the s*** for the Belleville Bulls, 115pts in 64 games,dayam:

...........................................GP G A Pts

1993–94 Kingston OJHL .......41 18 28 46

1994–95 Belleville Bulls OHL 62 26 55 81

1995–96 Belleville Bulls OHL 64 53 62 115

1996–97 Belleville Bulls OHL 64 32 48 80

Edit: And the fact that this line thread quotes Babcock talking about the lines is what seperates it from most line threads.

Edited by T.Low

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didn't even think about that...

ritola or flip sr. could step up and become that third line sniper!

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didn't even think about that...

ritola or flip sr. could step up and become that third line sniper!

Mmm, I forgot about IFilp already...

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...

First of all, Dan Cleary has finish and when he remains healthy this season he will break thru the 20 goal level. He and Filpula are going to have a helluva year as he has a lot to prove to the naybobs after his last two seasons of playing injured. Go Dan Cleary, Go.

2ndly, Filp will step up his finish, because Babcock will demand it of him, and he certainly has the ability. He will score more goals this season.

Then figure that Eaves, Abdelkrasher, and Rittola all have scoring ability that can be bumped up a notch. The each can be rotated depending on who's hot.

With opponents having their hands full with the first two lines, this Wings 3rd line could really have a scoring impact.

...

Cleary wasn't really injured two years ago. He just had a poor year and struggled to find his place. Maybe he'll do well this year, maybe not. We don't really have the ice time to go around, someone is going to suffer for it. Injuries will certainly open up some time, but who's to say if it will be enough or the right injuries. Flip, Hudler, and Bert all face the same problem.

We got 40 ES goals from Happy-Flip-Sammy a couple years ago, with a significantly better top 6 in front of them. We got 25 this past year from Draper-Helm-Eaves. A realistic expectation is somewhere between those two.

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Cleary wasn't really injured two years ago. He just had a poor year and struggled to find his place. Maybe he'll do well this year, maybe not. We don't really have the ice time to go around, someone is going to suffer for it. Injuries will certainly open up some time, but who's to say if it will be enough or the right injuries. Flip, Hudler, and Bert all face the same problem.

We got 40 ES goals from Happy-Flip-Sammy a couple years ago, with a significantly better top 6 in front of them. We got 25 this past year from Draper-Helm-Eaves. A realistic expectation is somewhere between those two.

A broken jaw caused him to miss 19 games two seasons ago. It's difficult to play the hard nosed style he does that made him successful while ou are recovering from a broken jaw, full face helmet or not. I'd call that a season with a significant (enough)injury.

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I'd like to see Franzen play with Datsyuk rather than Zetterberg. Datsyuk is undoubtedly our best playmaker, whereas Franzen is definitely our best pure goal scorer. The two together should be able to make some noise.

Also, I can't see Flip playing on the 3rd line. With all the talk Babcock and Holland have been doing about how Flip needs to take a step this year, he's not going to do that on the 3rd line. I envision Flip playing with Zetterberg and Bertuzzi, Holmstrom playing with Datsyuk and Franzen. Babcock has always had something against Hudler, even before he left, so I'm not sure it's going to be any different now that he's back.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Flip-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Eaves-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-?????

That leaves room for another gritty 4th liner who can rotate with Draper, Ritola, and maybe Miller too if they decide to resign him.

It's difficult to disagree with you because you make such a valid point.

However, there are two reasons why I'm going to have to disagree.

Fanzen Zetterberg Bertuzzi seems like an incredible force to try to defend against. Look at the size, the talent, the hustle, the hands, the passing, the scoring. That should be quite a line.

And Franzen on the same line as Holmer seems to make Holmer almost redudant.

While I agree that you may get more of Franzen's ability by putting him with Datsyuk, I think you will get more out of the top six overall by having him with Z and Bert.

Edited by T.Low

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A broken jaw caused him to miss 19 games two seasons ago. It's difficult to play the hard nosed style he does that made him successful while ou are recovering from a broken jaw, full face helmet or not. I'd call that a season with a significant (enough)injury.

That was the '07-08 season. 3 years ago. Two years ago he played 74 games. I don't recall the actual injury, but it was early in the year. He was pretty much healthy for the majority of the season.

...

And Franzen on the same line as Holmer seems to make Holmer almost redudant.

...

Franzen and Homer are nothing alike. Bert is much closer to Homer than Mule is.

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Franzen and Homer are nothing alike. Bert is much closer to Homer than Mule is.

This is true. Mule used to be a Holmstrom style presence but in the past several seasons has really developed his hands and his ability to finish. The main thing I was looking forward to last season was seeing a healthy Mule play a full season. Hopefully this is the year. I think he is easily good for 40 goals and 75 points.

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Looks great to me, especially seeing Franzen on a line with Zetterberg. No more of this Franzen with Datsyuk combination -- Mule has always shown great chemistry with Z and they should play together.

The only potential thing I could see is possibly putting Hudler down on Filppula's wing as the two have played well together previously. Move Bertuzzi up with Datsyuk and Holmstrom, reunite Cleary with Franzen and Zetterberg.

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What are the chances that these lines stay the same throughout the entire season, and never change?

Line combo threads are fun from game to game, but a whole season line thread is absurd to even plan for or talk about. These lines will probably change after a few games into the season.

Edited by GMRwings1983
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I want to see...

Hudler, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Franzen, Zetterberg, Cleary

Bertuzzi, V.Filppula, Ritola ( I.Filppula)

Abdelkader, Helm, Eaves (Miller, Draper)

Lidstrom, Kronwall

Rafalski, Stuart

Ericsson, Kindl

Meech(Lilja)

be about it... :thumbup:

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Color me confused, but.... Why are we looking to re-sign Drew Miller and Derek Meech in the $700k range when we could sign someone else to the league minimum that would contribute just as much.

At forward we have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Helm, Eaves, Abdelkader... Thats 11 forwards who I think are better and then we also have Draper and Riotla already signed. That's a total of 13 forwards. What place does Miller have here? Theres just no room. If we want to bring in another forward, let it be someone that brings something to the table that we dont already have.

At defense we have

Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericcson, Kindl.. Thats six defenseman above Meech on the pecking order. If Meech doesnt want to play for the league minimum, then good bye. If we want to spend in the 700-850 range, go out and get someone that brings some physicallity to the table.

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That was the '07-08 season. 3 years ago. Two years ago he played 74 games. I don't recall the actual injury, but it was early in the year. He was pretty much healthy for the majority of the season.

2008/11/28 Missed 8 games (left eye injury)

Edited by Mickey Redmond

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I Heart Line threads! What can I say, I really do. I could look at lines every day. I was Captain of a beer league team for a while and it's a blast putting lines together and watching them go. Especially when the team wins the league 3 out of the four seasons I was Captain! :cool:

First of all, Dan Cleary has finish and when he remains healthy this season he will break thru the 20 goal level. He and Filpula are going to have a helluva year as he has a lot to prove to the naybobs after his last two seasons of playing injured. Go Dan Cleary, Go.

2ndly, Filp will step up his finish, because Babcock will demand it of him, and he certainly has the ability. He will score more goals this season.

Then figure that Eaves, Abdelkrasher, and Rittola all have scoring ability that can be bumped up a notch. The each can be rotated depending on who's hot.

With opponents having their hands full with the first two lines, this Wings 3rd line could really have a scoring impact.

Lastly, injuires to the top two lines are inevitable so Filp could certainly see a certain amount of time up there anyway, and talk about great insurance. This gives the Wings a lot of depth considering we're in the age of the socialistic salary cap (the market is not determining what is spent, the governing body is).

Cleary was the s*** for the Belleville Bulls, 115pts in 64 games,dayam:

...........................................GP G A Pts

1993–94 Kingston OJHL .......41 18 28 46

1994–95 Belleville Bulls OHL 62 26 55 81

1995–96 Belleville Bulls OHL 64 53 62 115

1996–97 Belleville Bulls OHL 64 32 48 80

Edit: And the fact that this line thread quotes Babcock talking about the lines is what seperates it from most line threads.

Ya and Kirk Maltby once scored 50 goals in juniors too! :P

:hysterical: at Hudler being labeled a sniper!

Color me confused, but.... Why are we looking to re-sign Drew Miller and Derek Meech in the $700k range when we could sign someone else to the league minimum that would contribute just as much.

At forward we have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Helm, Eaves, Abdelkader... Thats 11 forwards who I think are better and then we also have Draper and Riotla already signed. That's a total of 13 forwards. What place does Miller have here? Theres just no room. If we want to bring in another forward, let it be someone that brings something to the table that we dont already have.

At defense we have

Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericcson, Kindl.. Thats six defenseman above Meech on the pecking order. If Meech doesnt want to play for the league minimum, then good bye. If we want to spend in the 700-850 range, go out and get someone that brings some physicallity to the table.

Yep, just like we all fear, same team plus Hudler, Stanley Cup here we come!

I want to see...

Hudler, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Franzen, Zetterberg, Cleary

Bertuzzi, V.Filppula, Ritola ( I.Filppula)

Abdelkader, Helm, Eaves (Miller, Draper)

Lidstrom, Kronwall

Rafalski, Stuart

Ericsson, Kindl

Meech(Lilja)

be about it... :thumbup:

:taunt:

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Cleary wasn't really injured two years ago. He just had a poor year and struggled to find his place. Maybe he'll do well this year, maybe not.

He was playing on the 3rd line in that regular season. He still put up 40 points. In the postseason, he was one of the best players on the team. He had 15 points and his +/- was absurdly high (+17).

Of course, these are things that people like you will continually omit in argument; you know they'll weaken your case, and so instead of admitting that you have a weak argument, you simply don't include important info and hope that nobody else will either. Good work.

Edited by Crymson
Zeowingsfan and Drake_Marcus like this

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He was playing on the 3rd line in that regular season. He still put up 40 points. In the postseason, he was one of the best players on the team. He had 15 points and his +/- was absurdly high (+17).

Of course, these are things that people like you will continually omit in argument; you know they'll weaken your case, and so instead of admitting that you have a weak argument, you simply don't include important info and hope that nobody else will either. Good work.

3rd line?

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen. 1:45/game on the PP. Even playing on the third line was with players like Flip, Hudler, and Sammy.

He had a poor year. He was not fighting through injuries all season. He was not stuck with poor linemates. He just had a poor season (in relation to what we were hoping to get from him). For the record, I'm not saying he's a poor player, or that we should get rid of him if we could. I said he was not fighting injuries 2 years ago, and still had a bad year. Those are facts. I said he, or someone else, will get stuck on the third line and their production will suffer for it. (Something you apparently agree with from your statement about Cleary... even if it wasn't accurate.)

Of course, these are things that people like you continually omit. You make emotional statements without any factual foundation or research to support your arguments. Rather than admitting you have a weak argument, you don't bother to check if you even have an argument, nor try to understand what it is you're arguing against. Good work.

Edited by Buppy

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Just as Hudler was 2 years ago, right? Oh wait...

2008-2009

Hudler

23 Goals, 34 Assists, 57 points (Regular Season)

4 Goals, 8 Assists, 12 points (Playoffs)

Fillpula

12 Goals, 28 Assists, 40 points (Regular Season)

3 Goals, 13 Assists, 16 points (Playoffs)

When's the last time Fillpula has cracked 20 goals in a season? Because to automatically assume a guy who has never cracked 20 goals in a season should without a doubt be placed on the top 2 lines is a big stretch. Especially when you'd have to take someone off those lines who have all proven they can produce.

From time to time Fillpula has shown that he can be the player everyone thinks he can be, but again, until the points come and he does it on a consistent basis the other 6 guys ahead of him should stay put.

If you put him with good players then yes, he plays very well. On the other hand when you put him with scrubs like Cleary, who can't finish, then his potential is lost.

Again, if Filppula has the talent that everyone seems to think he has then you can't "waste" talent like that since good players are supposed to make everyone around them better and the points should come. And if he shows he can produce, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be on the top 2 lines. It's not a bias I have, it's just hockey.

Edited by BleedRed&White

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Looks great to me, especially seeing Franzen on a line with Zetterberg. No more of this Franzen with Datsyuk combination -- Mule has always shown great chemistry with Z and they should play together.

The only potential thing I could see is possibly putting Hudler down on Filppula's wing as the two have played well together previously. Move Bertuzzi up with Datsyuk and Holmstrom, reunite Cleary with Franzen and Zetterberg.

I actually really like that idea.

Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen

Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi

Eaves-Filpulla-Hudler

Abdelkader-Helm-Miller/FA/Ritola/Draper

The top line was the most dominate in the 09 playoffs, the 2nd line started to develop a little chemistry after 10-15 games last year when everyone was banged up, the 3rd line is pretty much a 2nd line, especially if Eaves stays healthy. And then the 4th line is a line that can run people through the boards all night.

The board is starting to go overboard with all of the line combo's lately though lol, that's my last contribution until training camp. I'm sure before it's all said and done Mike will have tried alot of stuff.

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...When's the last time Fillpula has cracked 20 goals in a season? Because to automatically assume a guy who has never cracked 20 goals in a season should without a doubt be placed on the top 2 lines is a big stretch. Especially when you'd have to take someone off those lines who have all proven they can produce.

From time to time Fillpula has shown that he can be the player everyone thinks he can be, but again, until the points come and he does it on a consistent basis the other 6 guys ahead of him should stay put.

Again, if Filppula has the talent that everyone seems to think he has then you can't "waste" talent like that since good players are supposed to make everyone around them better and the points should come. And if he shows he can produce, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be on the top 2 lines. It's not a bias I have, it's just hockey.

Flip is a playmaker. As such, he needs players capable of finishing to really produce. No one is claiming he's an all-star. Unless you're talking about elite players, then talent can certainly be 'wasted' by being used in a too-limited role. Most players need an opportunity in the top lines before they start producing like top line players. Those 'flashes' are what earn the opportunity, and Flip has shown more than a few. Performing well once you get the opportunities is what keeps you there. Flip has done that as well, IMO.

With the personnel we have, I think we'd be better off with Flip centering the third line, but I don't know how anyone who has watched the guy play could say he doesn't deserve a shot at a top line role.

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