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#21 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:25 PM

So useless I could name you about 10 or 15 of them in the NHL off the top of my head. Not that Im going to, obviously.

Aaron Downey anyone?

Depends on the make up of the team.

I'm talking about guys like Colton Orr who really don't add anything besides that fighting element. It would've been different ten or twenty years ago. Players like Orr are easy to ignore by opponents and they tend to take stupid penalties trying to instigate a fight, because they can't play regular hockey.

As I said, if Konopka can play regular shifts, keep up the pace and kill some penalties I have nothing against it.

Players like Colton Orr, Riley Cote are pretty useless. If you can't play normal competitive hockey besides fighting you don't belong in the NHL.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 20 June 2010 - 01:29 PM.

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#22 uk_redwing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:28 PM

Players like Colton Orr, Riley Cote are pretty useless. If you can't play a regular shifts besides fighting you don't belong in the NHL.


And yet they're there and just last offseason Kenny tried to sign the very Colton Orr you're talking about. What does that tell you?

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#23 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:32 PM

I'm talking about guys like Colton Orr who really don't add anything besides that fighting element. It would've been different ten or twenty years ago. Players like Orr are easy to ignore by opponents and they tend to take stupid penalties trying to instigate a fight, because they can't play regular hockey.

As I said, if Konopka can play regular shifts, keep up the pace and kill some penalties I have nothing against it.

Players like Colton Orr, Riley Cote are pretty useless. If you can't play a regular shifts besides fighting you don't belong in the NHL.

While there are some players like that still in the NHL (Godard, Cote, Koci), I would be careful to call Orr a one-dimensional player. Orr can play a regular shift and has played all 82 games the past two seasons. IMO he is the best enforcer in the league and his 1m salary is evidence of this.

#24 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:33 PM

And yet they're there and just last offseason Kenny tried to sign the very Colton Orr you're talking about. What does that tell you?

That he avoided a mistake there. It's not like Kenny doesn't make any mistakes. Just re-signed Bertuzzi and gave media comments about re-siging Maltby.

While there are some players like that still in the NHL (Godard, Cote, Koci), I would be careful to call Orr a one-dimensional player. Orr can play a regular shift and has played all 82 games the past two seasons. IMO he is the best enforcer in the league and his 1m salary is evidence of this.

How is he the best "enforcer" exactly? Do you mean he's best because he's good at fighting or best because he's the best player of all the enforcers?
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#25 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:34 PM

That he avoided a mistake there. It's not like Kenny doesn't make any mistakes. Just re-signed Bertuzzi and gave media comments about re-siging Maltby.

How is he the best "enforcer" exactly? Do you mean he's best because he's good at fighting or best because he's the best player of all the enforcers?

And signed that finnish plug Filpulla with no potential at 28 years old. Yeah he does make mistakes :cool:

Orr is a good all around player. Just as good as a guy like Draper at this point in his career but is also probably the second toughest guy in the league. He's one of the best at his role.

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#26 redwingfan19

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:35 PM

I didn't know about his defensive game but if its good then I've heard enough. 62% on faceoffs and a solid defensive guy that hits and fights. Thats a classic 4th line guy right there.


if kenny is serious about signing a gritty guy that can play this would be the guy I think. Of course asham or winchester would also be nice but they may be out of price range. Konopka made the minimum last season so the wings may be able to get him for the minimum or maybe a bit more.
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#27 Buppy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:37 PM

I'd rather just get Helm, Abby, and Eaves signed, keep Ritola and spend the rest on the best defenseman we can get. Ritola needs more than a seat in the press box if we're going to keep him. Give him a chance and if he doesn't pan out, then we can try to trade him for someone like this.

I would rather have Eaves over any of the other FAs in that price range. Miller, Konopka, Nystrom, Winchester, Pyatt, Artyhukin, and probably a few other I'm forgetting would be good backup options if we can't get Eaves.

#28 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:39 PM

Cam Janssen
Colton Orr
Eric Boulton
Derek Boogaard
George Parros
Wade Belak
David Koci
Raitis Ivanans
Brian McGrattan
Darcy Hordichuk
Andrew Peters

These guys aren't "useless" just cause they don't score goals.So the argument that "players who only fight and can't score or skate don't have a place in the NHL" is invalid because looking at the list above,they obviously do.
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#29 redwingfan19

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:40 PM

That he avoided a mistake there. It's not like Kenny doesn't make any mistakes. Just re-signed Bertuzzi and gave media comments about re-siging Maltby.


how was not signing orr avoiding a mistake?? we ended up with brad may. I love may and what he provided this team but orr is better and would take him over may any day.
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#30 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:40 PM

And signed that finnish plug Filpulla with no potential at 28 years old. Yeah he does make mistakes :cool:

Orr is a good all around player. Just as good as a guy like Draper at this point in his career but is also probably the second toughest guy in the league. He's one of the best at his role.

How is signing a FEL playoff MVP for 500k two-way deal to GR which needs offense a mistake actually? Just because you don't like something about the player? Oh, I forgot... you know nothing about the player.

Then there must be very bad players in that role, because what I've seen from him aside fighting is making himself look like a jerk taking stupid penalties. I'd say "the best enforcer" should rather be the best player who is enforcer than a enforcer who's the best fighter. If Colton Orr really is the best player among enforcer, then I'm pretty shocked.
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#31 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:58 PM

How is he the best "enforcer" exactly? Do you mean he's best because he's good at fighting or best because he's the best player of all the enforcers?

In order to be an effective enforcer, they have to actually play in most games and be on the ice. Orr has been able to do this for the past three years. I'd consider him the best because of how he policed for the Leafs this year. He was always there to respond when something happened or when the team needed a spark. He also seemed to be one of the more intimidating players in the NHL. Against Philly this year, he ran everyone in sight without retribution. IMO he was the best at playing the enforcing role while actually being a good enough player to deserve his ice-time.

#32 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:02 PM

How is signing a FEL playoff MVP for 500k two-way deal to GR which needs offense a mistake actually? Just because you don't like something about the player? Oh, I forgot... you know nothing about the player.

Then there must be very bad players in that role, because what I've seen from him aside fighting is making himself look like a jerk taking stupid penalties. I'd say "the best enforcer" should rather be the best player who is enforcer than a enforcer who's the best fighter. If Colton Orr really is the best player among enforcer, then I'm pretty shocked.

Yeah just because you don't like that Orr fights but doesn't score goals you don't like him. How many leafs/ rangers games did youw atch last year in Finland. I guarantee I've seen more.

And I do know something about iflip. He's 28 so his potential is gone, and we don't need a player like him.

I'd rather just get Helm, Abby, and Eaves signed, keep Ritola and spend the rest on the best defenseman we can get. Ritola needs more than a seat in the press box if we're going to keep him. Give him a chance and if he doesn't pan out, then we can try to trade him for someone like this.

I would rather have Eaves over any of the other FAs in that price range. Miller, Konopka, Nystrom, Winchester, Pyatt, Artyhukin, and probably a few other I'm forgetting would be good backup options if we can't get Eaves.

I would take Nystrom over Eaves but youre right Eaves over anyone else on that list for me. Nystrom has just as much goal scoring potential as Eaves with a tougher game.

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#33 T.Low

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:05 PM

Good videos.

I don't know much about him. I do have a serious question. If he were the type of guy the Wings could really use, why isn't he the type of guy Stevie Y wouldn't want to keep?

#34 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:11 PM

Good videos.

I don't know much about him. I do have a serious question. If he were the type of guy the Wings could really use, why isn't he the type of guy Stevie Y wouldn't want to keep?

Well Tampa Bay is one of the tougher teams in the league so he isn't needed as much as he would be in Detroit. Konopka is one of about 3 heavyweights on Tampa so it wouldn't be bad if Stevie lost him for their team. Konopka is a free agent too so he might wanna get out of a place like Tampa and win some hockey games. Also Konopka is from Niagra falls so besides Toronto and Buffalo, Detroit is the closest place to his hometown.

Edited by newfy, 20 June 2010 - 02:13 PM.

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#35 Buppy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:12 PM

{names}
These guys aren't "useless" just cause they don't score goals.So the argument that "players who only fight and can't score or skate don't have a place in the NHL" is invalid because looking at the list above,they obviously do.


To be fair, there are also plenty of non-fighters in the league that don't really belong here.

#36 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:16 PM

To be fair, there are also plenty of non-fighters in the league that don't really belong here.

Yeah I would say the soft, skilled tpye guys that don't put up points in this league should be gone before enforcers are. Enforcers at least do something out there. Soft, skilled guys like Freddy Sjorstrom types that do nothing are the most useless of all hockey players. Yeah they can skate and fighter types are suually slower but they should be gone before the fighters are.

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#37 Swayze

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:22 PM

...I was expecting him to be czech/have a full-on accent or something, weird. Kinda like back in the day when we got Robert Lang and I thought he was totally north american...then I heard him speak.

#38 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:26 PM

Yeah just because you don't like that Orr fights but doesn't score goals you don't like him. How many leafs/ rangers games did youw atch last year in Finland. I guarantee I've seen more.

And I do know something about iflip. He's 28 so his potential is gone, and we don't need a player like him.

I've seen more Colton Orr's games than you've seen Ilari Filppula's games. I've also seen many Ilari Filppula's games.

We don't need players who don't have any potential left? OK. First of all, Red Wings have numerous examples of players who reach their peak as late 20's. Second of all, GR needs offense and this player provides it. It's two-way deal and he only gets 500k. You've got basically no VALID arguments for why we shouldn't need a player like him.
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#39 NGKEIB

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:35 PM

Yeah I would say the soft, skilled tpye guys that don't put up points in this league should be gone before enforcers are. Enforcers at least do something out there. Soft, skilled guys like Freddy Sjorstrom types that do nothing are the most useless of all hockey players. Yeah they can skate and fighter types are suually slower but they should be gone before the fighters are.


Sjöström is actually a great penalty killer. He and Betts were a great tandem in New York.
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#40 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:37 PM

Sjöström is actually a great penalty killer. He and Betts were a great tandem in New York.

He can't be! HE'S NOT FROM NORTH AMERICA!
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