Holland Looking to sign an Enforcer

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Winchester is on the outs from the Blues too I read. He's a pretty good possibility. Does Holland want a guy like him though or does he want a Brad May/ Downey type player that won't take away from other guys ice time and will fight absolutely anyone.

At LGW we keep throwing around guys like Asham Nystrom and Winchester but maybe Holland just wants a cheaper Konopka type guy

He's said in the past that they don't just want a guy who'll fight. The only other intangible that Konopka would bring is his face-off skills (62%). I think they would take Winchester @ 700-750K over Konopka at 500K.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be opposed to a guy who fights 20+ times a year, but I think guys like Asham, Nystrom and Winchester who fight a lot less, but do other things would be more up Holland's alley.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

And you want someone who can be used late in games and during the playoffs.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The thing with Boll is that he can fight anyone in the league as well as hit just as hard or harder then Abby. Thats what he brings to the team that other people don't. A guy like Asham doesn't really bring anything that this team doesn't have already either.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want Asham but he'll be more expenisive and won't be as tough on the forecheck or as tough of a fighter. He's more of a third line guy, Boll would be a really good 4th line guy since he can skate, hits and will fight anything.

May wasn't the best skater, but like Boll he fought all the time and hit people. The point is, that type of player isn't needed.

[newfy 695]

May wasn't the best skater, but like Boll he fought all the time and hit people. The point is, that type of player isn't needed.

May and Boll are hardly even compareable really. Boll is way better skater, fights more, hits harder and way more often and can chip in offensively.

Boll isn't an old school enforcer that can't play and he's still young so his game is goign to get better yet.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

May wasn't the best skater, but like Boll he fought all the time and hit people. The point is, that type of player isn't needed.

May has never fought as much as Boll has the past three seasons. In his prime, May had more skill than most of the enforcers around. The problem with May this year was his age- he just couldn't keep up. How is a player that hits all the time and fights not needed? If he can skate, be responsible defensively, and forecheck hard there is no (little) downside. He's not a goal scorer, but few ~750k players that fight are. Also, Helm and Eaves can easily carry the offensive power of the forth line.

[newfy 695]

May has never fought as much as Boll has the past three seasons. In his prime, May had more skill than most of the enforcers around. The problem with May this year was his age- he just couldn't keep up. How is a player that hits all the time and fights not needed? If he can skate, be responsible defensively, and forecheck hard there is no (little) downside. He's not a goal scorer, but few ~750k players that fight are. Also, Helm and Eaves can easily carry the offensive power of the forth line.

Pretty much the only ones that do score are good player on ELCs. We hardlty have 4th line guys that score now.

Miller had 19 points this year and that was playing up on the PP etc because of injuries, Boll had 14 points the season before last, so whats reall the difference of 5 points on a 4th line when one guy can fight anyone in the league and hits much harder.

Trade Millers sights for the rights to Boll. Boll is 2 years younger as well.

Edited June 22, 2010 by newfy

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

May and Boll are hardly even compareable really. Boll is way better skater, fights more, hits harder and way more often and can chip in offensively.

Boll isn't an old school enforcer that can't play and he's still young so his game is goign to get better yet.

Comparing the two in regards to hitting/fighting wasn't my objective and my message got lost in the translation as a result. The point is Boll isn't going to score more than 20 points in a season (hell, last year he only scored 7 all season), which was my argument against him. Adding a player like him doesn't provide anything of *great importance* the Wings haven't already had the past few years in the players they've brought in to protect the stars. The other things he brings to the table besides fighting are overrated.

Now, a guy like Drake in his prime is what I'm arguing for. Obviously not a solid comparison given the difference between these two, but that's my argument for Asham (the offensive side of his game) if the Wings are gonna bring in a guy like that.

May has never fought as much as Boll has the past three seasons. In his prime, May had more skill than most of the enforcers around. The problem with May this year was his age- he just couldn't keep up. How is a player that hits all the time and fights not needed? If he can skate, be responsible defensively, and forecheck hard there is no (little) downside. He's not a goal scorer, but few ~750k players that fight are. Also, Helm and Eaves can easily carry the offensive power of the forth line.

Both Abdelkader and Helm hit and their skating (Helm's especially) are top-notch as well. They don't fight, but my point is bringing in a guy like Boll is a waste given his sole difference will be that he drops the mits. And no, at this point in his career he's not good defensively.

[newfy 695]

Comparing the two in regards to hitting/fighting wasn't my objective and my message got lost in the translation as a result. The point is Boll isn't going to score more than 20 points in a season, which was my argument against him. Adding a player like him doesn't provide anything of *great importance* the Wings haven't already had the past few years in the players they've brought in to protect the stars. The other things he brings to the table besides fighting are overrated.

Now, a guy like Drake in his prime is what I'm arguing for. Obviously not a solid comparison given the difference between these two, but the that's my argument for Asham (the offensive side of his game).

Both Abdelkader and Helm hit and their skating (Helm's especially) are top-notch as well. They don't fight, but my point is bringing in a guy like Boll is a waste given his sole difference will be that he drops the mits. And no, at this point in his career he's not good defensively.

Helm is fast and hits but he doesn't seem like his hits are really damaging. Abdelkader is a heavy hitter but why does a team have to have only one heavy hitter on the 4th line?

Our 4th line this year consisted of Miller, May, Maltby and even Draper. Boll would provide more to this team then any of them except for maybe Draper because he is still fast ad a leader. Boll wouldn't provide a tonne to this team but he would have the other teams defense keeping their heads up and would have other teams tough guys in their place.

I would go for a drake type player but Boll is still an upgrade over what we had last year on the 4th line. Boll is like 23 so could get a bit more offense but he has much above average puck skill for an enforcer type guy.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Comparing the two in regards to hitting/fighting wasn't my objective and my message got lost in the translation as a result. The point is Boll isn't going to score more than 20 points in a season, which was my argument against him. Adding a player like him doesn't provide anything of *great importance* the Wings haven't already had the past few years. The things he does bring to the table are overrated.

Now, a guy like Drake in his prime is what I'm arguing for. Obviously not a solid comparison given the difference between these two, but the that's my argument for Asham (the offensive side of his game).

I see what you're trying to say now. However, forth line players rarely score more than 20 points in a season as a whole. They just aren't on the ice long enough to score that often, and the talent level isn't there. If the Wings are going to have three scoring lines next year, the forth better be able to cycle and hit all day. Also, prime Drake and Asham are third line players and would/will command more than ~750k. With Helm and Eaves, I wouldn't be surprised to see Boll break 20 points. He managed 14 a couple seasons ago with CBJ's forth line, so I'd say it's within reach.

I'd like to trade Miller and/or Meech to CBJ for Boll. There's no room for Miller, and I liked Janik more than Meech (who will never be more than the 7th D here, so it'd be nice to see him play regularly elsewhere).

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

No one's saying the Wings wouldn't benefit from another tough forward, but moves already need to be made to round out the roster. Again, not an argument for not bringing in an upgrade, but noteworthy nonetheless.

The Wings top three lines are likely going to consist of Z, Dats, Franzen, Homer, Hudler, Cleary, Filppula, Bertuzzi and one of Helm, Eaves or Miller. That's three solid scoring lines which only leaves one line to round things out. It's looking like Eaves and Abdelkader will be a part of those plans and Miller is the wild-card at this point. If Kenny's gonna add a guy, its going to be a fourth liner that can actually add something to this team not only in the physical sense, but offensively as well. That's where if I feel if he's going to go that route, it should be for a guy like Asham that actually has offensive talent and *has shown it*. Boll hasn't.

Sidenote: I gotta run, but I'll continue with this discussion with you guys tomorrow if you're around.

[Finnish Wing 110]

The Wings top three lines are likely going to consist of Z, Dats, Franzen, Homer, Hudler, Cleary, Filppula, Bertuzzi and one of Helm, Eaves or Miller.

I'd rather see Abdelkader playing in the 3rd over Helm, Eaves or Miller. Edited June 22, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I'd rather see Abdelkader playing in the 3rd over Helm, Eaves or Miller.

It wasn't meant to be a discussion on that front. That could happen just as well.

[grwingfan 21]

Would the Wings look at Boogaard for the enforcer?

Edited June 22, 2010 by grwingfan

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I'd rather see Abdelkader playing in the 3rd over Helm, Eaves or Miller.

Can't envision Miller coming back whatsoever and if he does hopefully steers clear of the 3rd line. Not a Miller hater by any means but with Huds back and Bert as well, no way does he crack the 3rd and maybe not even 4. Abby all the way.

Edited June 22, 2010 by HankthaTank

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I'd rather see Abdelkader playing in the 3rd over Helm, Eaves or Miller.

I think this may be the first time we wholly agree. Abby has much more offensive upside than Helm, Eaves (was touted as a high prospect), and Miller. Also, keeping Eaves and Helm together on the forth would set the foundation for one of the more skilled forth lines in the league.

[djdan 2]

1-JARED BOLL

2-ERIC BOULTON

3-ZENON KONOPKA

[BruiseBrother 2]

the Boogyman all the way....didn't he go to Pav's hockey school a few years back?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

In Boogaard we trust!

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

In Boogaard we trust!

You do realize we already have Hudler, right?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I think Abdelkader will start the year centering the 4th line,and maybe by the end of the year,Babs moves him up to the 3rd and Helm down to the fourth.Abdelkader has offensive upside,and I think once he starts to show a little more offensive skill,he'll find himself centering the 3rd line.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I think Abdelkader will start the year centering the 4th line,and maybe by the end of the year,Babs moves him up to the 3rd and Helm down to the fourth.Abdelkader has offensive upside,and I think once he starts to show a little more offensive skill,he'll find himself centering the 3rd line.

He's shown the skill while in the AHL, while Helm has shown that he is a solid player with limited offensive upside. I think Abby can win the third line spot in camp/preseason when he gets the chance to play with more skilled players. Most of his regular season time in Detroit was spent with May and Maltby, so he hasn't been given much of a chance to perform offensively.

[stuck in socal 56]

Instead of an enforcer, I would rather have them sign another "Dallas Drake" type player. Essentially, someone who hasn't won a cup and is winding down in the stages of their career but can provide that spark once the playoffs start. (Break open the UFA lists)

I am against signing an enforcer if it resembles what we got out of Downey and May. May didn't even dress often, and he had a very minor enforcing role on the the team. I saw the threads on Zonopka and the other enforcers and they do seem more useful than what Downey and May provided.

[Buppy 1,720]

He's shown the skill while in the AHL, while Helm has shown that he is a solid player with limited offensive upside. I think Abby can win the third line spot in camp/preseason when he gets the chance to play with more skilled players. Most of his regular season time in Detroit was spent with May and Maltby, so he hasn't been given much of a chance to perform offensively.

Possibly, even hopefully, but I wouldn't bet on it. Mostly I expect Flip to be centering the third line, and if not I think Helm is far enough ahead at the moment to take it for now. Miller, May, and Maltby aren't that far below Draper and Eaves, and there was a pretty big difference in effectiveness between Helm and Abby. I think Helm is just better right now.

Eventually, I think Abby can be an ideal 3rd line center. Defense, hitting, agitating, fighting, and scoring all at a decent level. I just don't think he'll hit that level this year.

[HenryMalredo 2]

I think Holland will go with another Downey/May type. Unless the Wings lose more of the their bottom-six then expected, there's no room for any enforcer that will be getting regular playing time.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The 1997 team was by far the toughest.

You had Shanny, Mac, Kocur, Lapointe had great upper body strength. Plus you had Vladdy who, even though he didn't fight all that much, was the kind of player that teams absolutely hated to play against.

I think a lot of us are begging for a team like that again.

Definitely. And that team had great size too. Shanny, Fedorov, Mac, Fetisov, Sandstrom, Dandenault, Pushor, Homer, Ward, Murphy, Eriksson, Kocur. All those guys were at least 6 feet tall and over 200 lbs.