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Sakic vs Yzerman Debate


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#21 Yzermania19

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:54 AM

Maybe it's my Red Wings bias showing but I have to give the edge to Stevie - he has more goals, more points, more Cups and he was captain of the Wings longer than Joe was the captain of the Avs. Joe didn't change his game halfway through his career to become more of a two-way center (regardless of the reason he did it). Also, Stevie suffered that horrific knee injury early in his career and went on to play another 18 years on a knee that was steadily deteriorating and required multiple procedures over the years just to keep it in semi-working order. Not to mention his heroic performance in the 2002 playoffs when it finally did give out and his comeback after a knee realignment surgery that old people get just so they can walk.

In terms of leadership and respect, I think they're pretty close but I would still give the edge to Stevie. He is the epitome of a class act and has the utmost respect throughout the league. Do you think the fans of Tampa Bay would have gone just as gaga over Joe being named the GM as they did over Stevie? I don't.

However, Joe and Stevie are pretty dang close. They're both well-respected, class individuals who are similar in that they led their teams with a quiet authority and never really drew all the attention to themselves. Stevie might be in the top spot, but Joe isn't even a full step behind him.
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#22 Shoreline

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 01:26 PM

Like hell if I'm clicking the link to see what another board thinks. Sakic was a VERY good captain in his own right, but come on, he is not Yzerman or greater as far as captaincy is concerned.

#23 egroen

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:12 PM

Sakic also signed an offer sheet for the Rangers while he was still captain of the Avs.
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#24 mjlegend

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:09 PM

Sakic also signed an offer sheet for the Rangers while he was still captain of the Avs.



A very good point when it comes to leadership. Steve and the Wings had their moments but I don't know that he woudl have ever considered playing for another team while he was captain of the Wings.

In fairness to Sakic, that was a hell of an offer. Wasn't it $15 million first year, two million each next two years?

#25 kook_10

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:31 PM

HFBoards is a bunch of hillbillies. LGW is a house of learned doctors.

Stevie Y all day long.

Edited by kook_10, 23 June 2010 - 04:22 PM.


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#26 Original-Six

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:39 PM

Like hell if I'm clicking the link to see what another board thinks. Sakic was a VERY good captain in his own right, but come on, he is not Yzerman or greater as far as captaincy is concerned.


They are over there arguing how Sakic was a better two way player that Yzerman. I guess that explains why he won more Selkes than Stevie....Oh wait that's right... he never won any.....
But seriously its pretty amazing Stevie went on to have the career he did after having those horrible knee injures.

On August 2, 2002, less than two months after leading the Red Wings to their third Stanley Cup title in six years, Yzerman underwent an osteotomy, or realignment of the knee. The operation was designed to remedy the acute arthritic condition of his right knee, a condition rarely seen in someone so young. Even Yzerman's knee surgeon, Pete Fowler of London, Ontario, was astounded at the hockey player's rebound from surgery. "I don't know of a pro athlete who has had an osteotomy," Fowler told Ryan Pyette, sports reporter for the London Free Press. "I certainly don't know of a pro athlete who has had an osteotomy while they were still a pro athlete. We didn't do it (the surgery) so Steve could return to hockey. We did it so Steve could return to walking without pain and for day-to-day activities."


nuff said

Edited by Original-Six, 23 June 2010 - 03:42 PM.


#27 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:47 PM

Next poll question on their site:

Who was a better coach, Crawford or Bowman?

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#28 T.Low

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:15 PM

Burnaby Joe was awesome. Sakic had an amazing career, putting up great numbers and collecting good hardware. He was cool, he was a leader, he was a warrior, he was talented, and he was a winner.

I always wanted Vancouver to make a big push to somehow sign him and bring him home to build a franchise around. He was a class act.

Stevie Y was all that plus a little bit more. Maybe it's personalitity of the two guys, but Stevie Y wouold always be the leader out of the two in my opinion. If I'm starting a franchise with anyone pick I can take, I'm taking Yzerman over Sakic.


Incidently, Vancouver's Team 1040's Poll Question today:

Who is the best defenceman in last decade?

Nicklas Lidstrom
60%
Scott Niedermayer
40%

Most callers saying that while Nieds was great, it's not even close.

Edited by T.Low, 23 June 2010 - 04:17 PM.


#29 McAwesome

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:29 PM

He's talking about this.


Meh, that was nice, but that wouldn't even make Stevie Y's top 10.

Since so many have been quoting stats to make their arguments, I decided to look at their numbers on a per-season basis rather than their whole career and here's what I found:

Yzerman and Sakic both had 6 100-point seasons, look at the difference

Yzerman: 155, 137, 127, 108, 103, 102
Sakic: 120, 118, 109, 105, 102, 100

As someone else pointed out, only 2 players have ever recorded more points in a single season than Yzerman's 155.

Top 5 goal totals

Yzerman: 65, 62, 58, 51, 45
Sakic: 54, 51, 48, 48, 41

Again, advantage Yzerman.

Basically, what it boils down to is that Yzerman had the higher peak, while Sakic's peak lasted longer. You can attribute Yzerman's "decline" to a combination of injury and coaching style, but for a long time he was the only good player on his team, whereas Sakic had a better supporting cast for longer.

From a purely objective view, the slight advantage goes to Yzerman, but as a Wings fan and more importantly as someone who grew up idolizing him, there is no contest, Yzerman hands down.

Edited by McAwesome, 23 June 2010 - 04:30 PM.

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#30 GMRwings1983

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:15 PM

Sakic never scored 60 goals and 150 points in a a season. He was never the offensive powerhouse Yzerman was in his prime.

The injuries made Stevie a worse player towards the end of his career than what Sakic was, but as far as all time ranking, I have Yzerman ranked higher.
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#31 Marty Barry

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:30 PM

There's a debate??? Uh.

#32 13dangledangle

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:08 PM

Next poll question on their site:

Who was a better coach, Crawford or Bowman?





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#33 eva unit zero

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 02:19 AM

Sakic never scored 60 goals and 150 points in a a season. He was never the offensive powerhouse Yzerman was in his prime.

The injuries made Stevie a worse player towards the end of his career than what Sakic was, but as far as all time ranking, I have Yzerman ranked higher.


It should be noted: Yzerman scored 155 points the season after wrecking his knee in 87-88 (102 points in 64 games) when he was on pace for 63 goals and 127 points
He also scored 127 points (89-90) and 137 points (92-93) later on in his career. He was on pace for 35 goals, 84 assists, and 119 points (3rd in the NHL) in 1993-94 but he missed 26 games due to a serious neck injury. 1994-95 (38 points in 47 games) would represent one of only two seasons between 1996-97 and 1983-84 when Yzerman did not score at least a point per game.

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#34 Stu in Israel

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:22 AM

I'll digress from this debate to tell a story I once read on the Internet. When Gretsky and Howe are together and someone asks who's the greatest NHL player, each of them points to the other, and says, "He is!" Chew on that for awhile.

#35 titanium2

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:24 AM

I'll digress from this debate to tell a story I once read on the Internet. When Gretsky and Howe are together and someone asks who's the greatest NHL player, each of them points to the other, and says, "He is!" Chew on that for awhile.


Yeah but Gordie means it more than Wayne does. :P

#36 egroen

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 07:27 AM

Yeah but Gordie means it more than Wayne does. :P

If Howe played in the 80s he would be a stronger, meaner and more defensively sound Messier - scoring 160+ points regularly to boot.

I have Howe behind only Gretzky, and it's not by a large margin.
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#37 McAwesome

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:39 AM

Yeah but Gordie means it more than Wayne does. :P


How true. I've never met either of them, but from what I've heard this is indicative of their personalities, Gordie being a supremely confident, mean-spirited force on the ice, but humble and approachable off, while Gretzky being the much less forceful on the ice but very aloof and elitist off the ice.

Transitioning back on topic, if you were to put Yzerman and Sakic in the same situation, both would have nothing but sincere praise for one another. In many ways, they are like mirror images of each other, almost eerily so.

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#38 egroen

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:53 AM

Howe was actually very ackward and shy off the ice in the 50s, sounding like a country bumpkin. He almost always deferred to Ted Lindsay during interviews. His personality did not really emerge until the 60s.

Sort of like Datsyuk letting Zetterberg do all his talking until only recently.
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#39 HankthaTank

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 10:49 AM

Its almost blasphemous for me on a personal level to debate this, because both were such monumental characters for their teams and the league, in skill and class. Every time I was asked this in the past I would note that its of no importance who is better when each of them have done so much.

This. I really can't debate much to this. They were both GREAT captains. Stevie is and always will be my idol for all sports and life. The dude just does everything right (meh Tampa, guy had to take a gm spot). Great family man, great leader, greatest player to emulate. I just don't feel I can add anything to this "debate" with Sakic aside from knowing how just damn talented of a player he was. Long and short both great lol. LGW frequenter, sooo gotta go with Stevie obviously.

Edited by HankthaTank, 25 June 2010 - 10:50 AM.

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#40 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 11:14 AM

HFBoards is a bunch of hillbillies. LGW is a house of learned doctors.

Stevie Y all day long.

hey i take offense to that comment thank you very much..hahahaha
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