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Sounds like the wings are looking for size


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#21 newfy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:03 PM

Nothing is 100% sure in anything. Like I said, if you're only going to go after "zero risk" guys you can forget about being a winning franchise in the future. I'd say the chance of him becoming a first liner is pretty much the same as McIlrath becoming a top4 d-man.

Yeah those high risk picks always make you better in the long run and mean you won't have a winning team in the future if you don't take them :blink:

That high risk pick of Zherdev at #4 who had all the talent in the world was a way better pick then say Mike Richards at 24 or Getzlaf at 19. That pick looks stupid now, and at least Zherdev is still in the league. If we have a guy with all the talent in the world playing in the KHL it doesn't exactly help the wings win games. Yeah all those goals Hudler got for Dynamo Moscow really helped our playoff run last year too.

High risk picks aren't smart in the first round when you can get proven top 6 players or top 4 defenseman with 0 risk at all. As for you saying the wings drafting Europeans have worked out in the past, Kindl isn't exactly looking amazing right now. Ad pretty much all the rest (except Kronwall I think) were not taken in the 1st round.

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#22 Shaman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:15 PM

Yeah those high risk picks always make you better in the long run and mean you won't have a winning team in the future if you don't take them :blink:

That high risk pick of Zherdev at #4 who had all the talent in the world was a way better pick then say Mike Richards at 24 or Getzlaf at 19. That pick looks stupid now, and at least Zherdev is still in the league. If we have a guy with all the talent in the world playing in the KHL it doesn't exactly help the wings win games. Yeah all those goals Hudler got for Dynamo Moscow really helped our playoff run last year too.

High risk picks aren't smart in the first round when you can get proven top 6 players or top 4 defenseman with 0 risk at all. As for you saying the wings drafting Europeans have worked out in the past, Kindl isn't exactly looking amazing right now. Ad pretty much all the rest (except Kronwall I think) were not taken in the 1st round.

The wings aren't hurting for 4-6 spot forwards or 3/4 Dmen, we need someone who will step up when Dats and Z start to fade. We don't have a great player in the system that we can all look to and say 'this is our blue chip forward prospect' so I still believe thats what the wings need to look for, even if there is a chance they get burned. You don't win cups without some risk.
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#23 Finnish Wing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:16 PM

Yeah those high risk picks always make you better in the long run and mean you won't have a winning team in the future if you don't take them :blink:

That high risk pick of Zherdev at #4 who had all the talent in the world was a way better pick then say Mike Richards at 24 or Getzlaf at 19. That pick looks stupid now, and at least Zherdev is still in the league. If we have a guy with all the talent in the world playing in the KHL it doesn't exactly help the wings win games. Yeah all those goals Hudler got for Dynamo Moscow really helped our playoff run last year too.

High risk picks aren't smart in the first round when you can get proven top 6 players or top 4 defenseman with 0 risk at all. As for you saying the wings drafting Europeans have worked out in the past, Kindl isn't exactly looking amazing right now. Ad pretty much all the rest (except Kronwall I think) were not taken in the 1st round.

I don't know what's the high risk here. It's pretty small risk considering the reward.

Also, I didn't speak about us drafting Euros in the 1st round. I just said this organization has had success with European players. I would say the chance of for example Kabanov or Tarasenko working out with us is better than in many other organizations.

edit: spelling

Edited by Finnish Wing, 24 June 2010 - 04:30 PM.

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#24 Buppy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:23 PM

The wings aren't hurting for 4-6 spot forwards or 3/4 Dmen, we need someone who will step up when Dats and Z start to fade. We don't have a great player in the system that we can all look to and say 'this is our blue chip forward prospect' so I still believe thats what the wings need to look for, even if there is a chance they get burned. You don't win cups without some risk.


We don't have anyone that looks capable of filling the void left by Nick and Rafi either, and both of them are older than Pav and Hank.

#25 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:02 PM

The other factor, in my opinion at least, is that North American players are over-scouted compared to most European players (although the 1st round Euro prospects are usually very heavily scouted).

As far as the Russian-factor goes I can see why teams are hesitant to draft them in the top 15, but if you have a top 3 talent like Kabanov who slips you should take him if you're a team like Detroit who can afford to let the kid mature.
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#26 Shaman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:29 PM

We don't have anyone that looks capable of filling the void left by Nick and Rafi either, and both of them are older than Pav and Hank.

Smith could fill Rafi, as for Nick.. thats just not fair... we can draft D men #1 overall for years in a row and still never fill those skates.
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#27 Finnish Wing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:38 PM

Smith could fill Rafi, as for Nick.. thats just not fair... we can draft D men #1 overall for years in a row and still never fill those skates.

Nah, that's just not the way to do it. You should always draft the best player available, while trying not to sacrifice talent. Your needs may affect a little on the choice, but only a little.

For example if your drafting top5 and there are two almost equally good players who are both ready to jump to the NHL in the near future. The other is defender and the other is forward. Now, that's a situation when you should definitely choose based on the position you need.

Our situation is drafting 21st, meaning most likely it will take about 3 years anyway before the guy we draft jumps to the big team. Because of that I just don't think you should consider the position too much. Just draft the best player with the best talent. Maybe try to focus on skaters however.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 24 June 2010 - 05:39 PM.

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#28 Buppy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:57 PM

Smith could fill Rafi, as for Nick.. thats just not fair... we can draft D men #1 overall for years in a row and still never fill those skates.


Obviously I wouldn't expect anyone to actually replace Nick, which is why I would tend to favor getting a lot of good D prospects. It's going to take multiple players to ease that transition.

Smith, Kindl, and Ericsson might be ok, but we don't have much beyond them. A physically dominant defenseman could certainly be a big help in maintaining a solid core. Stuart and Kronwall aren't any younger than Pav and Hank either.

We don't really have any next generation anything at the moment. I'd probably go with a forward this year, since I think the ones likely available are a bit better than the defensemen, and the 2nd round defensemen don't look to be as much of a drop-off as the 2nd round forwards.

Trading down and picking up and extra 2nd rounder (especially an early one) could be a great move. If we could come out of the first two rounds with, for instance, Brock Nelson, Alexander Petrovic, and Danny Biega I'd be pretty happy.

#29 Marty Barry

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:01 PM

Draft Shaq. Cleveland is done with him. He has size. He has risk. He's a cop.

#30 titanium2

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:01 PM

When exactly did the Wings decide once and for all prioritize skill over size and strength?

I remember one time when I glanced at their draft history it seemed like Hakan couldn't land a solid pick to save his life. Christofer Lofberg is a name I remember off the top of my head. Haha, thank goodness for Tatar and Nyquist these days.

#31 newfy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:38 PM

I don't know what's the high risk here. It's pretty small risk considering the reward.

Also, I didn't speak about us drafting Euros in the 1st round. I just said this organization has had success with European players. I would say the chance of for example Kabanov or Tarasenko working out with us is better than in many other organizations.

edit: spelling

Why is it a better chance with us? They would be stuck in the AHL longer which would probably make them wanna head home and play for more money. They would also get less ice time for the first bit which would make them wanna head home too.

To top it all off, we have proof that guys from our team will bolt to Russia because Hudler just did it. I don't see why there is a better chance of them working out here, in fact given the facts I think there is less chance.

We only have Datyuk as well so not exactly a strong Russian influence on the team to convince them to stay.

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#32 dat's sick

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:56 PM

Size isn't very important in today's NHL. Go with speed and skill, please.

#33 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:05 PM

Smith, Kindl, and Ericsson might be ok, but we don't have much beyond them. A physically dominant defenseman could certainly be a big help in maintaining a solid core. Stuart and Kronwall aren't any younger than Pav and Hank either.


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-Logan Pyett (Nill is high on him)
-Adam Almqvist (had another big year in Sweden-- looks like another Rafalski with better hockey sense)
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#34 uk_redwing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:14 PM

-Brian Lashoff
-Logan Pyett (Nill is high on him)
-Adam Almqvist (had another big year in Sweden-- looks like another Rafalski with better hockey sense)


:thumbup:

I wish people would at least watch a Grand Rapids game once in a while <_< Im personally a big fan of Pyett. He managed to be conistantly good as opposed to Kindl who continued to be good once game and horrific the next.

Also



:ph34r:

Anyway, when they say they're looking for size I assume they mean in the forwards department. Out of the guys they had contracted last season, the only one that could be described as big or tough was Jamie Tardif and even he's only 6'1, 215lbs/may not have his contract renewed (which is a travesty!).

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#35 Buppy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:55 PM

-Brian Lashoff
-Logan Pyett (Nill is high on him)
-Adam Almqvist (had another big year in Sweden-- looks like another Rafalski with better hockey sense)


You forgot Nicastro. But like I said, we don't have much. I don't think a bunch of late round picks or undrafted free agents, all of whom may or may not ever make it to the NHL really count as solid defensive prospects.

The youngest of our top 4 defensemen is going to be 30 this season, and we don't know if even our 'best' prospect can play in the NHL, much less become a top pair level player. If anyone thinks our prospect depth on defense is anywhere near good enough, you're insane.

Unfortunately, our forward prospects aren't very good either. But since our forwards are a bit younger than our defensemen, and defensemen usually take longer to develop, I'd say defense is a more pressing need. Though as I said, this particular year there seems to be a bigger drop-off from the 1st to 2nd round forwards, so I'd probably take a forward first, depends on who's available.

20 years of excellence catches up eventually, and we're at the point where we need to get really lucky or really creative to have any chance of maintaining our current standards. FA and trades will certainly be needed, but there's only so much we can do there. We need some good prospects on cheap contracts.

#36 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:36 PM



Crabb's now in the Hawks org. :D

You forgot Nicastro. But like I said, we don't have much. I don't think a bunch of late round picks or undrafted free agents, all of whom may or may not ever make it to the NHL really count as solid defensive prospects.

The youngest of our top 4 defensemen is going to be 30 this season, and we don't know if even our 'best' prospect can play in the NHL, much less become a top pair level player. If anyone thinks our prospect depth on defense is anywhere near good enough, you're insane.

Unfortunately, our forward prospects aren't very good either. But since our forwards are a bit younger than our defensemen, and defensemen usually take longer to develop, I'd say defense is a more pressing need. Though as I said, this particular year there seems to be a bigger drop-off from the 1st to 2nd round forwards, so I'd probably take a forward first, depends on who's available.

20 years of excellence catches up eventually, and we're at the point where we need to get really lucky or really creative to have any chance of maintaining our current standards. FA and trades will certainly be needed, but there's only so much we can do there. We need some good prospects on cheap contracts.


I definitely didn't forget him-- he hasn't proven much yet. I was just listing the best guys that weren't mentioned :)
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#37 jollymania

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:48 PM

Im pretty sure the people against McIlraith know absolutely nothing about him. Would you people really not like another wings player doing stuff like this:


"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#38 mackel

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:54 PM

If we're going to move up, I think they should go for a big jump to the top 5... and the player I'd take is Brandon Gormley. He has been described as having a Lidstrom like skill set. Imagine a kid with all the tools learning from the master craftsman.

Of course it won't happen... and if it did we'd likely have to give up the 1st and 2nd rounders we have plus a decent prospect like a Tatar or Kindl.

Edited by mackel, 24 June 2010 - 11:54 PM.


#39 Bannedforlife

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 12:24 AM

If we're going to move up, I think they should go for a big jump to the top 5... and the player I'd take is Brandon Gormley. He has been described as having a Lidstrom like skill set. Imagine a kid with all the tools learning from the master craftsman.

Of course it won't happen... and if it did we'd likely have to give up the 1st and 2nd rounders we have plus a decent prospect like a Tatar or Kindl.

I thought i read somewhere that Columbus was open to trading their number 4 pick. I wonder what it would take...

#40 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:26 AM

I bet that's exactly what every youngster wants to hear, having to wat at least 3 years and maybe 5. :rolleyes:

With #21 either Mark Pysyk or Vladimir Tarasenko please!

Edited by Aussie_Wing, 25 June 2010 - 03:35 AM.

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