Versteeg a Leaf

[Drake_Marcus 890]

K next question for Mr. Blackhawk. How would the Hawks look if they lost also lost Ladd, Huet, and Bolland/Sharp? Here's what I get with the $4 mil in overage (since you cant back up the $1.3)

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES

FORWARDS

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)

Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Jack Skille ($1.275m)

Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)

Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)

* Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($2.643m)

Brian Connelly ($0.875m) / Simon Danis-Pepin ($0.850m)

Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)

GOALTENDERS

* Antti Niemi ($2.826m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(no bonus cushion is used in these calculations)

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $55.4m; PAYROLL: $57.795m; CAP ROOM: $-2.395m

I'm lazy and just put 2's in front of Hjalmarsson's and Niemi's cap hits. I'm guessing they'll be signed somewhere in that range. But, this still leaves them with $2.4 mil to cut.

Great post.

Annnd cue the hawk troll's denial.

[dawings1905 2]

And exactly what does that havew to do with the conversation?

And a picture from 2 seasons ago with a player that isn't even on our team anymore? Talk about living in the past. Not to mention the Red Wings finished that season exactly the same as the Blackhawks: without a cup.

See, this is a perfectly reasonable post. Why can't more people accept the fact that the Hawks will still be good? That's what this all stems from and is the only reason that I'm here. I keep seeing Red Wings fans claim we are going to crash hard this season, and there's really nothing to suggest that.

Also, I'll point out that the Hawks had some significant injuries last season. Hossa, Bolland, and Campbell all missed significant time.

So the reason you are on A WINGS forum is because Wings fans have opinions that differ from yours (remember they are opinions and neither can be proven either way right now), and that agitates you to a point that you will endlessly make attempts to argue who's OPINION is FACTUALLY correct? Got it, makes sense to me. Seriously how old are you? Three? And how dumb do you have to be to go to another teams site and try to change the opinions of a large portion of their fanbase? BTW, If the Wings were losing say..... Holmstrom, Flip, Lilja, and Big E, prior to FA even beginning (and replacing them with prospects whom had never really done much in the league) do you really think the Wings would contend for the cup? I don't, and I don't think the Hawks will win the cup with the losses they have already. What you probably don't realize due to your 40 + years of obscurity is that those players you lost are huge depth players that played a very significant role in your cup run. I ask you this......How many goals to Hoss score for you in the playoffs? Then tell me how many Buff and Versteeg scored? Get it yet?

[Gordon Bombay 2]

K next question for Mr. Blackhawk. How would the Hawks look if they lost also lost Ladd, Huet, and Bolland/Sharp? Here's what I get with the $4 mil in overage (since you cant back up the $1.3)

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES

FORWARDS

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)

Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Jack Skille ($1.275m)

Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)

Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)

* Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($2.643m)

Brian Connelly ($0.875m) / Simon Danis-Pepin ($0.850m)

Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)

GOALTENDERS

* Antti Niemi ($2.826m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(no bonus cushion is used in these calculations)

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $55.4m; PAYROLL: $57.795m; CAP ROOM: $-2.395m

I'm lazy and just put 2's in front of Hjalmarsson's and Niemi's cap hits. I'm guessing they'll be signed somewhere in that range. But, this still leaves them with $2.4 mil to cut.

You say that's without Sharp or Bolland, but you have both on that roster.

[Guest DatsyukianDeke13]

So the reason you are on A WINGS forum is because Wings fans have opinions that differ from yours (remember they are opinions and neither can be proven either way right now), and that agitates you to a point that you will endlessly make attempts to argue who's OPINION is FACTUALLY correct? Got it, makes sense to me. Seriously how old are you? Three? And how dumb do you have to be to go to another teams site and try to change the opinions of a large portion of their fanbase? BTW, If the Wings were losing say..... Holmstrom, Flip, Lilja, and Big E, prior to FA even beginning (and replacing them with prospects whom had never really done much in the league) do you really think the Wings would contend for the cup? I don't, and I don't think the Hawks will win the cup with the losses they have already. What you probably don't realize due to your 40 + years of obscurity is that those players you lost are huge depth players that played a very significant role in your cup run. I ask you this......How many goals to Hoss score for you in the playoffs? Then tell me how many Buff and Versteeg scored? Get it yet?

Boom, Roasted.

[hockey23 79]

You say that's without Sharp or Bolland, but you have both on that roster.

No, I was making the point that they would be $2.4 mil over and therefore would have to trade Bolland/Sharp.

[Guest Heaten]

From what I'm reading Toronto made out better in this trade. I'm reading that Stalberg is a decent player and has top 6 potential, but Sweatt has more upside. Stalberg, btw is -13 in only 40 games.

The other two prospect Chicago got don't seem to be highly touted by the TO fans.

Chicago continues to downgrade. Oh, and now there's rumors that Ladd may be gone.

[Gordon Bombay 2]

I think the 1.3 bonus figure he was getting from this- (from Adam Jahns of the Sun-Times)

There is only one bonus that will be reflective against the cap: Toews' 1.3 million for the Conn Smythe. Bowman said that's it.

Hardly definitive, but SH444 came from the same Chicago board as me so I'm pretty sure that's what he's citing. Who knows if it's true.

If it is though, they could do this (using the same players and figures as above)

2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)

Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)

Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)

* Jack Skille ($1.275m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)

* Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($2.643m)

Brian Connelly ($0.875m) / Simon Danis-Pepin ($0.850m)

Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)

GOALTENDERS

* Antti Niemi ($2.826m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)

ROSTER: 22; CAP:$58.1m; PAYROLL: $57.795m; CAP ROOM: $1.478m BONUSES: $1.173m

This is under and only missing Ladd, and that's still a very good roster.

From what I'm reading Toronto made out better in this trade. I'm reading that Stalberg is a decent player and has top 6 potential, but Sweatt has more upside. Stalberg, btw is -13 in only 40 games.

The other two prospect Chicago got don't seem to be highly touted by the TO fans.

Chicago continues to downgrade. Oh, and now there's rumors that Ladd may be gone.

But wasn't this expected? If the Blackhawks only end up losing Byfuglien/Madden/Sopel/Versteeg/Ladd, I'll be pretty happy. That's not nearly as bad as it looked like it might end up being.I was afraid we'd drop into the 6-8 seed range, but that would still be a team competeting for the division and a top seed.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Gordon Bombay

[Skeptikal 1]

TSNBobMcKenzie

NHL salary cap is $59.4M but CHI's real cap # is $55.2M because of performance bonus overages. Looks like that $4M estimate was bang on.

[hockey23 79]

I think the 1.3 bonus figure he was getting from this- (from Adam Jahns of the Sun-Times)

Hardly definitive, but SH444 came from the same Chicago board as me so I'm pretty sure that's what he's citing. Who knows if it's true.

If it is though, they could do this (using the same players and figures as above)

2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)

Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)

Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)

* Jack Skille ($1.275m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)

* Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($2.643m)

Brian Connelly ($0.875m) / Simon Danis-Pepin ($0.850m)

Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)

GOALTENDERS

* Antti Niemi ($2.826m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)

ROSTER: 22; CAP:$58.1m; PAYROLL: $57.795m; CAP ROOM: $1.478m BONUSES: $1.173m

This is under and only missing Ladd, and that's still a very good roster.

I agree it's a pretty good roster, but Mirtle just tweeted that the Hawks would not give details on the bonus overages so I wonder how accurate that is. If it's only $1.3 they're in decent shape, but $4 mil could mean Sharp/Bolland.

Edit: $4.2 mil in overages. Now they might be in trouble.

Edited July 1, 2010 by hockey23

[Gordon Bombay 2]

TSNBobMcKenzie

We already know what people are reporting. The question is whether or not Bowman knows more than the rest of us. All that guy is reporting is the initial figures.

We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully the other report is right.

[titanium2 867]

So the reason you are on A WINGS forum is because Wings fans have opinions that differ from yours (remember they are opinions and neither can be proven either way right now), and that agitates you to a point that you will endlessly make attempts to argue who's OPINION is FACTUALLY correct? Got it, makes sense to me. Seriously how old are you? Three? And how dumb do you have to be to go to another teams site and try to change the opinions of a large portion of their fanbase? BTW, If the Wings were losing say..... Holmstrom, Flip, Lilja, and Big E, prior to FA even beginning (and replacing them with prospects whom had never really done much in the league) do you really think the Wings would contend for the cup? I don't, and I don't think the Hawks will win the cup with the losses they have already. What you probably don't realize due to your 40 + years of obscurity is that those players you lost are huge depth players that played a very significant role in your cup run. I ask you this......How many goals to Hoss score for you in the playoffs? Then tell me how many Buff and Versteeg scored? Get it yet?

Damn ***** you got jacked *****.

[Gordon Bombay 2]

I agree it's a pretty good roster, but Mirtle just tweeted that the Hawks would not give details on the bonus overages so I wonder how accurate that is. If it's only $1.3 they're in decent shape, but $4 mil could mean Sharp/Bolland.

Edit: $4.2 mil in overages. Now they might be in trouble.

Take away Bolland and it's still pretty good. Probably fighting for home-ice in the first round.

[Guest Heaten]

But wasn't this expected? If the Blackhawks only end up losing Byfuglien/Madden/Sopel/Versteeg/Ladd/*Eager/Fraser, I'll be pretty happy. That's not nearly as bad as it looked like it might end up being.I was afraid we'd drop into the 6-8 seed range, but that would still be a team competeting for the division and a top seed.

*Fixed

Sounds like Hawks are right up against the cap with only 13 players and not able to afford any of their RFA until they move another $4.5 million (for Hjmerson(sp) and Niemi).

[titanium2 867]

We all know about the Stanley Cup Hangover. Is there such a thing as a Salary Cap hangover? Everyone is just so worn out from having to get under the salary cap.

If the league were so inclined, could it just decide to dick the Hawks over and not help them out in any trades, causing them to be over the cap to start the season and forfeit every game in which they are over the cap?

[Manoir 70]

I think it's a great trade for the Hawks. The Leafs gave up on Stalberg too early.

[Gordon Bombay 2]

So the reason you are on A WINGS forum is because Wings fans have opinions that differ from yours (remember they are opinions and neither can be proven either way right now), and that agitates you to a point that you will endlessly make attempts to argue who's OPINION is FACTUALLY correct? Got it, makes sense to me. Seriously how old are you? Three? And how dumb do you have to be to go to another teams site and try to change the opinions of a large portion of their fanbase? BTW, If the Wings were losing say..... Holmstrom, Flip, Lilja, and Big E, prior to FA even beginning (and replacing them with prospects whom had never really done much in the league) do you really think the Wings would contend for the cup? I don't, and I don't think the Hawks will win the cup with the losses they have already. What you probably don't realize due to your 40 + years of obscurity is that those players you lost are huge depth players that played a very significant role in your cup run. I ask you this......How many goals to Hoss score for you in the playoffs? Then tell me how many Buff and Versteeg scored? Get it yet?

My hopes for next season are just that they're competitive and give me a postseason appearance and something to root for. I don't really expect them to win the Cup. That might sound like loser talk (and maybe it is), but having never experienced a championship from one of my teams, the one title means a whole lot, even if it does mean we might not win one anytime soon.

If we're just a 95-100 point team with some exciting young players over the next couple years, I'll be okay with that. It was worth it to me, and I think most Blackhawks fans would feel the same way. There will be a grace period with us.

It probably is different in Detroit since you guys are used to winning Cups, but 1 is enough for now in Chicago. Just put a competitive product on the field and I can deal with it. I'm not really expecting more anyways.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Gordon Bombay

[titanium2 867]

I think it's a great trade for the Hawks. The Leafs gave up on Stalberg too early.

I'm sure Brian Burke is just inconsolable after trading away Stalberg. We all know how much he loves Euros.

[Gordon Bombay 2]

*Fixed

Sounds like Hawks are right up against the cap with only 13 players and not able to afford any of their RFA until they move another $4.5 million (for Hjmerson(sp) and Niemi).

Eager is easily replaced (I know, he scored a GWG in game 2), and Fraser isn't good at hockey. It wasn't an accident that I left them out. Fraser only played 3 games in the postseason.

In fact, Reasoner is better than Fraser, so we upgraded there. So go ahead and include that.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Gordon Bombay

[Drake_Marcus 890]

We already know what people are reporting. The question is whether or not Bowman knows more than the rest of us. All that guy is reporting is the initial figures.

We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully the other report is right.

Toews and Kane had a reported $5,000,000 in combined bonus targets. Mirtle is reporting that they hit all of those bonus targets.

Stan Bowman's (apparent) insistence that only $1,300,000 will count against the cap is complete bulls***. He stated that this was only for the Conn but that supposes that neither Kane nor Toews had even a penny more in performance bonuses in their contracts-- which is absurd given how rookie contracts for lottery pick players are structured.

The final nail in that story's coffin should be this-- people claim that Bowman said only $1,300,000 will count against the cap. It has been verified that 1.3 mil is the amount of the Conn bonus alone. However, the Hawks had approximately $300,000 in cap room left at the end of the season (apparently). The rules for cap overages state that only the overage carries over. Thus it's impossible to have the entire 1.3 mil count against this year's cap according to the story constructed by hopeful fans.

Frankly this whole 1.3 mil thing smacks of desperate fans clinging to the only number they know for sure while the rest of the hockey reporting world has moved on. Bob McKenzie, for the record, is rarely ill informed. He's quoting the 4.19 million dollar cap hit for bonuses right now and I'll take his word over conjecture from biased fans.

My hopes for next season are just that they're competitive and give me a postseason appearance and something to root for. I don't really expect them to win the Cup. That might sound like loser talk (and maybe it is), but having never experienced a championship from one of my teams, the one title means a whole lot, even if it does mean we might not win one anytime soon.

If we're just a 95-100 point team with some exciting young players over the next couple years, I'll be okay with that. It was worth it to me, and I think most Blackhawks fans would feel the same way. There will be a grace period with us.

It probably is different in Detroit since you guys are used to winning Cups, but 1 is enough for now in Chicago. Just put a competitive product on the field and I can deal with it. I'm not really expecting more anyways.

This is completely reasonable and I doubt you'll be disappointed. The other side of the coin is the trolls we get here from some of the Hawks forums that think the result of these moves will be minor (if anything).

Edited July 1, 2010 by Drake_Marcus

[Guest Heaten]

I'm sure Brian Burke is just inconsolable after trading away Stalberg. We all know how much he loves Euros.

Stalberg is older than Versteeg and he's still considered a prospect.

[Gordon Bombay 2]

Toews and Kane had a reported $5,000,000 in combined bonus targets. Mirtle is reporting that they hit all of those bonus targets.

Stan Bowman's (apparent) insistence that only $1,300,000 will count against the cap is complete bulls***. He stated that this was only for the Conn but that supposes that neither Kane nor Toews had even a penny more in performance bonuses in their contracts-- which is absurd given how rookie contracts for lottery pick players are structured.

The final nail in that story's coffin should be this-- people claim that Bowman said only $1,300,000 will count against the cap. It has been verified that 1.3 mil is the amount of the Conn bonus alone. However, the Hawks had approximately $300,000 in cap room left at the end of the season (apparently). The rules for cap overages state that only the overage carries over. Thus it's impossible to have the entire 1.3 mil count against this year's cap according to the story constructed by hopeful fans.

Frankly this whole 1.3 mil thing smacks of desperate fans clinging to the only number they know for sure while the rest of the hockey reporting world has moved on. Bob McKenzie, for the record, is rarely ill informed. He's quoting the 4.19 million dollar cap hit for bonuses right now and I'll take his word over conjecture from biased fans.

Fair enough, no need to get mad.

So maybe we'll lose Ladd and Bolland still or something like that. Maybe not a team that can win the Cup, but we'll still be good and competitive next season and that's all I'm really looking for.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Gordon Bombay

[HockeyTownHouligan 57]

No, I used yahoo. Sorry that I don't know his career save percentage by heart. How embarassing. All I knew that it was bad, and it was.

And I know his playoff stats are better, which was the whole point of my argument. So, thanks. I appreciate it.

Fish in a barrel. Stick a fork in him he's done!!!

[Guest Heaten]

Eager is easily replaced (I know, he scored a GWG in game 2), and Fraser isn't good at hockey. It wasn't an accident that I left them out. Fraser only played 3 games in the postseason.

In fact, Reasoner is better than Fraser, so we upgraded there. So go ahead and include that.

But is he better than Byfugilian(sp)? Because he and Sopel were the big ticket for Reasoner.

And Eager was pretty physical and showed some flair and nasty-ness in the playoffs. Don't discredit his contribution, players like that are needed to go deep.

[Gordon Bombay 2]

But is he better than Byfugilian(sp)? Because he and Sopel were the big ticket for Reasoner.

Well no, but you already counted the loss of Byfuglien. You can't count it again.

And yeah, I mean obviously we're downgrading big time. I'm not trying to say in any way that these trades make us better. We're obviously getting worse and there's only one reason for these trades.

[Guest DatsyukianDeke13]

IMO, Chicago should have just traded Hossa. They could have gotten good players in return (instead of good PROSPECTS and career 3rd and 4th liners). I mean seriously, they made it to the WCF without Hossa. Now, they pay him a ton of money and he has another sub par playoff performance? Kane, Keith, and Toews could have kept this team afloat with a strong core, but now, they are losing this all because they had to go for the overkill signing (hossa).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another tweet from McKenzie earlier in the day (just incase you didn't see it)

"Final tweets for night: Sounds like Ladd on move out of CHI. If he goes to arb, too expensive for CHI. One NHL GM predicts ATL gets him. "

If true, that means that Chicago will have lost:

-Byfuglien

-Versteeg

-Ladd

-Sopel

-Eager

-Fraser

(am I missing somebody?)

Also, there have been reports that it is very unlikely Madden and Burish will return because they will both seek more playing time and money. On top of that, they have to give Niemi and Hjalmarsson big raises. In what realm do Hawks fans think they won't lose much?

Edited July 1, 2010 by DatsyukianDeke13