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Versteeg a Leaf


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#141 Manoir

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:45 AM

I think it's a great trade for the Hawks. The Leafs gave up on Stalberg too early.

#142 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:46 AM

So the reason you are on A WINGS forum is because Wings fans have opinions that differ from yours (remember they are opinions and neither can be proven either way right now), and that agitates you to a point that you will endlessly make attempts to argue who's OPINION is FACTUALLY correct? Got it, makes sense to me. Seriously how old are you? Three? And how dumb do you have to be to go to another teams site and try to change the opinions of a large portion of their fanbase? BTW, If the Wings were losing say..... Holmstrom, Flip, Lilja, and Big E, prior to FA even beginning (and replacing them with prospects whom had never really done much in the league) do you really think the Wings would contend for the cup? I don't, and I don't think the Hawks will win the cup with the losses they have already. What you probably don't realize due to your 40 + years of obscurity is that those players you lost are huge depth players that played a very significant role in your cup run. I ask you this......How many goals to Hoss score for you in the playoffs? Then tell me how many Buff and Versteeg scored? Get it yet?


My hopes for next season are just that they're competitive and give me a postseason appearance and something to root for. I don't really expect them to win the Cup. That might sound like loser talk (and maybe it is), but having never experienced a championship from one of my teams, the one title means a whole lot, even if it does mean we might not win one anytime soon.

If we're just a 95-100 point team with some exciting young players over the next couple years, I'll be okay with that. It was worth it to me, and I think most Blackhawks fans would feel the same way. There will be a grace period with us.

It probably is different in Detroit since you guys are used to winning Cups, but 1 is enough for now in Chicago. Just put a competitive product on the field and I can deal with it. I'm not really expecting more anyways.

Edited by Gordon Bombay, 01 July 2010 - 12:48 AM.


#143 titanium2

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:47 AM

I think it's a great trade for the Hawks. The Leafs gave up on Stalberg too early.


I'm sure Brian Burke is just inconsolable after trading away Stalberg. We all know how much he loves Euros.

#144 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:49 AM

*Fixed

Sounds like Hawks are right up against the cap with only 13 players and not able to afford any of their RFA until they move another $4.5 million (for Hjmerson(sp) and Niemi).


Eager is easily replaced (I know, he scored a GWG in game 2), and Fraser isn't good at hockey. It wasn't an accident that I left them out. Fraser only played 3 games in the postseason.

In fact, Reasoner is better than Fraser, so we upgraded there. So go ahead and include that.

Edited by Gordon Bombay, 01 July 2010 - 12:51 AM.


#145 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:53 AM

We already know what people are reporting. The question is whether or not Bowman knows more than the rest of us. All that guy is reporting is the initial figures.

We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully the other report is right.


Toews and Kane had a reported $5,000,000 in combined bonus targets. Mirtle is reporting that they hit all of those bonus targets.

Stan Bowman's (apparent) insistence that only $1,300,000 will count against the cap is complete bulls***. He stated that this was only for the Conn but that supposes that neither Kane nor Toews had even a penny more in performance bonuses in their contracts-- which is absurd given how rookie contracts for lottery pick players are structured.

The final nail in that story's coffin should be this-- people claim that Bowman said only $1,300,000 will count against the cap. It has been verified that 1.3 mil is the amount of the Conn bonus alone. However, the Hawks had approximately $300,000 in cap room left at the end of the season (apparently). The rules for cap overages state that only the overage carries over. Thus it's impossible to have the entire 1.3 mil count against this year's cap according to the story constructed by hopeful fans.

Frankly this whole 1.3 mil thing smacks of desperate fans clinging to the only number they know for sure while the rest of the hockey reporting world has moved on. Bob McKenzie, for the record, is rarely ill informed. He's quoting the 4.19 million dollar cap hit for bonuses right now and I'll take his word over conjecture from biased fans.

My hopes for next season are just that they're competitive and give me a postseason appearance and something to root for. I don't really expect them to win the Cup. That might sound like loser talk (and maybe it is), but having never experienced a championship from one of my teams, the one title means a whole lot, even if it does mean we might not win one anytime soon.

If we're just a 95-100 point team with some exciting young players over the next couple years, I'll be okay with that. It was worth it to me, and I think most Blackhawks fans would feel the same way. There will be a grace period with us.

It probably is different in Detroit since you guys are used to winning Cups, but 1 is enough for now in Chicago. Just put a competitive product on the field and I can deal with it. I'm not really expecting more anyways.


This is completely reasonable and I doubt you'll be disappointed. The other side of the coin is the trolls we get here from some of the Hawks forums that think the result of these moves will be minor (if anything).

Edited by Drake_Marcus, 01 July 2010 - 12:53 AM.

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#146 Heaten

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:54 AM

I'm sure Brian Burke is just inconsolable after trading away Stalberg. We all know how much he loves Euros.


Stalberg is older than Versteeg and he's still considered a prospect.

#147 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:55 AM

Toews and Kane had a reported $5,000,000 in combined bonus targets. Mirtle is reporting that they hit all of those bonus targets.

Stan Bowman's (apparent) insistence that only $1,300,000 will count against the cap is complete bulls***. He stated that this was only for the Conn but that supposes that neither Kane nor Toews had even a penny more in performance bonuses in their contracts-- which is absurd given how rookie contracts for lottery pick players are structured.

The final nail in that story's coffin should be this-- people claim that Bowman said only $1,300,000 will count against the cap. It has been verified that 1.3 mil is the amount of the Conn bonus alone. However, the Hawks had approximately $300,000 in cap room left at the end of the season (apparently). The rules for cap overages state that only the overage carries over. Thus it's impossible to have the entire 1.3 mil count against this year's cap according to the story constructed by hopeful fans.

Frankly this whole 1.3 mil thing smacks of desperate fans clinging to the only number they know for sure while the rest of the hockey reporting world has moved on. Bob McKenzie, for the record, is rarely ill informed. He's quoting the 4.19 million dollar cap hit for bonuses right now and I'll take his word over conjecture from biased fans.



Fair enough, no need to get mad.

So maybe we'll lose Ladd and Bolland still or something like that. Maybe not a team that can win the Cup, but we'll still be good and competitive next season and that's all I'm really looking for.

Edited by Gordon Bombay, 01 July 2010 - 12:55 AM.


#148 HockeyTownHouligan

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:55 AM

No, I used yahoo. Sorry that I don't know his career save percentage by heart. How embarassing. All I knew that it was bad, and it was.

And I know his playoff stats are better, which was the whole point of my argument. So, thanks. I appreciate it.

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#149 Heaten

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:02 AM

Eager is easily replaced (I know, he scored a GWG in game 2), and Fraser isn't good at hockey. It wasn't an accident that I left them out. Fraser only played 3 games in the postseason.

In fact, Reasoner is better than Fraser, so we upgraded there. So go ahead and include that.


But is he better than Byfugilian(sp)? Because he and Sopel were the big ticket for Reasoner.

And Eager was pretty physical and showed some flair and nasty-ness in the playoffs. Don't discredit his contribution, players like that are needed to go deep.

#150 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:10 AM

But is he better than Byfugilian(sp)? Because he and Sopel were the big ticket for Reasoner.


Well no, but you already counted the loss of Byfuglien. You can't count it again.

And yeah, I mean obviously we're downgrading big time. I'm not trying to say in any way that these trades make us better. We're obviously getting worse and there's only one reason for these trades.

#151 DatsyukianDeke13

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:28 AM

IMO, Chicago should have just traded Hossa. They could have gotten good players in return (instead of good PROSPECTS and career 3rd and 4th liners). I mean seriously, they made it to the WCF without Hossa. Now, they pay him a ton of money and he has another sub par playoff performance? Kane, Keith, and Toews could have kept this team afloat with a strong core, but now, they are losing this all because they had to go for the overkill signing (hossa).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another tweet from McKenzie earlier in the day (just incase you didn't see it)

"Final tweets for night: Sounds like Ladd on move out of CHI. If he goes to arb, too expensive for CHI. One NHL GM predicts ATL gets him. "

If true, that means that Chicago will have lost:
-Byfuglien
-Versteeg
-Ladd
-Sopel
-Eager
-Fraser

(am I missing somebody?)

Also, there have been reports that it is very unlikely Madden and Burish will return because they will both seek more playing time and money. On top of that, they have to give Niemi and Hjalmarsson big raises. In what realm do Hawks fans think they won't lose much?

Edited by DatsyukianDeke13, 01 July 2010 - 01:36 AM.

Mixed feelings about this
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#152 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:40 AM

Fair enough, no need to get mad.

So maybe we'll lose Ladd and Bolland still or something like that. Maybe not a team that can win the Cup, but we'll still be good and competitive next season and that's all I'm really looking for.


I'm not mad with you. I dislike the trolls. You've been nothing but reasonable. LGW needs more fans of other teams that are willing to honestly discuss hockey instead of trolling. :thumbup:

If we can love Duck Guy after the 07 playoffs we can love anyone. (Except Pronger. f*** him)

Well no, but you already counted the loss of Byfuglien. You can't count it again.

And yeah, I mean obviously we're downgrading big time. I'm not trying to say in any way that these trades make us better. We're obviously getting worse and there's only one reason for these trades.


At least you guys were smart enough to trade them to crappy teams in the East and for the record I think Stalburg will be good for you guys. He's got great hands.
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#153 DatsyukianDeke13

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:41 AM

I'm not mad with you. I dislike the trolls. You've been nothing but reasonable. LGW needs more fans of other teams that are willing to honestly discuss hockey instead of trolling. :thumbup:

If we can love Duck Guy after the 07 playoffs we can love anyone. (Except Pronger. f*** him)


:thumbup:
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#154 Shaman

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:43 AM

IMO, Chicago should have just traded Hossa. They could have gotten good players in return (instead of good PROSPECTS and career 3rd and 4th liners). I mean seriously, they made it to the WCF without Hossa. Now, they pay him a ton of money and he has another sub par playoff performance? Kane, Keith, and Toews could have kept this team afloat with a strong core, but now, they are losing this all because they had to go for the overkill signing (hossa).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another tweet from McKenzie earlier in the day (just incase you didn't see it)

"Final tweets for night: Sounds like Ladd on move out of CHI. If he goes to arb, too expensive for CHI. One NHL GM predicts ATL gets him. "

If true, that means that Chicago will have lost:
-Byfuglien
-Versteeg
-Ladd
-Sopel
-Eager
-Fraser

(am I missing somebody?)

Also, there have been reports that it is very unlikely Madden and Burish will return because they will both seek more playing time and money. On top of that, they have to give Niemi and Hjalmarsson big raises. In what realm do Hawks fans think they won't lose much?

Madden won't be back, its pretty much for sure... Not the most offensive player, but great guy nonetheless.

Edited by Shaman464, 01 July 2010 - 01:46 AM.

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#155 WhiteLightning91

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 02:27 AM

Blackhawks cap situation with MINIMUM (10%) raises for RFA's (marked with *) with McKenzie's bonus prediction.

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Andrew Ladd ($1.705m)
* Jack Skille ($1.403m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.550m)

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($0.707m)

Cristobal Huet ($5.625m) / * Antti Niemi ($1.550m)

ROSTER: 18; CAP: $55.2m; PAYROLL: $57.096m; CAP ROOM: $-1.831m BONUSES: $0.065m


Still need another forward and 3 defensemen. Yes, I know Huet is probably not going to be on the roster. This is just to show what the roster looks like at the moment.


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#156 Heaten

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 03:23 AM

Blackhawks cap situation with MINIMUM (10%) raises for RFA's (marked with *) with McKenzie's bonus prediction.

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Andrew Ladd ($1.705m)
* Jack Skille ($1.403m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.550m)

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($0.707m)

Cristobal Huet ($5.625m) / * Antti Niemi ($1.550m)

ROSTER: 18; CAP: $55.2m; PAYROLL: $57.096m; CAP ROOM: $-1.831m BONUSES: $0.065m


Still need another forward and 3 defensemen. Yes, I know Huet is probably not going to be on the roster. This is just to show what the roster looks like at the moment.


Looking at it from this perspective, it looks like Blackhawks will need to lose one of Sharp or Bolland. Losing Ladd won't be enough to fill the roster with even scrubs.

#157 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:57 AM

Either Bowman knows something about the bonus situation everyone else doesn't, or he's on crack.

Just as big as announcing the trade was Bowman’s casual insistence that he’ll have no trouble signing his big three restricted free agents. Antti Niemi, Niklas Hjalmarsson and Andrew Ladd hit the market Thursday and could potentially be plucked away by another team.

“Offer-sheet talk is of no concern to me,” Bowman said.

He was right about one thing. There haven’t been many restricted free agents that have switched teams over the years. But does that mean the Hawks will match anyone’s offer, or does Bowman just not believe anyone will get an offer?

“[Offer sheets] don’t concern me,” Bowman repeated. “These guys are going to remain with the Blackhawks. We have plenty of flexibility to make things work.”


It's one thing to say "we don't have to make any more moves", but it's another to flat out say those guys will be back. I don't know if that could even be considered posturing.

Really weird.

#158 stevkrause

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:03 AM

IMO, Chicago should have just traded Hossa. They could have gotten good players in return (instead of good PROSPECTS and career 3rd and 4th liners). I mean seriously, they made it to the WCF without Hossa. Now, they pay him a ton of money and he has another sub par playoff performance? Kane, Keith, and Toews could have kept this team afloat with a strong core, but now, they are losing this all because they had to go for the overkill signing (hossa).

doesn't Hossa have a NTC... at least in the first several years of his deal?

back to the topic at hand - I think this was a great deal for both teams - Chicago gets cap relief and all prospects, meaning more cap space and roster spots and Toronto gets a proven NHL player with 20+ goal ability and some nastiness to his game, not to mention another pretty decent prospect in Sweat...

Edited by stevkrause, 01 July 2010 - 09:06 AM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#159 stevkrause

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:08 AM

Blackhawks cap situation with MINIMUM (10%) raises for RFA's (marked with *) with McKenzie's bonus prediction.

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Andrew Ladd ($1.705m)
* Jack Skille ($1.403m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.550m)

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($0.707m)

Cristobal Huet ($5.625m) / * Antti Niemi ($1.550m)

ROSTER: 18; CAP: $55.2m; PAYROLL: $57.096m; CAP ROOM: $-1.831m BONUSES: $0.065m


Still need another forward and 3 defensemen. Yes, I know Huet is probably not going to be on the roster. This is just to show what the roster looks like at the moment.

Cap is at 59.4 now... that leaves 2.4 to fill those spots... that can be done...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#160 Opie

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:11 AM

Cap is at 59.4 now... that leaves 2.4 to fill those spots... that can be done...


And Technically the only need 2 defenseman, then it could be one forward or one D-man, nothing says you need two scratches, the Wings operated with just Meech for most of last season if I am not mistaken.

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