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redwingmachine

Hawks deal Ladd to Thrashers

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Who's next Hjmarsson(sp) or Niemi?

Doobie-doobie-doo!

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******* sucks to be a blackhawk since they won a cup

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******* sucks to be a blackhawk since they won a cup

Meh, not really. We knew this was coming even before they won the Cup. The Cup made it pretty east to swallow.

We're going from a powerhouse to a team that is still good. We'll still finish with 95 or more points next season and we're stacking our farm system with quality forwards for the future. Not stars, but we'll be churning quality Versteeg/Ladd type forwards for a long time, and considered we already have the star type guys locked up long term, we're in good shape for the future.

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Meh, not really. We knew this was coming even before they won the Cup. The Cup made it pretty east to swallow.

We're going from a powerhouse to a team that is still good. We'll still finish with 95 or more points next season and we're stacking our farm system with quality forwards for the future. Not stars, but we'll be churning quality Versteeg/Ladd type forwards for a long time, and considered we already have the star type guys locked up long term, we're in good shape for the future.

I hope after all this is over you stick around this forum. You're more sensible then most people on here.

haroldsnepsts and Edillac like this

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stacking our farm system with quality forwards for the future.

This is a way of not seeing what is actually happening to the team. I mean to be totally honest it took 10 straight garbage years to get the stars you do have now. So I guess every 10 or so years is nice?

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What gets me is how much Atlanta keeps giving the Hawks. Don't other GM's know that the Hawks HAVE to trade these guys? Doesn't that allow them bargaining power to drive down the cost of Ladd (a fringe second line player)? Or for that matter, Byufglien (who's never had a 40 point season)?

Atlanta has basically restocked Chicago's fourth line and their farm system for SUPPORTING players. Vishnevsky (who equals Lehtonen) and a second rounder for Ladd? Its rediculous.

Atlanta traded most of what they got for Kovalchuk (THE Franchise) and Lehtonen (former franchise goaltender) for depth players. It's like Phaneuf for B.Burke's odd's and end's.

Chicago should be ecstatic.

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This is a way of not seeing what is actually happening to the team. I mean to be totally honest it took 10 straight garbage years to get the stars you do have now. So I guess every 10 or so years is nice?

Huh? I don't understand your point.

For forwards, we have Kane, Toews, and Hossa all locked up long term. We don't need to produce star forwards for a while. All we need is to produce quality forwards to pair with them, and we're setting ourselves up great for that.

No offense, but I kind of feel you you're the one who isn't seeing what's happening with the team. At the same time we're losing these guys, we're getting back guys who should be just as good as the guys we're giving up in a few years.

I think the future looks very good for us. We may not win the Cup in the next couple years, but we'll still be good. Then in a few years, we'll have a bunch of these Ladd/Versteeg type forwards producing in the NHL. Also, Kane and Toews will just then be hitting their primes.

In fact, I think these moves are helping us long-term, not hurting us.

Edited by Gordon Bombay
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Chicago should be ecstatic.

I'm definitely really happy the way this offseason is playing out, all things considered. I was worried that the lack of leverage would cause us to give these guys up for nothing. I really like the quality we've gotten back.

I mean obviously I wish we could have just kept the team the way it was, but this isn't the worst thing in the world. We're getting back several QUALITY pieces and doing a great job of insuring that we're good for the future.

Of course there are the bandwagon fans who don't understand what's going on and are bitching about Bowman (I actually saw some guy threatening to stop watching again because we traded "the future best power forward in the game" in Byfuglien), but the knowledgable fans are very pleased with how this is turning out.

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Right. Knowledgable fans should know that Chicago has done incredible given their situation. Morin, Vishnevsky, a 1st, 2 2nd's, and players to fill spots of the departed is an incredible return for the players traded. Any true fan or judge of talent should realize that.

That said, it stinks as a Wings fan to see it be so easy for the Hawks. It also burns be up that the Thrashers continue to burn theit franchise to the ground with bad hockey decision after bad hockey decision.

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Right. Knowledgable fans should know that Chicago has done incredible given their situation. Morin, Vishnevsky, a 1st, 2 2nd's, and players to fill spots of the departed is an incredible return for the players traded. Any true fan or judge of talent should realize that.

That said, it stinks as a Wings fan to see it be so easy for the Hawks. It also burns be up that the Thrashers continue to burn theit franchise to the ground with bad hockey decision after bad hockey decision.

Yeah, the Thrashers are definitely helping us out. Apparently they put a lot of stock into Stanley Cup experience. I think Thrashers' fans are going to be pretty dissapointed with Byfuglien in particular.

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Right. Knowledgable fans should know that Chicago has done incredible given their situation. Morin, Vishnevsky, a 1st, 2 2nd's, and players to fill spots of the departed is an incredible return for the players traded. Any true fan or judge of talent should realize that.

That said, it stinks as a Wings fan to see it be so easy for the Hawks. It also burns be up that the Thrashers continue to burn theit franchise to the ground with bad hockey decision after bad hockey decision.

Hahahaha

Actually it is fantastic to see the Hawks lose all of their depth guys 2 weeks after winning the Cup.

Yea, they still have a good team but there is no question that they took a hit. You don't win a Cup without depth guys and Chicago lost almost all of them.

Keep telling yourself that it's not so bad. That you are restocking for the future.

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Agreed.

The style that Big Buff plays is similar to Holmstrom (but bigger and younger, yet less skilled in that area. As a Wings fan, I love Homer. He is the best at what he does. But if Holmstrom was not surronded by Hall of Famers his whole career he probably does not end up being that player. Even if he did, his game take players of a certain skill level to reach its maximum (Datsyuks puck control, Lidstroms point shot).

Buff is the same style player. From what I believe I know about him, he has never shown the ability to consistantly put up points, let alone be this dominating force everybody thinks he will be. Even with good players around him. So going to Atlanta with Nik Antropov running the show, probably isn't going to be his coming out party.

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Right. Knowledgable fans should know that Chicago has done incredible given their situation. Morin, Vishnevsky, a 1st, 2 2nd's, and players to fill spots of the departed is an incredible return for the players traded. Any true fan or judge of talent should realize that.

That said, it stinks as a Wings fan to see it be so easy for the Hawks. It also burns be up that the Thrashers continue to burn theit franchise to the ground with bad hockey decision after bad hockey decision.

Lol at the silly Blackhawk fans that think they need to come here and preach about hockey. Come back in 15 years noobs.

Edited by Broken 16

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BTW, I am not a Hawks fan. I do believe they will take a hit. You can't replace half the team and think the chemistry will be the same. The skill level right now, after the trades, is lessened as well. But for the situation they were in they've done fantastic.

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Not everything Chicago is getting in return is guaranteed to be an NHL player. Some might pan out, but not all. And the 2nd rounders are a crap shoot. Chicago had to give up real NHL talent for 'maybe they will... maybe they won't pan out' type players.

And considering how poorly managed Chicago is, who's to say they don't continue giving away their proven talent. Chicago have always been 'loose' with their talent. This is going to catch up to them as they don't have any top 3 picks to rely on the past few years.

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If this doesn't prove how amazing the Red Wings' run of success has been, nothing will. It's nearly impossible to do what Detroit has done over the past 15 years.

Edillac likes this

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Hossa locked up long term. We don't need to produce star forwards for a while.Then in a few years, we'll have a bunch of these Ladd/Versteeg type forwards producing in the NHL. Also, Kane and Toews will just then be hitting their primes.

Hossa locked up long term has done nothing but cripple the nucleus of your team that brought you here.

Cup runs can't be predicted and as you state here Ladd/Versteeg types? How do you know thats what you have in the AHL right now? I mean it might seem like its all great on the surface but this was an implosion and waiting another few years or more is not how you sustain any kind of confidence in the league.

Edited by HankthaTank

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I just don't understand why you're acting like the Hawks are going to suck next season. At the very least, they're going to have 2 good offensive lines and 2 very good d- pairings. You seem to have a very broad definition of "implosion". We're probably not losing a top 4 forward, a top 4 d-man, or our goalie. We're losing a whole lot of depth and skill, but not sure how you can call it an implosion when they didn't lose any of their top 4 on either side. Are we going to be a legit Cup contender when the playoffs come around? Maybe not, but we'll be there.

And I don't get why some act like everything will be the same. Did they lose a lot? Sure. But what if other guys step up? What if Kane and Toews get better? I keep hearing "they don't sniff the Cup with Byfuglien, Ladd, etc.". This may be true, but that was LAST season. By that same logic, the Red Wings won't sniff the Cup this season because they didn't come close last year and haven't improved.

Next year is a different year. Let's not act like there aren't all kinds of variables. Are they a lot weak eron paper right now? Absolutely, but "on paper" is just that

Anyways, I expect about 95 or 100 points next season, depending on what else happens. And that's fine with me. Just get into the playoffs and you never know what can happen.

Hossa locked up long term has done nothing but cripple the nucleus of your team that brought you here.

First of all, exactly how did he cripple the nucleus?

nu·cle·us 1. A central or essential part around which other parts are gathered or grouped; a core:

We have not lost ANY of the nucleus. Not sure how you can possibly say we lost any of our nucleus when we havent lost a top 4 forward or a top 4 d-man. We've lost the complimentary players. Are those guys key to a cup run? Absolutely. But we haven't lost any of the nucleus. Unless you consider an 11th or 12th best player on a team part of it's core. (in which case, you think a core is half the roster)

Hossa locked up long term has done nothing

Except, you know, helped us win a Stanley Cup (I'm aware he didn't score many goals. He still was extremely valuable in the playoffs and we wouldn't have won without him). Does that make his contract good? No, but I don't understand this thought process of "I hope it was worth it Hawks fans, because you're paying the price now" that I see a lot. Hell yeah it was worth it. If you told me "we can go back in time and take away the Hossa signing, then let thing play out", I'd say no. We probably don't win the Cup if that's the case. So I'd say it's worked out pretty well, even if it costs us in the long run.

I think Red Wings fans are so used to winning, that they forget what it feels like for normal organizations that don't have this kind of sustained success. If you told Blackhawks fans before this season "You can win the Cup this year, but you'll be mediocre for the next 5", they'd have all said YES without any hesitation.

Not every organization can do what the Red Wings do, and that's ok.

Edited by Gordon Bombay
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If this doesn't prove how amazing the Red Wings' run of success has been, nothing will. It's nearly impossible to do what Detroit has done over the past 15 years.

Exactly. I just think a lot of the time, people look down on organizations for not doing the same... instead of just commending the team that DID do it.

I see people talking like the Hawks are regretting their decisions because of the players they lost this season, and I'm thinking "WHAT?!". No matter what happens over the next few seasons, it was ABSOLUTELY worth it. There are no regrets at all. If we had lost, it would be a different story. Luckily we took advantage and got it done this year. Anything the Blackhawks give us over the next few years is just icing on the cake to me. There's a grace period, especially in Chicago where championships are hard to come by.

Edited by Gordon Bombay

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I just don't understand why you're acting like the Hawks are going to suck next season. At the very least, they're going to have 2 good offensive lines and 2 very good d- pairings. You seem to have a very broad definition of "implosion". We're probably not losing a top 4 forward, a top 4 d-man, or our goalie. We're losing a whole lot of depth and skill, but not sure how you can call it an implosion when they didn't lose any of their top 4 on either side. Are we going to be a legit Cup contender when the playoffs come around? Maybe not, but we'll be there.

And I don't get why some act like everything will be the same. Did they lose a lot? Sure. But what if other guys step up? What if Kane and Toews get better? I keep hearing "they don't sniff the Cup with Byfuglien, Ladd, etc.". This may be true, but that was LAST season. By that same logic, the Red Wings won't sniff the Cup this season because they didn't come close last year and haven't improved.

Next year is a different year. Let's not act like there aren't all kinds of variables. Are they a lot weak eron paper right now? Absolutely, but "on paper" is just that

Anyways, I expect about 95 or 100 points next season, depending on what else happens. And that's fine with me. Just get into the playoffs and you never know what can happen.

First of all, exactly how did he cripple the nucleus?

nu·cle·us 1. A central or essential part around which other parts are gathered or grouped; a core:

We have not lost ANY of the nucleus. Not sure how you can possibly say we lost any of our nucleus when we havent lost a top 4 forward or a top 4 d-man. We've lost the complimentary players. Are those guys key to a cup run? Absolutely. But we haven't lost any of the nucleus. Unless you consider an 11th or 12th best player on a team part of it's core. (in which case, you think a core is half the roster)

Except, you know, helped us win a Stanley Cup (I'm aware he didn't score many goals. He still was extremely valuable in the playoffs and we wouldn't have won without him). Does that make his contract good? No, but I don't understand this thought process of "I hope it was worth it Hawks fans, because you're paying the price now" that I see a lot. Hell yeah it was worth it. If you told me "we can go back in time and take away the Hossa signing, then let thing play out", I'd say no. We probably don't win the Cup if that's the case. So I'd say it's worked out pretty well, even if it costs us in the long run.

I think Red Wings fans are so used to winning, that they forget what it feels like for normal organizations that don't have this kind of sustained success. If you told Blackhawks fans before this season "You can win the Cup this year, but you'll be mediocre for the next 5", they'd have all said YES without any hesitation.

Not every organization can do what the Red Wings do, and that's ok.

The Hawks have 2 good lines and one 1.5 defensive pairings. Ask Tampa the last few years how well that works out... Hossa has proven in the last few post season (the season with the Pens more and more seems like the exception not the norm) hes a playoff no show. So when the hawks get into the playoffs next season they have 1.5 good lines. Now what happens when a team throws their best defensive players against Kane, and Toews has no one to finish for him? Secondary scoring wins cups, its been proven in spades in the last 3 years (Sammy in 08, Talbot in 09 Bolland and Versteeg this year proved this).. teams just cant win in the playoffs with a couple good lines.

Jasper84 likes this

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