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Hawks deal Ladd to Thrashers


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#21 Octopus's Garden

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:09 PM

If this doesn't prove how amazing the Red Wings' run of success has been, nothing will. It's nearly impossible to do what Detroit has done over the past 15 years.

#22 HankthaTank

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:34 PM

Hossa locked up long term. We don't need to produce star forwards for a while.Then in a few years, we'll have a bunch of these Ladd/Versteeg type forwards producing in the NHL. Also, Kane and Toews will just then be hitting their primes.

Hossa locked up long term has done nothing but cripple the nucleus of your team that brought you here.

Cup runs can't be predicted and as you state here Ladd/Versteeg types? How do you know thats what you have in the AHL right now? I mean it might seem like its all great on the surface but this was an implosion and waiting another few years or more is not how you sustain any kind of confidence in the league.

Edited by HankthaTank, 01 July 2010 - 09:46 PM.

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#23 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 01:52 AM

I just don't understand why you're acting like the Hawks are going to suck next season. At the very least, they're going to have 2 good offensive lines and 2 very good d- pairings. You seem to have a very broad definition of "implosion". We're probably not losing a top 4 forward, a top 4 d-man, or our goalie. We're losing a whole lot of depth and skill, but not sure how you can call it an implosion when they didn't lose any of their top 4 on either side. Are we going to be a legit Cup contender when the playoffs come around? Maybe not, but we'll be there.

And I don't get why some act like everything will be the same. Did they lose a lot? Sure. But what if other guys step up? What if Kane and Toews get better? I keep hearing "they don't sniff the Cup with Byfuglien, Ladd, etc.". This may be true, but that was LAST season. By that same logic, the Red Wings won't sniff the Cup this season because they didn't come close last year and haven't improved.

Next year is a different year. Let's not act like there aren't all kinds of variables. Are they a lot weak eron paper right now? Absolutely, but "on paper" is just that

Anyways, I expect about 95 or 100 points next season, depending on what else happens. And that's fine with me. Just get into the playoffs and you never know what can happen.

Hossa locked up long term has done nothing but cripple the nucleus of your team that brought you here.


First of all, exactly how did he cripple the nucleus?

nu·cle·us 1. A central or essential part around which other parts are gathered or grouped; a core:

We have not lost ANY of the nucleus. Not sure how you can possibly say we lost any of our nucleus when we havent lost a top 4 forward or a top 4 d-man. We've lost the complimentary players. Are those guys key to a cup run? Absolutely. But we haven't lost any of the nucleus. Unless you consider an 11th or 12th best player on a team part of it's core. (in which case, you think a core is half the roster)

Hossa locked up long term has done nothing


Except, you know, helped us win a Stanley Cup (I'm aware he didn't score many goals. He still was extremely valuable in the playoffs and we wouldn't have won without him). Does that make his contract good? No, but I don't understand this thought process of "I hope it was worth it Hawks fans, because you're paying the price now" that I see a lot. Hell yeah it was worth it. If you told me "we can go back in time and take away the Hossa signing, then let thing play out", I'd say no. We probably don't win the Cup if that's the case. So I'd say it's worked out pretty well, even if it costs us in the long run.

I think Red Wings fans are so used to winning, that they forget what it feels like for normal organizations that don't have this kind of sustained success. If you told Blackhawks fans before this season "You can win the Cup this year, but you'll be mediocre for the next 5", they'd have all said YES without any hesitation.

Not every organization can do what the Red Wings do, and that's ok.

Edited by Gordon Bombay, 02 July 2010 - 02:00 AM.


#24 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:03 AM

If this doesn't prove how amazing the Red Wings' run of success has been, nothing will. It's nearly impossible to do what Detroit has done over the past 15 years.


Exactly. I just think a lot of the time, people look down on organizations for not doing the same... instead of just commending the team that DID do it.

I see people talking like the Hawks are regretting their decisions because of the players they lost this season, and I'm thinking "WHAT?!". No matter what happens over the next few seasons, it was ABSOLUTELY worth it. There are no regrets at all. If we had lost, it would be a different story. Luckily we took advantage and got it done this year. Anything the Blackhawks give us over the next few years is just icing on the cake to me. There's a grace period, especially in Chicago where championships are hard to come by.

Edited by Gordon Bombay, 02 July 2010 - 02:04 AM.


#25 Shaman

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:16 AM

I just don't understand why you're acting like the Hawks are going to suck next season. At the very least, they're going to have 2 good offensive lines and 2 very good d- pairings. You seem to have a very broad definition of "implosion". We're probably not losing a top 4 forward, a top 4 d-man, or our goalie. We're losing a whole lot of depth and skill, but not sure how you can call it an implosion when they didn't lose any of their top 4 on either side. Are we going to be a legit Cup contender when the playoffs come around? Maybe not, but we'll be there.

And I don't get why some act like everything will be the same. Did they lose a lot? Sure. But what if other guys step up? What if Kane and Toews get better? I keep hearing "they don't sniff the Cup with Byfuglien, Ladd, etc.". This may be true, but that was LAST season. By that same logic, the Red Wings won't sniff the Cup this season because they didn't come close last year and haven't improved.

Next year is a different year. Let's not act like there aren't all kinds of variables. Are they a lot weak eron paper right now? Absolutely, but "on paper" is just that

Anyways, I expect about 95 or 100 points next season, depending on what else happens. And that's fine with me. Just get into the playoffs and you never know what can happen.



First of all, exactly how did he cripple the nucleus?

nu·cle·us 1. A central or essential part around which other parts are gathered or grouped; a core:

We have not lost ANY of the nucleus. Not sure how you can possibly say we lost any of our nucleus when we havent lost a top 4 forward or a top 4 d-man. We've lost the complimentary players. Are those guys key to a cup run? Absolutely. But we haven't lost any of the nucleus. Unless you consider an 11th or 12th best player on a team part of it's core. (in which case, you think a core is half the roster)



Except, you know, helped us win a Stanley Cup (I'm aware he didn't score many goals. He still was extremely valuable in the playoffs and we wouldn't have won without him). Does that make his contract good? No, but I don't understand this thought process of "I hope it was worth it Hawks fans, because you're paying the price now" that I see a lot. Hell yeah it was worth it. If you told me "we can go back in time and take away the Hossa signing, then let thing play out", I'd say no. We probably don't win the Cup if that's the case. So I'd say it's worked out pretty well, even if it costs us in the long run.

I think Red Wings fans are so used to winning, that they forget what it feels like for normal organizations that don't have this kind of sustained success. If you told Blackhawks fans before this season "You can win the Cup this year, but you'll be mediocre for the next 5", they'd have all said YES without any hesitation.

Not every organization can do what the Red Wings do, and that's ok.

The Hawks have 2 good lines and one 1.5 defensive pairings. Ask Tampa the last few years how well that works out... Hossa has proven in the last few post season (the season with the Pens more and more seems like the exception not the norm) hes a playoff no show. So when the hawks get into the playoffs next season they have 1.5 good lines. Now what happens when a team throws their best defensive players against Kane, and Toews has no one to finish for him? Secondary scoring wins cups, its been proven in spades in the last 3 years (Sammy in 08, Talbot in 09 Bolland and Versteeg this year proved this).. teams just cant win in the playoffs with a couple good lines.
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#26 hockey23

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 03:02 AM

By that same logic, the Red Wings won't sniff the Cup this season because they didn't come close last year and haven't improved.

Stick to talking about the Hawks. The Wings issue last year was secondary scoring and that was addressed by adding a 26 year old who has already put up a 57 point season. Also, free agents such as Modano may be added to also help with depth scoring. They have improved and may not be done improving.

#27 WingsForever

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 03:22 AM

sorry Hawks troll, losing your bottom 7 forwards and bottom 3 defensemen is still called a dismantling. No matter what terms you want to put it in.

You wait, imagine how many knowledgeable hockey players will want to sign long-term high-dollar deals with Chicago considering the second they under-perform they get put on waivers.

I know I personally wouldn't want to sign with a front office with that mentality. The Red Wings will be better than last year, and I don't know if Comcast only airs Blackhawk games or what - but I think you can still read about how injury-ridden we were last season.

Did you see the clinic we put on after the olympics?

Thats the team we're putting on the ice come October, with the addition of Hudler.

Sorry for kicking your soapbox. :(

#28 Gordon Bombay

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:33 AM

The Hawks have 2 good lines and one 1.5 defensive pairings. Ask Tampa the last few years how well that works out...


Tell me the D pairings the Lightning have had over the past few seasons that are even close to as good as Keith/Seabrook and Hjalmarsson/Campbell. I would absolutely love to hear that.

Don't try the "I'll throw out the Lightning as as an example and hope he doesn't know they aren't comparable" stuff with me. I live in St. Pete and I follow the Lightning. The comparison has no basis at all. None. It's a copout.

sorry Hawks troll, losing your bottom 7 forwards and bottom 3 defensemen is still called a dismantling. No matter what terms you want to put it in.

You wait, imagine how many knowledgeable hockey players will want to sign long-term high-dollar deals with Chicago considering the second they under-perform they get put on waivers.

I know I personally wouldn't want to sign with a front office with that mentality. The Red Wings will be better than last year, and I don't know if Comcast only airs Blackhawk games or what - but I think you can still read about how injury-ridden we were last season.

Did you see the clinic we put on after the olympics?

Thats the team we're putting on the ice come October, with the addition of Hudler.


I'm a troll? How? I've been pretty respectful, and most have been the same way in return. You just seem bitter. Why is that?

Sorry for kicking your soapbox. ../../../public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif


Again, not sure why you think I'm all bummed out about any of this. I'm not asking for anything other than a competetive team and a playoff appearance next season, and we'll get that.

Did you see the clinic we put on after the olympics?

Thats the team we're putting on the ice come October, with the addition of Hudler.


There's being confident, and there's being cocky. We'll see about that when the season starts. You can go ahead and hoist your paper championship though I guess if it eases the pain of the Hawks winning a Cup.

You wait, imagine how many knowledgeable hockey players will want to sign long-term high-dollar deals with Chicago considering the second they under-perform they get put on waivers.


We literally are going to do that with ONE player.

If any high-dollar player is afraid of sucking as bad as Huet and being waived, then I don't want him anyways.

Oh well.. I guess I'll leave, since saying anything positive about a team other than Detroit is apparently "trolling". I understand this is a Red Wings board and some won't take lightly to saying that the Blackhawks are anything other than horrible, but I figured if I was reasonable about it I'd get a fair shake.

Oh well. Good luck next season. I look forward to the Chicago Blackhawks doing their best to defend their Stanley Cup Championship. If it doesn't work out, oh well. I'll congratulate the Red Wings if they win the division, and I'll actually welcome Detroit fans on my board.

Edited by Gordon Bombay, 02 July 2010 - 07:35 AM.


#29 theman19

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:35 AM

Here's what I don't understand. The blackhawks are STILL in cap trouble,..yet they sign this guy: http://www.tsn.ca/nh...ode=&name=Scott, John&hubname=nhl to a one year, one million dollar deal?

#30 stevkrause

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:44 AM

I'm a troll? How? I've been pretty respectful, and most have been the same way in return. You just seem bitter. Why is that?



Again, not sure why you think I'm all bummed out about any of this. I'm not asking for anything other than a competetive team and a playoff appearance next season, and we'll get that.



There's being confident, and there's being cocky. We'll see about that when the season starts. You can go ahead and hoist your paper championship though I guess if it eases the pain of the Hawks winning a Cup.



We literally are going to do that with ONE player.

If any high-dollar player is afraid of sucking as bad as Huet and being waived, then I don't want him anyways.

Oh well.. I guess I'll leave, since saying anything positive about a team other than Detroit is apparently "trolling". I understand this is a Red Wings board and some won't take lightly to saying that the Blackhawks are anything other than horrible, but I figured if I was reasonable about it I'd get a fair shake.

Oh well. Good luck next season. I look forward to the Chicago Blackhawks doing their best to defend their Stanley Cup Championship.

I've been just reading this thread and kinda hanging back, but I have to pipe in - You have been nothing but respectful and had some of the most lucid arguments of ANY other teams fans we've had at this board and the very least the rest of the LGW posters could do, is reply with the same respect and rationale - there is a BIG difference between backing an argument and flaming someone for no reason... not cool.

Now, to Gordon Bombay - The changes Chicago has been forced to make are going to drastically change the team and will most likely make them very considerably weaker as they must pay for their sins and you have to accept that the team will probably be a 5-8 seed(or lower) now for at least a couple years as they re-tool... with that in mind, Stanley Cups don't grow on trees and even IF(and I say if) it meant sacrificing the next 10 years of the franchise for a cup now - it was worth it...

Anytime a team turns over even 3 or 4 players(not just star players) there is going to be a MASSIVE gelling curve and you cannot quantify team chemistry by ability and I think it is one of the most undervalued concepts in professional sports and to turn over 7, 8, 9 players - expect MAJOR growing pains next year - this is a deep league and even with one of the most talented top 6 in the game and one hell of a top 2 D pairing... your depth took a SERIOUS hit and THAT is what wins championships...

Next, onto the Huet thing - it may only be one player, but that sets a BAD precedence and it will cost the team in the future, especially with goalies(which you may need if Niemi signs an offer-sheet which you cannot match) and also, lets not discount the fact that although this is not the old man, the Blackhawks are still pretty tight with money and I doubt the son is willing to just eat 5 million dollars to make a problem go away... there is a VERY good chance Huet stays on this roster if the cannot trade him (which there's NO way they'll be able to do with all the goalie's on the market right now)

As you have already stated and have been very clear about (you expect a drop off) and for that reason alone, I don't see how anyone really has a problem with your posts, you are being pretty logical and of course you are going to defend your team, as you should.

Everyone needs to read, process and be respectful.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#31 topshelf14

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:20 AM

I don't comment too often but had to chime in on this one. To the guy calling Bombay a "troll" is ridiculous. I feel that he came up with some respectful and well thought out comments about his team. You must be a "troll" yourself being on this forum waiting to chew someone out.

Anyways, I think the Hawks will still have a competitive team, but I do enjoy the fact that there having to give up almost half of there cup winning team. What they are getting in return is pretty substantial. Especially with the fact that the whole league new they'd be unloading a ton of players, so to be receiving in return top prospects, and 1st round draft picks is unbelievable. I still think as a whole the Wings have a much better roster on paper, but we'll have to wait and see what happens this season.
Go Wings!!!

#32 Frozen-Man

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:25 AM

Tell me the D pairings the Lightning have had over the past few seasons that are even close to as good as Keith/Seabrook and Hjalmarsson/Campbell. I would absolutely love to hear that.

I agree with you there but it is still not certain that Hjalmarsson will be a Hawk next season. He only made $600k last year and is due for a big (top four D man) raise. Combine that with the high price teams have been willing to pay for D men so far this free agency and the fact all teams know the Hawks are against the cap wall and he may get an offer the Hawks can't match or that at the least will force them to pay much more for him than they want. Hjalmarsson hasn't had a big payday yet, already has a cup and will likely want to max out and get as much as possible for his next contract.


I'm a troll? How? I've been pretty respectful, and most have been the same way in return. You just seem bitter. Why is that?


You have absolutely not been a troll. You have been well informed, articulate, and nothing in your posts indicates that you came here merely to trash the Wings and start fights. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the other poster and hope that he was referring to some previous Hawks fan's postings. You however, have done nothing but improve the debate and discussion here.


Again, not sure why you think I'm all bummed out about any of this. I'm not asking for anything other than a competetive team and a playoff appearance next season, and we'll get that.

Oh well.. I guess I'll leave, since saying anything positive about a team other than Detroit is apparently "trolling". I understand this is a Red Wings board and some won't take lightly to saying that the Blackhawks are anything other than horrible, but I figured if I was reasonable about it I'd get a fair shake.

Oh well. Good luck next season. I look forward to the Chicago Blackhawks doing their best to defend their Stanley Cup Championship. If it doesn't work out, oh well. I'll congratulate the Red Wings if they win the division, and I'll actually welcome Detroit fans on my board.


Your team should still be very competitive next year, they have too many good players not to be. The depth that they are losing will likely hinder them from being elite but they should still be very competitive, and with all the prospects/picks they are getting in return they should be able to retool quicker than most teams.

Finally, you are welcomed on this board and I for one hope you continue to post here.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


#33 Frozen-Man

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:32 AM

Here's what I don't understand. The blackhawks are STILL in cap trouble,..yet they sign this guy: http://www.tsn.ca/nh...ode=&name=Scott, John&hubname=nhl to a one year, one million dollar deal?


Not sure which is right but Capgeek is showing $512,500 per year for two years.

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#34 WingsForever

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 10:06 AM

I stand by what I said, the Wings were on the play-off bubble and fought up to fifth to make the play-offs in the time after the Olympic break.

Yea, you may be not be a troll, so i apologize there, i was getting your posts confused with another blackhawk fan over here. So thats my mistake.

I don't mind the Blackhawks as a team, but their management is horrendous. Hossa is an annual choke (should have been traded to the sharks, that would have made some sense) Huet? I don't think he was worth that contract when he was good wait, last year? two years ago? Heh... and now to just bury their mistake in the minors seems pretty low.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that you don't get people to take a 'hometown' discount by crapping money out on bad contracts and throwing them on waivers when the contract doesn't benefit you.

So Gordon Bombay, you're not a troll and I can understand that yea, it's nice to be hopeful about a good solid team next year, the core is there, you're correct, but you really can't include Hossa ... he, well ... yea. The Hawks are in major re-build mode after buying a Cup. So it is what it is and I'm sure the front office knew that.

October here yet?

#35 Broken 16

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:26 PM

Lol at Hawk fans that think that they can round out 50% of their roster with NHL and AHL jobbers and still be considered an elite team. You guys are in for a rude awakening. You are going to have every other team throwing the kitchen sink at your team EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. It's going to be an endless assault for the entire season. 99% of Hawk fans weren't even born the last time they won a Cup so they have no clue what their team is up against next season.

The best part is Kopecky. We were relieved when he wasn't playing. When Kopecky goes down next season with an injury, and he will... there will be a hole in the second line as well. Lol.

Then again... maybe every plugger they insert will magically ascend into perfect role players for the Hawks... good luck with that.

Edited by Broken 16, 03 July 2010 - 01:27 PM.


#36 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:39 PM

I don't comment too often but had to chime in on this one. To the guy calling Bombay a "troll" is ridiculous. I feel that he came up with some respectful and well thought out comments about his team. You must be a "troll" yourself being on this forum waiting to chew someone out.

Anyways, I think the Hawks will still have a competitive team, but I do enjoy the fact that there having to give up almost half of there cup winning team. What they are getting in return is pretty substantial. Especially with the fact that the whole league new they'd be unloading a ton of players, so to be receiving in return top prospects, and 1st round draft picks is unbelievable. I still think as a whole the Wings have a much better roster on paper, but we'll have to wait and see what happens this season.


You should post here more often.

Lol at Hawk fans that think that they can round out 50% of their roster with NHL and AHL jobbers and still be considered an elite team. You guys are in for a rude awakening. You are going to have every other team throwing the kitchen sink at your team EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. It's going to be an endless assault for the entire season. 99% of Hawk fans weren't even born the last time they won a Cup so they have no clue what their team is up against next season.

The best part is Kopecky. We were relieved when he wasn't playing. When Kopecky goes down next season with an injury, and he will... there will be a hole in the second line as well. Lol.

Then again... maybe every plugger they insert will magically ascend into perfect role players for the Hawks... good luck with that.



B-b-b-but we jus won da Cup n Detroit still suckzz!!!

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