Is Vancouver the team to beat?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Bingo. Luongo doesn't scare me in the playoffs.

Hell, he doesn't even scare me during the regular season. For whatever reason Hank dominates him every time they play, I don't think he scores so consistently on any other goalie.

[Original-Six 254]

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Luongo is too inconsistent. The Canucks beat the Kings in the first round because they scored a lot of goals, not because Luongo played well.

i'm with you on this 100%. trade luongo to some retard team for a top 6 forward and then we'll talk about vancouver being the favorite. with the D the canucks have now, they don't need luongo ******* things up by letting in squeakers.

though if you're the flames, and the best you can do july 1st is sign 2 guys that sucked the big one last stop over in your barn....the canucks are the team to beat i guess. there's 8 easy wins for the canucks next season. i'd rather have holland do what he did...nothing that is, than sign those 2 bums!

if the canucks add a top 6 guy that can net a few, then they're money. if they were smart, they'd dump luongo for a 1st somewhere and sign kovy.

[eva unit zero 271]

Vancouver:

Top six forwards: Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Ryan Kesler, Mikael Samuelsson, Alex Burrows, Manny Malhotra (!)

Top four defensemen: Christian Ehrhoff, Dan Hamhuis, Alex Edler, Keith Ballard

Goaltender: Roberto Luongo

Now, is that the team to beat? Let's take a look at how they compare to the Wings:

Top six forwards: Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen, Jiri Hudler, Valtteri Filppula, Tomas Holmstrom

Top four defensemen: Nicklas Lidstrom, Niklas Kronwall, Brian Rafalski, Brad Stuart

Goaltender: Jimmy Howard

Henrik Sedin vs Pavel Datsyuk: Sedin won the Art Ross and the Hart. Datsyuk won the Selke. Sedin has been considered one of the less talented first-line centers in the NHL for years, Datsyuk has been a Hart trophy finalist before and has multiple Selkes. EVEN.

Daniel Sedin vs Henrik Zetterberg; Most people consider the twins to be about even in skill, and most people consider Pav and Dats about even. So I'll ignore the comparison and go no further. EVEN.

Ryan Kesler vs Johan Franzen: Kesler is good. Franzen is better. DETROIT

Mikael Samuelsson vs Jiri Hudler: Can anyone SERIOUSLY say Samuelsson is better than Hudler? No? Didn't think so. DETROIT.

Alex Burrows vs Tomas Holmstrom: Burrows would have outscored Holmstrom had Holmstrom played the full season. Burrows also was playing with two of the top ten scoring forwards in the league this year. Holmstrom is still the best net-front presence, although Burrows does provide a more rounded all-around game. EVEN.

Manny Malhotra vs. Valtteri Filppla: Filppula is a top-six forward; a defensive specialist with good offensive skills that have been blossoming. Malhotra is a very fast skater who was supposed to be an offensive force, but that never happened. Instead, he became a good defensive forward who is also a great faceoff man. DETROIT

Christian Ehrhoff vs Nicklas Lidstrom: I almost laughed putting up this comparison. I feel bad including Lidstrom; maybe I should put him last to make the Canucks' defense compare more favorably. DETROIT.

Dan Hamhuis vs Niklas Kronwall: This is a fair comparison. Hamhuis and Kronwall are both solid defensive defensemen who play a rough, physical game. Except for the fact that Hamhuis is an average offensive defenseman for a top-four guy, while Kronwall is one of the league's most capable offensive defensemen. DETROIT.

Alex Edler vs. Brian Rafalski: This is pretty close. Both of these guys are skilled offensive defensemen who are generally lacking in physical presence, but play a decent defensive game. Edler is younger, and has the brighter future, but Rafalski is the better defenseman right now. DETROIT (for now).

Keith Ballard vs. Brad Stuart: Stuart is better physically, both are very good defensive defensemen and good penalty killers. Ballard gets the edge on offense, but who knows what happens to his scoring numbers going from being a #2 defenseman to being a #4 defenseman. VANCOUVER

Roberto Luongo vs. Jimmy Howard: Luongo is one of the league's better goalies every year, but has always cracked in pressure situations. Howard had a great rookie year and followed it with a questionable playoff. There is no guarantee Howard will be that good again, but Luongo is not the secret weapon some seem to think. VANCOUVER.

Ultimately, Vancouver's core is not nearly as good as Detroit's.

Luongo's presence plus a couple good forwards and a couple good defensemen doesn't automatically make the Nucks the team to beat. The Canadian media needs to give up the hard-on for Luongo and realize that he's not the superstar goalie that he is hyped to be. The "team to beat" in Canada is probably Calgary. Iginla, Jokinen, Langkow, Stajan, Bourque, Tanguay, Glencross, Kotalik, Hagman for a top nine? That's actually pretty solid. Sarich is probably on the outs, and then the team uses his $3.6m to sign Ian White. White, Bouwmeester, Regehr, Staois makes for a decent top four, and Kipper in goal is a good option if the 'on' switch is flipped. Henrik Karlsson and Leland Irving are good safety measures if Kipper hits the skids, though.

As far as the team to beat in the West?

Right now, I would say Detroit, partially because Detroit is the best team based on actual players signed. That could change. But most teams are not that far off from closing in on their final rosters. Some need to make a move or two, but the Wings have the best setup right now.

Edited July 3, 2010 by eva unit zero

[NazMo 1]

Yes, they most certainly are this season. ; )

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Hell, he doesn't even scare me during the regular season. For whatever reason Hank dominates him every time they play, I don't think he scores so consistently on any other goalie.

Just a few nice highlights -

[NazMo 1]

That zetterberg goal with 0.3 to go was a real heart breaker. He does play his best hockey versus the Canucks.

Luongo is getting a much better goalie coach this season so hopefully that will help.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Hopefully for Canuck fans, it will help with his poor attitude as well.

[NazMo 1]

Hopefully for Canuck fans, it will help with his poor attitude as well.

Amen to that.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Amen to that.

What was the reaction around Canuck land after his comments following the loss to Chicago?

[Chairman Maouth 97]

It would be so cool if I had the energy to go back and search the posts on this forum from the summer of two years ago when Mike Gillis was hired -- and read about how the general consensus was that Vancouver would be a bottom-dwelling team for years to come. The Canucks had chosen a fool for a G.M. etc., etc. Detroit fans were giddy in their enjoyment of that mistaken assessment.

It proves one thing for certain; that objective opinions on a rival teams forum are worth about as much as what it costs to post them.

Now, in the summer of 2010, Detroit fans appear to be getting their s*** in a very tight knot about the fact that other teams in the West, including Vancouver, are overtaking them as favourites to vie for the Stanley Cup. Some of the absurd and uninformed comments on this thread prove that.

Personally, at this point, I don't see any team as being the team to beat in the West, but I do know that Vancouver has definitely improved while other traditionally strong teams have either weakened or done little to improve. Time will tell I guess.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

It would be so cool if I had the energy to go back and search the posts on this forum from the summer of two years ago when Mike Gillis was hired -- and read about how the general consensus was that Vancouver would be a bottom-dwelling team for years to come. The Canucks had chosen a fool for a G.M. etc., etc. Detroit fans were giddy in their enjoyment of that mistaken assessment.

It proves one thing for certain; that objective opinions on a rival teams forum are worth about as much as what it costs to post them.

Now, in the summer of 2010, Detroit fans appear to be getting their s*** in a very tight knot about the fact that other teams in the West, including Vancouver, are overtaking them as favourites to vie for the Stanley Cup. Some of the absurd and uninformed comments on this thread prove that.

Personally, at this point, I don't see any team as being the team to beat in the West, but I do know that Vancouver has definitely improved while other traditionally strong teams have either weakened or done little to improve. Time will tell I guess.

Such as?

BTW, two consecutive 2nd round losses, during which your star netminder melts down, doesn't exactly spell "on the cusp of winning Lord Stanley".

[Chairman Maouth 97]

Such as?

BTW, two consecutive 2nd round losses, during which your star netminder melts down, doesn't exactly spell "on the cusp of winning Lord Stanley".

Wait -- I thought this thread was about the Canucks going forward into the 2010-2011 season?

Well alright....

Such as calling the Canucks the "Sharks 2.0" or something like that.

Canucks were underdogs until the 2009 playoffs at which time they were never favoured, but they were recognized as being a contender. Also, they've never come close to winning the President's Trophy and then choked a bunch of years in a row. That was an absurd statement.

Also, your contention that Luongo is the reason the Canucks lost in the playoffs two years in a row is also absurd. He had one bad game in 2009 against the Hawks. If you even followed the Hawks/Canucks series a couple of months ago you'd know that the Canucks defence was absolutely decimated by injuries in the playoffs. An already thin defence (without Mitchell) were dropping like flies. Hell, I knew when Salo got hit in the nuts that the series was over. We were so decimated that Salo (now known as Semi Salo) played the very next game and you could tell he was hurting with every stride he took,. The f*****'s face was green the entire game, but there was no one else left to put in.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Chairman Maouth

[mjlegend 155]

It proves one thing for certain; that objective opinions on a rival teams forum are worth about as much as what it costs to post them.

Hamhuis, Ballard, Tambellini, Oreskovich and Malhotra instead of Mitchell, Bernier, Wellwood, Demitra, Lukowich and Grabner.

Such vast, wild improvement hasn't been seen since the Kings added Denis Gauthier.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES

FORWARDS

FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)

* Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($2.500m)

Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m) / Cody Hodgson ($1.667m) / Darcy Hordichuk ($0.775m)

* Jannik Hansen ($0.600m) / Victor Oreskovich ($0.575m) / Rick Rypien ($0.550m)

Joel Perrault ($0.510m)

DEFENSEMEN

Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Keith Ballard ($4.200m)

Sami Salo ($3.500m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)

Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m) / * Shane O'Brien ($1.700m)

Aaron Rome ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS

Roberto Luongo ($5.333m) / Cory Schneider ($0.900m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $0.090m

PAYROLL: $59.200m; BONUSES: $0.850m; CAP ROOM: $1.050m

This is with Hanson getting a miniscule $50,000 raise, ignoring the Tambellini deal, turning the Bieksa and Alberts contracts into dust, and giving $3 million to Raymond and $1.7 million to O'Brien, which is roughly what they'll get in arbitration if the Canucks are lucky.

Is this really any better than the team that lost in the second round last year?

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I can't believe Ryan Kesler makes $5 million.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

It is of my opinion, that until they are out of it, the Detroit Red Wings are the team to beat. But what do I know?

[Chairman Maouth 97]

Hamhuis, Ballard, Tambellini, Oreskovich and Malhotra instead of Mitchell, Bernier, Wellwood, Demitra, Lukowich and Grabner.

Such vast, wild improvement hasn't been seen since the Kings added Denis Gauthier.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES

FORWARDS

FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)

* Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($2.500m)

Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m) / Cody Hodgson ($1.667m) / Darcy Hordichuk ($0.775m)

* Jannik Hansen ($0.600m) / Victor Oreskovich ($0.575m) / Rick Rypien ($0.550m)

Joel Perrault ($0.510m)

DEFENSEMEN

Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Keith Ballard ($4.200m)

Sami Salo ($3.500m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)

Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m) / * Shane O'Brien ($1.700m)

Aaron Rome ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS

Roberto Luongo ($5.333m) / Cory Schneider ($0.900m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $0.090m

PAYROLL: $59.200m; BONUSES: $0.850m; CAP ROOM: $1.050m

This is with Hanson getting a miniscule $50,000 raise, ignoring the Tambellini deal, turning the Bieksa and Alberts contracts into dust, and giving $3 million to Raymond and $1.7 million to O'Brien, which is roughly what they'll get in arbitration if the Canucks are lucky.

Is this really any better than the team that lost in the second round last year?

I'm not playing any games when it comes to the cap at this time. Too many unknowns still in play.

Of those players you mentioned, the most valuable (Mitchell) didn't even play in the playoffs so that screws your theory a little right there. The rest did 3rd or 4th line duty and none of them tore it up.

The Canucks have no problem at all scoring, and none of those players you mentioned were major contributors in that area. On the contrary, most of them scored very little. And we have some excellent prospects in the system, some of who could make the team this year. The Canucks offence is the least of their worries.

The Canucks addressed a weakness; not having a mobile enough defence, and in my opinion they did an excellent job at addressing that. As soon as you can get your head around the fact that the Canucks needed to address defence and have given up very little of their potent offence in doing so, the sooner the experts will show you the secret handshake.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Chairman Maouth

[Hockey13Playa 240]

It's a simple answer, no.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I'm going to agree to disagree about the 'nucks having a "potent offense".

[Chairman Maouth 97]

I'm going to agree to disagree about the 'nucks having a "potent offense".

Seriously?

Do you know of a better measuring stick for that than goals per game?

[germanwing 154]

DEFENSEMEN

Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Keith Ballard ($4.200m)

Kevin Bieksa ($3.750m) / Sami Salo ($3.500m)

Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m)

Andrew Alberts ($1.050m) / Aaron Rome ($0.750m)

Ehrhoff wil be No. 1 Defender for the Canucks.

But 5 other players earn more money... that´s not understandable for me...

[Guest ChicagoMan]

Chicago may have lost some depth, but they are the defending champs and are still dangerous and even more if Stahlberg and Beach can step in and contribute a little.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

DEFENSEMEN

Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Keith Ballard ($4.200m)

Kevin Bieksa ($3.750m) / Sami Salo ($3.500m)

Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m)

Andrew Alberts ($1.050m) / Aaron Rome ($0.750m)

Ehrhoff wil be No. 1 Defender for the Canucks.

But 5 other players earn more money... that´s not understandable for me...

It's because Mike Gillis both stole and rescued Erhoff from San Jose. He never got a chance to shine in San Jose and therefore didn't command as much money. Now he's performing to his full potential with a team that's giving him a chance to shine.

Think Mikael Samuelsson in teal.

[Broken 16 381]

Put me in the camp that thinks they won't win with Luongo in net... thanks.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Chicago may have lost some depth, but they are the defending champs and are still dangerous and even more if Stahlberg and Beach can step in and contribute a little.

The defending champs will always have that aura of winning the Cup, but the Hawks have lost a ton of depth that they wouldn't have won without. IMO, they're a playoff team, but have taken a few steps back from a bonafide Cup contender.

Put me in the camp that thinks they won't win with Luongo in net... thanks.

And to think we all wanted Holland to trade Datsyuk for Luongo years ago.