Antti Niemi files for arbitration

[Shaman 713]

They won't be forced to do anything. If he wants too much then they'll let him walk and he'll try the open market. I think the guy will probably get a rude awakening though. I mean we all saw what a pitiful finals performance he had and he's kidding himself if he thinks he wasn't a product of the team in front of him. The FA goalie situation is already flooded with proven goalies and over at HF they were talking about how the guy has played like half a season. If he thinks he's getting Halak money he's dreaming.

With how much players are being over paid this off season, I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered him a fat contract.

[martyrme19 73]

Hey, it happened to New Jersey in 1996, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

my memory doesn't serve me so well....any one have details as to why this happened with NJ? It must've been a wierd hiccup because it didnt take them too long to become relevant again.

[Original-Six 254]

my memory doesn't serve me so well....any one have details as to why this happened with NJ? It must've been a wierd hiccup because it didnt take them too long to become relevant again.

They missed by 2 points. I think it came down to the last game of the season. Its not like they completely fell off and bombed the season.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Original-Six

[stevkrause 1,247]

The long and the short of it, is that the arbitrator is going to award him at LEAST 2.5m a year - they can't even afford that, let alone higher... they are going to most likely lose Hjalmarsson AND Niemi when all is said and done...

Edited July 8, 2010 by stevkrause

[henrik40 76]

If teams were so anxious to sign a goalie to a big contract, why wouldn't they have signed Nabakov (besides the fact he might have been asking for too much)? He is definitely more proven then Niemi, minus the whole winning the cup thing. Although he didn't exactly play stellar in the finals but did the job.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

The long and the short of it, is that the arbitrator is going to award him at LEAST 2.5m a year - they can't even afford that, let alone higher... they are going to most likely lose Hjalmarsson AND Niemi when all is said and done...

If you're the Hawks, who would you rather lose?

[Opie 308]

Sharp.

[stevkrause 1,247]

If you're the Hawks, who would you rather lose?

Sharp.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I'd love to see the reaction of Hawks fans for losing Sharp to sign Niemi.

[Opie 308]

I personally think they should have dealt Sharp to start with, that would have cleared more space to sign some RFA's. Not that it would have helped.

Once they signed their big three, they were all but assured cap hell this season.

Now in order to keep Niemi it will more than likely cost them Hjalmarsson (sp?).

They have 8 forwards, 4 D, 1 goalie signed and 3.7 mil in space.

If Niemi gets anything in Arbitration over 1.5 Hjalm is gone, and even then he may still be gone to an offer sheet.

I am not even sure (didn't do the math) if that is enough money to sign a full roster to league minimums. They may lose Sharp whether or not they want to, 3.9 would more than double their cap space and allow them to fill out a roster.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I'd love to see the reaction of Hawks fans for losing Sharp to sign Niemi.

It's not just for Niemi, but to have been able to keep Hjalmarsson(who they almost certainly will lose now) as well...

EDIT - now that I look over the numbers, there's still a good chance that even THAT won't clear enough space, so that may be a bye-bye to Bolland AS WELL

Edited July 9, 2010 by stevkrause

[eva unit zero 271]

I personally think they should have dealt Sharp to start with, that would have cleared more space to sign some RFA's. Not that it would have helped.

Once they signed their big three, they were all but assured cap hell this season.

Now in order to keep Niemi it will more than likely cost them Hjalmarsson (sp?).

They have 8 forwards, 4 D, 1 goalie signed and 3.7 mil in space.

If Niemi gets anything in Arbitration over 1.5 Hjalm is gone, and even then he may still be gone to an offer sheet.

I am not even sure (didn't do the math) if that is enough money to sign a full roster to league minimums. They may lose Sharp whether or not they want to, 3.9 would more than double their cap space and allow them to fill out a roster.

I have trouble seeing where you are getting your numbers. I know which 8 forwards you mean, but Stalberg and Dowell will also likely be on the roster and are signed and likely to play on the regular roster. Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Scott are all signed. You could also toss Cullimore in there if you like because he's signed too.

So going based on those ten forwards and five defensemen, plus Huet, they have $3.01 in cap space with 10 forwards, 5 defensemen, and 1 goalie. Now let's swap out Huet for Crawford, burying Huet in the minors. Now the Hawks have $7.9m in cap space to fill out those remaining six spots. Hendry, Bickell, Kruger, and Skille plus Hjalmarsson and Niemi. It could get close depending on what they sign for but those are the guys who will likely end up on the roster if they can afford to sign them.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I have trouble seeing where you are getting your numbers. I know which 8 forwards you mean, but Stalberg and Dowell will also likely be on the roster and are signed and likely to play on the regular roster. Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Scott are all signed. You could also toss Cullimore in there if you like because he's signed too.

So going based on those ten forwards and five defensemen, plus Huet, they have $3.01 in cap space with 10 forwards, 5 defensemen, and 1 goalie. Now let's swap out Huet for Crawford, burying Huet in the minors. Now the Hawks have $7.9m in cap space to fill out those remaining six spots. Hendry, Bickell, Kruger, and Skille plus Hjalmarsson and Niemi. It could get close depending on what they sign for but those are the guys who will likely end up on the roster if they can afford to sign them.

"bury Huet in the minors" is not an option, unless they never want to be a free agent destination again...

[eva unit zero 271]

"bury Huet in the minors" is not an option, unless they never want to be a free agent destination again...

Ok, your options are:

1) Bury Huet in the minors and keep Niemi and Hjalmarsson.

2) Lose Niemi AND Hjalmarsson.

I'll take option 1, thank you.

The "they'll never be a free agent destination again" is overstated, if not complete BS. Plus, it's Huet's own fault he lost his starting job to a rookie. If Huet had played like a starter, they wouldn't be paying out to Niemi would they?

Huet played himself into a situation where his cap hit is a liability for the team. If that drives off other FAs, they're probably not the ones the Hawks are interested in anyway because the Hawks don't want anymore big contracts who play themselves down the depth chart.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Ok, your options are:

1) Bury Huet in the minors and keep Niemi and Hjalmarsson.

2) Lose Niemi AND Hjalmarsson.

I'll take option 1, thank you.

The "they'll never be a free agent destination again" is overstated, if not complete BS. Plus, it's Huet's own fault he lost his starting job to a rookie. If Huet had played like a starter, they wouldn't be paying out to Niemi would they?

Huet played himself into a situation where his cap hit is a liability for the team. If that drives off other FAs, they're probably not the ones the Hawks are interested in anyway because the Hawks don't want anymore big contracts who play themselves down the depth chart.

Granted, they may take option one - but it is a bad precedent, also keep in mind that as an owner, essentially EATING 5m is not just a second thought...

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

The "they'll never be a free agent destination again" is overstated, if not complete BS. Plus, it's Huet's own fault he lost his starting job to a rookie. If Huet had played like a starter, they wouldn't be paying out to Niemi would they?

Not to mention Khabibulin last season.

[Buppy 1,720]

Ok, your options are:

1) Bury Huet in the minors and keep Niemi and Hjalmarsson.

2) Lose Niemi AND Hjalmarsson.

I'll take option 1, thank you.

The "they'll never be a free agent destination again" is overstated, if not complete BS. Plus, it's Huet's own fault he lost his starting job to a rookie. If Huet had played like a starter, they wouldn't be paying out to Niemi would they?

Huet played himself into a situation where his cap hit is a liability for the team. If that drives off other FAs, they're probably not the ones the Hawks are interested in anyway because the Hawks don't want anymore big contracts who play themselves down the depth chart.

3) Do the right thing and buy themselves out of the stupid contract they never should have given him in the first place.

[henrik40 76]

I didn't read through all the posts, but does anyone know when his arbitration hearing is? I'm really excited for the outcome of that.

[stevkrause 1,247]

3) Do the right thing and buy themselves out of the stupid contract they never should have given him in the first place.

ding. ding. ding.

That is still 2.5 more to their cap, but they gave the contract, they have to accept the responsibility... keep in mind also, that if they "bury him in the minors", that the NHLPA could file a grievance and block the move...

I didn't read through all the posts, but does anyone know when his arbitration hearing is? I'm really excited for the outcome of that.

I have to imagine it won't be for a few weeks... I'm REALLY intrigued to see what he'll be awarded - my guess is 2.5m MINIMUM

[Opie 308]

I honestly think he ends up somewhere between 2 and 2.5 mil.

Arbitration hearings are at the end of the month I think.

[55fan 5,133]

ding. ding. ding.

That is still 2.5 more to their cap, but they gave the contract, they have to accept the responsibility... keep in mind also, that if they "bury him in the minors", that the NHLPA could file a grievance and block the move...

Considering that he played below expectations, would the NHLPA have grounds? I mean, I could see them complaining if someone like Bryz were to get buried (not that this will happen- I was just picking the name of a reasonably good goalie who has lived up to expectations out of the air to use as a comparison).

In this case, Huet was expected to be the starter, but was beaten by Niemi. If Cross (is that right? third guy on the depth chart? or do I have the wrong name in my head?) beats Huet out in camp, wouldn't they have grounds to bury him if they can't trade him?

And isn't "beating him in camp" subjective enough that they could go that route?

Edited July 9, 2010 by 55fan

[stevkrause 1,247]

Considering that he played below expectations, would the NHLPA have grounds? I mean, I could see them complaining if someone like Bryz were to get buried (not that this will happen- I was just picking the name of a reasonably good goalie who has lived up to expectations out of the air to use as a comparison).

In this case, Huet was expected to be the starter, but was beaten by Niemi. If Cross (is that right? third guy on the depth chart? or do I have the wrong name in my head?) beats Huet out in camp, wouldn't they have grounds to bury him if they can't trade him?

And isn't "beating him in camp" subjective enough that they could go that route?

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Cory Crawford... regardless though, they gave him the contract and never really gave him a chance to be a starter, from day one he was competing with (arguably) a future HOF'er in Khabibulin - if there is ANY position in hockey where confidence matters the most, it's between the pipes, they're a quirky bunch and if a goaltender doesn't feel his team is 100% behind him, he doesn't play as well...

I could still very well see the NHLPA filing (and winning) a grievance of this nature, especially because Crawford still has minor league options...

EDIT - If anything, they'd probably be the smartest to trade Niemi's rights while his stock is still high and they are almost certainly in a "re-tooling" phase, give the job back to Huet and tell him from day 1 - this is your job, earn that contract - then if Crawford beats him out, you buy him out in the off season....

Edited July 9, 2010 by stevkrause

[Doggy 130]

Considering that he played below expectations, would the NHLPA have grounds? I mean, I could see them complaining if someone like Bryz were to get buried (not that this will happen- I was just picking the name of a reasonably good goalie who has lived up to expectations out of the air to use as a comparison).

In this case, Huet was expected to be the starter, but was beaten by Niemi. If Cross (is that right? third guy on the depth chart? or do I have the wrong name in my head?) beats Huet out in camp, wouldn't they have grounds to bury him if they can't trade him?

And isn't "beating him in camp" subjective enough that they could go that route?

Yeah I doubt the NHLPA will do anything. I know they're slightly different circumstances, but they certainly didn't do anything for Nylander last season. Washington easily circumvented most of his $4.9m cap hit.

BTW it's Crawford you're thinking of.

[55fan 5,133]

Crawford. Geesh. Sucks to get old. I'm losing it.

Thank you both for correcting me.

I'd forgotten about Khabi. He was expected to start. Of course, when it was still theoretical, I think people would have said Huet over Niemi due to experience.

Good point that Crawford still has options. Still, if they bury Huet without signing another goaltender, I don't know what the NHLPA would/could do about it. OTOH, if they signed a cheap replacement who was inferior, and then replaced him, maybe they'd have a case.

Edited July 9, 2010 by 55fan

[Buppy 1,720]

I honestly think he ends up somewhere between 2 and 2.5 mil.

Arbitration hearings are at the end of the month I think.

I have hard time believing he would be awarded substantially less than Halak, Rinne, and Lehtonen. Those are the only comparable players eligible for comparison. And his stats were pretty similar. That would put him in the 3.5-4 million range. I think their only hope is that he wants to stay in Chicago and they get him signed before they get to arbitration.

Considering that he played below expectations, would the NHLPA have grounds? I mean, I could see them complaining if someone like Bryz were to get buried (not that this will happen- I was just picking the name of a reasonably good goalie who has lived up to expectations out of the air to use as a comparison).

In this case, Huet was expected to be the starter, but was beaten by Niemi. If Cross (is that right? third guy on the depth chart? or do I have the wrong name in my head?) beats Huet out in camp, wouldn't they have grounds to bury him if they can't trade him?

And isn't "beating him in camp" subjective enough that they could go that route?

Did he really perform below expectations though? He was the starter, in that he played and started more games than Niemi. He just lost the job by the playoffs. His save% was down, but his GAA is on par with his career numbers. He really hasn't been bad in Chicago. And it's not his fault that the Hawks paid him twice what he was worth.

I don't know that the PA would or could do anything, but you can't blame for Huet for not being worth $5.6M. He never has been, and Chicago had no good reason to expect him to be. He had a great handful of games in Washington, and Tallon grossly overpaid for him. Now they should have to pay the price.

Unfortunately, they won't, and there probably won't be any negative consequences.