Opie 308 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 Some players (like J-Ho) are not as good in the AHL as they are in the NHL, motivation is severly lacking for some players when they are in the AHL for that long. Not saying that is why Kindl has underperformed (in the eyes of some) in the AHL, but give him ice time and a chance, if the Wings can sign a Hnidy or McKee let him be the 7th for the season. Rotate him in for Big E or for injuries during the season and see what he has. Smith has plenty of time, no need to rush him up this year unless he looks absolutely phenomenal in camp. Let him play with men for a season and see what he has to offer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 Yeah - he's getting better, but so far he's not a .5 ppg guy, and he's still a minus player (that is if that stat is important/relevant)...Improvement - yes; is he an NHL calibre Dman right now - dunno about that, and some might question if he'll ever be. GP G A Pts +/- PIM PPG PtsPG 2009-10 Grand Rapids AHL 73 3 30 33 -4 59 1 0.45 2008-09 Grand Rapids AHL 78 6 27 33 -14 76 3 0.42 2007-08 Grand Rapids AHL 75 3 14 17 -34 82 2 0.23 I corrected my original post and said .43 ppg player - ALSO - you just proved my point by posting the stats - if you don't see the drastic improvement in the numbers alone(not to mention the intangibles from actually watching him live and how much better he looks than every other AHL player on the ice) then I don't know how much clearer to make it to you... oh... did I mention... HE'S ONLY 23!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 (edited) Some players (like J-Ho) are not as good in the AHL as they are in the NHL, motivation is severly lacking for some players when they are in the AHL for that long. Not saying that is why Kindl has underperformed (in the eyes of some) in the AHL, but give him ice time and a chance, if the Wings can sign a Hnidy or McKee let him be the 7th for the season. Rotate him in for Big E or for injuries during the season and see what he has. Smith has plenty of time, no need to rush him up this year unless he looks absolutely phenomenal in camp. Let him play with men for a season and see what he has to offer. ex-f'ing-actly Edited July 9, 2010 by stevkrause Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 You, and your shouting - jeez Sorry, it just drives me nuts when people are willing to run a guy out of town before he's even been given a chance (especially a high draft pick) and then people come back and get their feathers ruffled because guys like Quincey have gone on to be very good NHL players... we have an embarrassment of riches in our pipeline with our high quality development program and scouts and it's because these players are developed properly that we are able to be a perennial powerhouse in this league, even since the cap-era began... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 No need to panic! We have Janik! esteef 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 (edited) I understand where you're coming from, but I'm of the opinion that not every player drafted in the 1st round will end up wearing the Winged Wheel; Jesse Wallin, Max Kuznetsov, Anders Ericsson, and Yan Golubovsky are examples with guys having alot of potential who more or less fizzeled out at the NHL level. One promising note is that our drafted players these past several years have had a better than average chance of making to the bigs, and have proven themselves valuable additions indeed; Fischer, Kronwall, Franzen, Howard, and Hudler are prime examples. I'm a realist - a pessimist - I see the glass 1/2 empty...I'm the guy that'll look at guys like Kindl, Ericsson, and Smith and most likely question their ability to play at the NHL level...Like I said earlier - I hope I'm wrong on these guys. Eriksson has had a relatively productive NHL career and was involved in a trade that got us Chelios after a couple decent years here, I wouldn't exactly call that a bust - he wasn't a top 2 player, but still served a purpose and of course they were going to let him go for Chelios at that time, Wallin had injury issues and Golubovsky was a gamble from day one with character issues - I don't think any of these examples are relative to a player like Kindl who has done everything right from day one, works his ass off and is a class act... I would go as far as to say he has top 2 potential, but that just needs to be seen... but I'd rather it be seen here, than somewhere else Edited July 9, 2010 by stevkrause Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 I would just like to point out Kindl played pretty badly for the majority of the last two seasons in Grand Rapids. You all should watch more GR games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 No need to panic! We have Janik! esteef ever since my top 3 FA d-men have fallen off the board and Lilja appears headed elsewhere, I have stated I would like to see us roll with Janik as the 6/7th d-man, unless Hnidy can be brought in... I would just like to point out Kindl played pretty badly for the majority of the last two seasons in Grand Rapids. You all should watch more GR games. I watched quite a few over the last few years and saw DRASTIC improvements in each of those seasons... he also looked pretty damn good out there last year, so I don't know which games you were watching?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 No need to panic! We have Janik! esteef Oh mannn... I vaguely remember the day we kept going with stuff like that. Wish I could easily find that thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 Oh mannn... I vaguely remember the day we kept going with stuff like that. Wish I could easily find that thread. You mean this one? Classic! 2 Zeowingsfan and titanium2 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 You mean this one? Classic! Haha. You're amazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 I watched quite a few over the last few years and saw DRASTIC improvements in each of those seasons... he also looked pretty damn good out there last year, so I don't know which games you were watching?? Every game? Me and drumnj stream them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 Every game? Me and drumnj stream them. What about his game didn't you like? His positioning and decision making were the only things that were cause for concern, but both of those have drastically improved over the last 2 years... if you've watched that many games, I'm genuinely interested to know what you saw that I didn't, because I've watched at least 25-30 games a year for the last 3 years and saw major improvements... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 What about his game didn't you like? His positioning and decision making were the only things that were cause for concern, but both of those have drastically improved over the last 2 years... if you've watched that many games, I'm genuinely interested to know what you saw that I didn't, because I've watched at least 25-30 games a year for the last 3 years and saw major improvements... It might not be a valid assessment of his overall game but he quite frequently looked panicked as if he didn't know what he was doing. It's like someone said in a news article the other day that in the pros you should know what you're going to do with the puck before you get it. It's that kind of play that makes some Wings fans think, "Ehh... Maybe this guy doesn't have it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 I don't like the idea of Ericsson being the vet on any pairing, I think it will hurt his development as well as the other member of the pairing. A Hnidy or McKee adds a vet presence and a very solid D man, plus Hnidy is a tough SOB! Let Smith play the year in GR, IMO! exactly. that's what i said before, just with a bit of a twist. the wings like to roll lines...all 3 D pairs can play 20 mins kronwall - stuart (keep those 2 together-chemistry) lids - kindl (teach the kid first hand how to play the game both ways) rafalski - ericsson (learn how to be the QB on the ice from raf) then everyone is fresh all year, and hopefully ericsson and kindl take their game to the next level that everyone wants them at from playing with lids and raf for a full season. maybe even rotate them between the 2 vets, but not play them together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 It might not be a valid assessment of his overall game but he quite frequently looked panicked as if he didn't know what he was doing. It's like someone said in a news article the other day that in the pros you should know what you're going to do with the puck before you get it. It's that kind of play that makes some Wings fans think, "Ehh... Maybe this guy doesn't have it." no offense, but this question was directed towards uk_redwing, as he stated he has watched a lot of games and you, yourself, even stated that you haven't seen that many... It's not a coincidence that he was called up last year, or that his +/- has improved by more than a 50% jump (while playing in increased roles) each year in GR - from what I've seen - he does have "IT" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 I don't believe anyone here is questioning the fact that he's improved at the AHL level - just that if he's capable of playing at the NHL level...It appears that I'm not the only one here. Of course, that's always the question with prospects - the point is (where this whole debate started), is that there is still WAY too much potential to even suggest exposing him to waivers, where we would lose him for nothing for sure... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 What about his game didn't you like? His positioning and decision making were the only things that were cause for concern, but both of those have drastically improved over the last 2 years... if you've watched that many games, I'm genuinely interested to know what you saw that I didn't, because I've watched at least 25-30 games a year for the last 3 years and saw major improvements... For some reason I always seem to think of him of like a tall Brett Lebda in the defensive zone. Prone to giveaways and passes that make you think "why did he do that?" and goals will be conceeded where it seems like hes skating around aimlessly in a Brett Lebda fashion. Offensively he's been fine, just in the defensive zone he can have games where he's just appalling. Other times he can be ok...but nothing great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HankthaTank 1,100 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 For some reason I always seem to think of him of like a tall Brett Lebda in the defensive zone. *MEH* just discouraged the s*** out of me on him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 9, 2010 *MEH* just discouraged the s*** out of me on him... Well...maybe not always...but every other game he does look a little out of depth...even for AHL level. That said he has other games where he takes everything in his stride. He's inconsistant in the extreme. 1 Shaman reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted July 10, 2010 Ok I guess Stevkrause missed the first part of my post: If Smith WINS a roster spot. I'd rather the wings ice the best possible team out of camp, then to give a spot to someone based on draft order/age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted July 10, 2010 I think regardless of how good Smith looks in the pre-season camp he still needs a year to adapt to playing in a men's league. Detroit never rushes their prospects, and I don't see why this would be any different. I'd rather wait 2 years and get a Top 4 Brendan Smith. As far as Kindl goes, he's been pretty inconsistent at the AHL level, as others have said. The thing that always caught my attention was the mention that perhaps he just needs a more skilled partner to play with. He hasn't exactly been paired with the most talented defensemen in the past couple years, and it could be why he was exposed so much. I think at the very least he's worth taking a look at in the NHL before we just toss him away; the guy was considered to be a Top 4, mobile, puck mover who played with an edge. If he can recapture just some of that he'd be a serviceable defenseman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted July 10, 2010 I think after Ericsson's drop in quality most of us are skeptical of Kindl, too. He was highly touted when he first got here, but since he hasn't impressed. Whether he's been good or bad, he simply hasn't impressed. He'll start the season out of fairness and to see what he has, but I don't think he'll finish the season a Red Wing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted July 10, 2010 wow... never even considered that an option... I think it would be downright stupid to carry him as a 6/7th dman, when he could log major minutes in GR and REALLY develop into a top 2 guy - if we don't sign another veteran D man, I'm perfectly content with giving Janik a serious chance and rolling with it... So true, but the good thing is you can send him down without clearing waviers. I would have him be the 8th guy behind Janik and if we need him to play call him up. Smith I think is going to end up being alot like Scott Niedermyer. Defense coming from his feet. I would really welcome the chance for him to learn from Lidstrom about proper positioning. Him and Jakub are going to be staples for us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
