• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
xtrememachine1

Sharks sign RFA Niklas Hjalmarsson

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

I would rather not, considering Datsyuk is paid to be an elite defensive playmaker, and Hossa is paid to be an elite defensive goal scorer. Which of those have you seen more of the past three years?

Sure I would love to have Hossa on this team, but the guy was unable to produce offensively for Detroit and Chicago. Also considering he has had much more to play for than virtually all of his teammates the past two years.

Datsyuk has averaged nearly 30 goals a year over the past 6 seasons. He's much more than just a playmaker. Likewise, Hossa is more than just a goal scorer, averaging over 40 assists for his last 6 seasons. Both are paid to be elite two-way players. That's what they both are, but both struggle some scoring in the playoffs compared to their regular seasons. Over the past three years I'd say they're pretty close to even.

It doesn't take a genius a simply watch both players and see that Datsyuk is the more reliable player. Numbers aside, Datsyuk is simply better in almost every category. Especially in the playoffs. Hossa is on is ass swimming 10X more than Datsyuk.

Accusing people of being "jilted-lover-cry-ass-Penguin-fans" just because they acknowledge that Datsyuk is obviously the better playoff performer in recent years is silly. It just makes you sound like a jilted-cry-ass-Hossa-fan.

Yes, Datsyuk is a better overall player. That wasn't the point. The point was that Datsyuk also struggles to score in the playoffs relative to his regular season production. That is an undeniable fact. It is also a fact that his relative struggles are even worse than Hossa's. As is often said about Hossa, he's paid to produce and he hasn't. Yes, he contributes in other ways, but so does Hossa.

You saying that Datsyuk has been obviously better, and the double standard of praising Datsyuks non-scoring contributions while ignoring Hossa's is what makes me call you a jilted lover. You're a blatant homer. You're mad at Hossa because he left. If Datsyuk had left you'd be saying the same things about him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Datsyuk is a better overall player. That wasn't the point. The point was that Datsyuk also struggles to score in the playoffs relative to his regular season production. That is an undeniable fact. It is also a fact that his relative struggles are even worse than Hossa's. As is often said about Hossa, he's paid to produce and he hasn't. Yes, he contributes in other ways, but so does Hossa.

You saying that Datsyuk has been obviously better, and the double standard of praising Datsyuks non-scoring contributions while ignoring Hossa's is what makes me call you a jilted lover. You're a blatant homer. You're mad at Hossa because he left. If Datsyuk had left you'd be saying the same things about him.

It seems pretty obvious to me that Hossa'a slide is much worse than Datsyuk's slide. Doesn't mean that you have to agree. Personally, I'm glad Hossa isn't on the Wings. Despite your repeated attempts to make them equal. As far as I'm concerned, he was paid way too much to get knocked on his ass repeatedly. Again, you don't have to agree. Maybe a multi-million dollar, back-checking mercenary is worth as much as homegrown magician to you. Free country. But I wonder which player would impact the Wings more by being out of the lineup? Pretty sure you know the answer to that.

When's the last time Datsyuk almost cost his team a very important (basically life and death) playoff game with a selfish decision?

Edited by Broken 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems pretty obvious to me that Hossa'a slide is much worse than Datsyuk's slide. Doesn't mean that you have to agree. Personally, I'm glad Hossa isn't on the Wings. Despite your repeated attempts to make them equal. As far as I'm concerned, he was paid way too much to get knocked on his ass repeatedly. Again, you don't have to agree. Maybe a multi-million dollar, back-checking mercenary is worth as much as homegrown magician to you. Free country. But I wonder which player would impact the Wings more by being out of the lineup? Pretty sure you know the answer to that.

When's the last time Datsyuk almost cost his team a very important (basically life and death) playoff game with a selfish decision?

And it's pretty obvious to me that you have an irrational dislike for Hossa because he left. There were a lot of factors for our loss in the finals two years ago. But you just want to make Hossa the scapegoat because he left. You don't have to admit it.

Datsyuk, statistically speaking, is relatively worse in the playoffs. That's a simple fact. My original response was to someone saying that no one else came close to Hossa's drop-off from regular to post season. I pointed out someone who is not just close but in fact worse.

I was never comparing Datsyuk to Hossa. I was comparing their relative drops in production. You're the one that wants to make it a "who's better" argument. Both players score less in the playoffs. That is a simple, undeniable fact. That is all I was saying.

Now you just want to jump in and say something bad about Hossa, while exempting Datsyuk from criticism for exactly the same thing. That's what makes you a homer and bitter little cry ass over Hossa leaving. But whatever, free country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet you dove right into a discussion you didn't understand to simulataneously criticize Hossa and defend Datsyuk for the exact same thing.

Seems to me that someone who was actually indifferent wouldn't have bothered to respond. Or at the very least would have defended Datsyuk without the added Hossa criticism.

Well shouldn't Hossa have played close to his potential considering the amount of motivation and rest the guy had in comparison to his peers (Datsyuk had been in a WCF and SCF the previous two years while Hossa played a whopping 4 games in the 07 playoffs). Datsyuk at least had the excuse of complacency and fatigue from winning a cup the year prior and playing almost two full post-season runs.

But it's ok man. It's not your fault. Hossa didn't leave because of you. It's not your fault. Just let it out man, it'll help you get over it. We're all here for you. It's not your fault.

This is just childish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how much do you guys think Niemi will get at arbitration? I'm reading opinions from Chicago fans and it just blew my mind that they think he should be awarded the same amount that Josh Harding just got from Minnesota.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how much do you guys think Niemi will get at arbitration? I'm reading opinions from Chicago fans and it just blew my mind that they think he should be awarded the same amount that Josh Harding just got from Minnesota.

What do you think he deserves? Throughout the playoffs we were all laughing at how bad he was and now he's suddenly worth something? The guy played half a season and then had an average at best playoff performance. I think Chicago would be dumb to bring him back at all for more than what Harding made. If arbitration awards him more than $2m I'll crack up...and then laugh harder if Chicago pays it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think he deserves? Throughout the playoffs we were all laughing at how bad he was and now he's suddenly worth something? The guy played half a season and then had an average at best playoff performance. I think Chicago would be dumb to bring him back at all for more than what Harding made. If arbitration awards him more than $2m I'll crack up...and then laugh harder if Chicago pays it.

Yeah but you also have to look at the perception. He replaced a goalie with a $5.625M cap hit and took the starting position from him (yeah Huet is grossly overpaid but still - also I realize he can't bring up Huet's salary in arbitration) then they had the confidence to ride him as their goalie going into the playoffs and he was the guy in goal when the Hawks won their first Cup in over 50 years. That is a lot to present to an arbiter and also would be a psychological blow to fans to lose the guy in goal when you won the Cup. If it is less than $2.5 I think they have to match it for PR sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but you also have to look at the perception. He replaced a goalie with a $5.625M cap hit and took the starting position from him (yeah Huet is grossly overpaid but still - also I realize he can't bring up Huet's salary in arbitration) then they had the confidence to ride him as their goalie going into the playoffs and he was the guy in goal when the Hawks won their first Cup in over 50 years. That is a lot to present to an arbiter and also would be a psychological blow to fans to lose the guy in goal when you won the Cup. If it is less than $2.5 I think they have to match it for PR sake.

vernon_hoists_cup_1997.jpg

Edited by Doc Holliday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And there's still a bigger difference between Datsyuk's regular and playoff performance. And while Datsyuk does do things other than score, so does Hossa. Stop acting like a bunch of jilted-lover-cry-ass-Penguin-fans about Hossa. Both struggle scoring in the playoffs compared to the regular season. Both contribute a lot in other areas; defensively, creating opportunities, and pressuring the opposition. Both are elite players, and any team would love to have either one of them.

Datsyuk has been over a ppg twice the last 3 playoffs. Hossa has once while playing with the best player in the world as his centerman. All the while Datsyuk is much better defensively and one playoff was playing with a very bad charlie horse iirc.

Datsyuk is not as big of a choker in playoffs as Hossa is especially when you take into account the last 3 years, Hossa has played with the team he think will win the cup and should've been by far and away teh best player on the ice, but he hasn't been. Not even close

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

vernon_hoists_cup_1997.jpg

Not really the same at all in my mind for a couple of reasons. For one, the majority of the Red Wings team wasn't being dismantled before their fans eyes, it is the culmination of everyone that they lost that would make it harder on the fans. Also, as Vernon himself said "I was brought in here for a couple of things. . . [t]o win a Stanley Cup and to help Chris Osgood develop into a front-line NHL goalie."That is not the Hawks situation at all. The Wings were extremely high on the talent of their young goalie, Osgood played 47 games compared to Vernon's 33, had a better GAA, better SV%, and 6 shutouts compared to none for Vernon. Vernon was grooming Osgood for the future and they felt Osgood was ready to be that future. The Hawks have a $5M+ goalie who got benched for not playing well and not much else, the only goalie in their system even mentioned is Crawford who has a grand total of 8 regular season NHL games under his belt (2 in 05-06, 5 in 07-08, and 1 in 09-10) which has amounted to 1 total NHL win. Trading Vernon when you think you have something better in Ozzy (especially when part of what you brought Vernon in to do is train Ozzy) is not the same as not signing Niemi when your options are using Huet who Niemi beat out and cost you $5M plus or bringing in your AHL goalie with no real NHL experience, especially with all the Hawks have already lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but you also have to look at the perception. He replaced a goalie with a $5.625M cap hit and took the starting position from him (yeah Huet is grossly overpaid but still - also I realize he can't bring up Huet's salary in arbitration) then they had the confidence to ride him as their goalie going into the playoffs and he was the guy in goal when the Hawks won their first Cup in over 50 years. That is a lot to present to an arbiter and also would be a psychological blow to fans to lose the guy in goal when you won the Cup. If it is less than $2.5 I think they have to match it for PR sake.

I guess I perceive it another way then.

To me all he did was take the starting position away from a guy who was so bad and overpaid that he's getting demoted to the minors next year. And they HAD to ride him going into the playoffs because they were already cap crunched as it was and couldn't afford to bring in anyone else. And you could also argue that the fans might think that with retaining Hjalmarsson they have most of their dominant defense back that will cover whatever rookie goalie's ass that the bring in, just like the defense did for Niemi as a rookie this past year.

Either way the arbiter would be crazy to award an unproven goalie that played on a stacked team several million. If the arbiter says he's worth more than $2m tops it would be facepalm worthy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Datsyuk is not as big of a choker in playoffs as Hossa is especially when you take into account the last 3 years, Hossa has played with the team he think will win the cup and should've been by far and away teh best player on the ice, but he hasn't been. Not even close.

His motivation in 2008 looked great against the Wings and in the playoffs in general. In 2009, he looked nervous and lost. He looked good at times during the '10 playoffs, scoring only 3 goals but setting up a few big ones. Still, not enough goal scoring for what he was paid and brought in to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I perceive it another way then.

To me all he did was take the starting position away from a guy who was so bad and overpaid that he's getting demoted to the minors next year. And they HAD to ride him going into the playoffs because they were already cap crunched as it was and couldn't afford to bring in anyone else. And you could also argue that the fans might think that with retaining Hjalmarsson they have most of their dominant defense back that will cover whatever rookie goalie's ass that the bring in, just like the defense did for Niemi as a rookie this past year.

Either way the arbiter would be crazy to award an unproven goalie that played on a stacked team several million. If the arbiter says he's worth more than $2m tops it would be facepalm worthy.

I think you make good points. Who knows what will happen either way the Hawks and their fans will spin it as great news. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you make good points. Who knows what will happen either way the Hawks and their fans will spin it as great news. :lol:

I guess it's only natural. If the best team to come along in 49 years was ripped apart for the following season I'd be clinging to every glimmer of hope too.

Edited by Tommy_Like_Wingy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crymson

Datsyuk has been over a ppg twice the last 3 playoffs. Hossa has once while playing with the best player in the world as his centerman. All the while Datsyuk is much better defensively and one playoff was playing with a very bad charlie horse iirc.

Datsyuk is not as big of a choker in playoffs as Hossa is especially when you take into account the last 3 years, Hossa has played with the team he think will win the cup and should've been by far and away teh best player on the ice, but he hasn't been. Not even close

Datsyuk's numbers were driven down by his injury during the '06 playoffs and by the team's general inability to get pucks past Michelin Man in '03. They were further reduced by his injury last playoff season. Datsyuk was healthy in '07 and '08, and he was nigh-unstoppable in those playoffs; he was also quite good in this past April-May.

Edited by Crymson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well shouldn't Hossa have played close to his potential considering the amount of motivation and rest the guy had in comparison to his peers (Datsyuk had been in a WCF and SCF the previous two years while Hossa played a whopping 4 games in the 07 playoffs). Datsyuk at least had the excuse of complacency and fatigue from winning a cup the year prior and playing almost two full post-season runs.

Datsyuk has been over a ppg twice the last 3 playoffs. Hossa has once while playing with the best player in the world as his centerman. All the while Datsyuk is much better defensively and one playoff was playing with a very bad charlie horse iirc.

Datsyuk is not as big of a choker in playoffs as Hossa is especially when you take into account the last 3 years, Hossa has played with the team he think will win the cup and should've been by far and away teh best player on the ice, but he hasn't been. Not even close

Datsyuk's numbers were driven down by his injury during the '06 playoffs and by the team's general inability to get pucks past Michelin Man in '03. They were further reduced by his injury last playoff season. Datsyuk was healthy in '07 and '08, and he was nigh-unstoppable in those playoffs; he was also quite good in this past April-May.

This is what I'm talking about. You'll all make any excuse in the world to explain Datsyuk's scoring troubles in the playoffs, but in Hossa's case the only possible explanation you'll consider is 'lazy and sucks'. You even deny him credit for his best season, attributing all his success to Crosby. The bitterness is obvious, even a little funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this