Dan Carcillo re-signs with Philly 1 yr $1.075

[Tr!PoD#19 524]

Jody Shelley was signed because at the time,re-signing Arron Asham seemed highly unlikely.He's basically a replacement for Asham.

Jody Shelley is quite a downgrade.

Also, don't they have Riley Cote on their roster?

Edited July 13, 2010 by Tr!PoD#19

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

It really is a downgrade.Making twice of what he should be making.I've been wondering about Cote too,he was scratched basically all of last year.He only played in a handful of games.It'll probably be the same story with him next year if he stays in Philly.The Flyers are looking to cut salaries...his contract would be easy to move..

[newfy 695]

Jody Shelley is quite a downgrade.

Also, don't they have Riley Cote on their roster?

They do but he hardly ever played because he is god awful at hockey and at the same time not a very good fighter. He'll fight anyone and his fights are always entertaining but he's not scaring anyone.

Shelley is a solid 4th line player who isn't a liability and is a much better fighter.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Good deal for him and them.

[hooon 1,089]

If Bert is on teh third line then there is an opening in the top 6, so someone will be moved up which makes Carcillo likely a third liner, Helm and Carcillo are pretty close for me, Carcillo has more potential to score but Helm is better on the PK and is much faster, Hudler obviously will be on the third before him but thats what I already said. With Hudler and a healthy Cleary he's not on our third. Without these he probably is and this past season he would've been.

As for the whole Philly thing, they just almost won the cup and did much better then a healthy playoff, Detroit team did so I wouldn't be knocking them too much.

How on earth do you figure Carcillo has more scoring potential than Helm? Carcillo has never scored more than 24 points in a season, the same amount that was matched last season by Helm who was a rookie. Helm will continue to grow as he develops his hands, and his offensive potential FAR outweighs Carcillo's. If, as you say, Carcillo was a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd liner last year, surely he could have outscored a rookie Darren Helm if he had more scoring potential?

Looking at our current roster, assuming Modano is out of the picture, and one of Eaves/Miller, give me a lineup that features Carcillo on the third line, because I just can't picture it.

Edited July 13, 2010 by hooon

[newfy 695]

How on earth do you figure Carcillo has more scoring potential than Helm? Carcillo has never scored more than 24 points in a season, the same amount that was matched last season by Helm who was a rookie. Helm will continue to grow as he develops his hands, and his offensive potential FAR outweighs Carcillo's. If, as you say, Carcillo was a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd liner last year, surely he could have outscored a rookie Darren Helm if he had more scoring potential?

Looking at our current roster, assuming Modano is out of the picture, and one of Eaves/Miller, give me a lineup that features Carcillo on the third line, because I just can't picture it.

Have you seen Helms hands? Have you seen Carcillos? Carcillo seems to me like the type of guy that is in the role of a tough guy, pest that if he got more scoring pressure put on him, he would produce. Carcillo has bounced around on teams like Phoenix and Philly who don't really have coaching like the wings do. Helm is a great third liner but who do you put in a shootout line up if theyre on your team? Carcillor or Helm, its gonna be Carcillo.

As for next season Carcillo on the third I already said it wouldn't happen with a healthy Cleary and Hudler back but last year it would've

Homer Datsyuk Bert

Flip Z Franzen

Cleary Helm Carc

Eaves Draper/Abby Miller

Miller definitely doesn't beat out Carc, Eaves could give him competition but he gets hurt so Carc would be up there for sure while Eaves is out. Even at times last year the way Cleary was playing Carcillo may beat him out of that spot. He has similar point totals to a lot of our bottom 6 but noone on the bottom 6 hits and fights like he does. And Helm is only 2 years younger then Carcillo but was given time to refine his offensive game i the AHL, CArcillo was brought up to Phoenix in an enforcer role at a young age so he didn't get to really work on his scoring touch.

Edited July 13, 2010 by newfy

[hooon 1,089]

Have you seen Helms hands? Have you seen Carcillos? Carcillo seems to me like the type of guy that is in the role of a tough guy, pest that if he got more scoring pressure put on him, he would produce. Carcillo has bounced around on teams like Phoenix and Philly who don't really have coaching like the wings do. Helm is a great third liner but who do you put in a shootout line up if theyre on your team? Carcillor or Helm, its gonna be Carcillo.

As for next season Carcillo on the third I already said it wouldn't happen with a healthy Cleary and Hudler back but last year it would've

Homer Datsyuk Bert

Flip Z Franzen

Cleary Helm Carc

Eaves Draper/Abby Miller

Miller definitely doesn't beat out Carc, Eaves could give him competition but he gets hurt so Carc would be up there for sure while Eaves is out. Even at times last year the way Cleary was playing Carcillo may beat him out of that spot. He has similar point totals to a lot of our bottom 6 but noone on the bottom 6 hits and fights like he does. And Helm is only 2 years younger then Carcillo but was given time to refine his offensive game i the AHL, CArcillo was brought up to Phoenix in an enforcer role at a young age so he didn't get to really work on his scoring touch.

You can't blame Philly for his lack of production in one post, and then in another say "As for the whole Philly thing, they just almost won the cup and did much better then a healthy playoff, Detroit team did so I wouldn't be knocking them too much."

The key word I was pointing out in your other post was the word POTENTIAL. Helm's potential for scoring is way higher, as he has only had one season in the NHL (if you recall it was a season where every single player's production was waay down on the Wings) and I would expect Helm to be up around 20 goals sometime in the next several years, if not next year. As for Carcillo, I don't believe he will ever break 20.

You are blaming his low production on the fact that he has been in enforcer roles... but... that's what he is. You're playing the 'what-if' game, which doesn't seem relevant. Any team that signs Carcillo signs him for the same exact reasons Philly did.

And Carcillo over Cleary? I'm by no means a huge Cleary guy... but come on. I understand you are talking about a severely injured/rusty Cleary, but even still.

Edit: spelling

Edited July 13, 2010 by hooon

[HankthaTank 1,100]

And Carcillo over Cleary? I'm by no means a huge Cleary guy... but come on. I understand you are talking about a severely injured/rusty Cleary, but even still.

Edit: spelling

This... I mean I know I am a huge Cleary guy but this Cleary being the new whipping boy for the Wings with being really so consistent for us. Just gotta wonder what some people are really watching.

Edited July 13, 2010 by HankthaTank

[Buppy 1,720]

Have you seen Helms hands? Have you seen Carcillos? Carcillo seems to me like the type of guy that is in the role of a tough guy, pest that if he got more scoring pressure put on him, he would produce. Carcillo has bounced around on teams like Phoenix and Philly who don't really have coaching like the wings do. Helm is a great third liner but who do you put in a shootout line up if theyre on your team? Carcillor or Helm, its gonna be Carcillo.

As for next season Carcillo on the third I already said it wouldn't happen with a healthy Cleary and Hudler back but last year it would've

Homer Datsyuk Bert

Flip Z Franzen

Cleary Helm Carc

Eaves Draper/Abby Miller

Miller definitely doesn't beat out Carc, Eaves could give him competition but he gets hurt so Carc would be up there for sure while Eaves is out. Even at times last year the way Cleary was playing Carcillo may beat him out of that spot. He has similar point totals to a lot of our bottom 6 but noone on the bottom 6 hits and fights like he does. And Helm is only 2 years younger then Carcillo but was given time to refine his offensive game i the AHL, CArcillo was brought up to Phoenix in an enforcer role at a young age so he didn't get to really work on his scoring touch.

For what we were aiming for, Leino and Williams were far better suited to our third line than Carcillo would have been.

With all the injuries, Carcillo probably would have made our 3rd (or even 2nd at times) line, but then so did Draper. Doesn't mean he's a third line player. He's a solid 4th liner. I'd take him over Miller, but that's about it.

[newfy 695]

This... I mean I know I am a huge Cleary guy but this Cleary being the new whipping boy for the Wings with being really so consistent for us. Just gotta wonder what some people are really watching.

<- Check my username. I'm not one of those ppl who just hate on Cleary at all. I said a beat up Cleary like this year is very close or on par with Carcillo

You can't blame Philly for his lack of production in one post, and then in another say "As for the whole Philly thing, they just almost won the cup and did much better then a healthy playoff, Detroit team did so I wouldn't be knocking them too much."

The key word I was pointing out in your other post was the word POTENTIAL. Helm's potential for scoring is way higher, as he has only had one season in the NHL (if you recall it was a season where every single player's production was waay down on the Wings) and I would expect Helm to be up around 20 goals sometime in the next several years, if not next year. As for Carcillo, I don't believe he will ever break 20.

You are blaming his low production on the fact that he has been in enforcer roles... but... that's what he is. You're playing the 'what-if' game, which doesn't seem relevant. Any team that signs Carcillo signs him for the same exact reasons Philly did.

And Carcillo over Cleary? I'm by no means a huge Cleary guy... but come on. I understand you are talking about a severely injured/rusty Cleary, but even still.

Edit: spelling

Youre saying that I'm playing what if games, but right now your argument is all based on potential. I think with the enforcer role thing, if Carcillo iss at down with a coach and was told something like, we need you to step up and play the PP because we have injuries and he just puts his mind to it, he will score a lot more then Helm.

And I was saying I wouldn't say he was only a second liner because he was on Philly, because that team was more successful then ours and had a very good team.

[mjlegend 155]

It's not the fighting that pisses me off about Carcillo, it's the diving and the yapping. It got terrible int he playoffs, and I hoped for Philly's sake they'd have looked elsewhere for agitation.

Philly doesn't have a very good team. They squeaked into the playoffs on the last day of the season on a shootout win. Then, they beat the Jersey chokers, the Boston chokers and the tired Habs. They had the easiest road to the finals in decades because Montreal took out everyone good.

Seriously, if they finish 12th in the conference next year, it wouldn't surprise me one bit. The bottom feeders in the conference like Atlanta and Tampa will be better next season, and I even think the Hurricanes will be better next year, moving to 10th or 11th.

[hooon 1,089]

<- Check my username. I'm not one of those ppl who just hate on Cleary at all. I said a beat up Cleary like this year is very close or on par with Carcillo

Youre saying that I'm playing what if games, but right now your argument is all based on potential. I think with the enforcer role thing, if Carcillo iss at down with a coach and was told something like, we need you to step up and play the PP because we have injuries and he just puts his mind to it, he will score a lot more then Helm.

And I was saying I wouldn't say he was only a second liner because he was on Philly, because that team was more successful then ours and had a very good team.

My argument is based on potential because you asserted that Carcillo has more scoring potential than Helm, which I simply find ridiculous.

No coach would ever sit down with him and say that, because that is not why he is hired to play for a team. His role is very clearly defined, why would ANY team want to do a complete 180 with a player who already has established attributes in the hope that he would possibly be a 20 goal scorer instead of 6-12?

We're both leading this argument well into irrelevancy at this point, but I don't understand all these what-if assumptions and over-evaluating of a career 4th liner.

I'll take Helm and Cleary over Carcillo any day, you can have him.

Edited July 14, 2010 by hooon

[Guest Four]

Bulls***! He signed for 1.7m in my NHL10

[HankthaTank 1,100]

<- Check my username. I'm not one of those ppl who just hate on Cleary at all. I said a beat up Cleary like this year is very close or on par with Carcillo

Touchè with the username. I love it. But in regards to Clears its really more or less me thinking people just need to pull the E brake on all the bashing (not implying you were just moreso bitching and complaining because there is no hockey happening and I want Clears to show what he does when healthy). But it wouldn't be LGW or Hockeytown without these types of feelings.

[newfy 695]

Touchè with the username. I love it. But in regards to Clears its really more or less me thinking people just need to pull the E brake on all the bashing (not implying you were just moreso bitching and complaining because there is no hockey happening and I want Clears to show what he does when healthy). But it wouldn't be LGW or Hockeytown without these types of feelings.

Yeah there has been a lot of ppl forgetting the beast he is in the playoffs when he is healthy and that he is one of the, if not the most versatile player in the NHL. It is annoying for sure to see people say he's a waste of space when he was playing on 2 torn meniscus, some ppl just don't get it I guess lol

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Yeah there has been a lot of ppl forgetting the beast he is in the playoffs when he is healthy and that he is one of the, if not the most versatile player in the NHL. It is annoying for sure to see people say he's a waste of space when he was playing on 2 torn meniscus, some ppl just don't get it I guess lol

Well its put up or shut up time on the Clears thing this season. He will prove his worth and maybe crawl back up to the 2nd line or so. I really feel confident this season will be one of his best in the winged wheel. And as we know he can be such a key part and almost forgotten piece to the Cup puzzle.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Cleary is on his way out of town if he doesn't produce next year.Does he have an NTC?

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Cleary is on his way out of town if he doesn't produce next year.Does he have an NTC?

Yes he does but can be waived at any point. I realize I am a broken record but I think it goes without saying... Healthy Clears in 08-09 = Scary good and I feel like that is just what we will see. Ready to eat crow if I have to on this one.

Edited July 14, 2010 by HankthaTank

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Yeah he was awesome in 2008-2009.As well as 2007-2008.I still don't think he looks right with the visor on.I've always said that.But anyways,I'm hoping he does well this year.I've always liked the way he plays.

[newfy 695]

Yes he does but can be waived at any point. I realize I am a broken record but I think it goes without saying... Healthy Clears in 08-09 = Scary good and I feel like that is just what we will see. Ready to eat crow if I have to on this one.

I think he's going to blow us away next season to be honest. He knows he has something to prove and I have faith in him to prove it. It'll be a sad day if that work horse leaves Detroit for me. He's one of the hardest working players this team has seen in a long time