Trade idea between Wings & Hawks

[Dimaline312000 51]

I wouldn't mind possibly trading Cleary for Sharp but I would like to keep Ritola and just see if he can come and be effective on the Wings NHL Roster. As far as I'm concerned Meech can be traded or let go for Cap Space.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Yet Joey Macdonald had far superior AHL numbers in his first 3 seasons than Jimmy Howard did in his 3 AHL seasons. Where are they now?

And when did Filppula put up 50+ points? I never said Ritola is going to be better than Filppula's "projected" stats, which he never even reached at this point. I said fits a Filppula mold. 10-12 goals, 30-35 points. Be solid as hell defensively, can be put out in any key situation, savvy with the puck / stick work, can execute take aways that would make Pavel ******* Datsyuk blush. He's going to be a solid NHLer. He'll likely be a career 3rd liner considering Wings depth, but would develop into a 2nd liner on most other teams.

If you want to bump this thread in 3 years, I'm all for it. The kid has sick talent and I for one see him becoming a solid player. The kind of player LGWs will cry about in a few years if Holland trades him prematurely. (see: Quincey / Leino)

I wasn't using Howard's numbers to say that his AHL stats projected him to have the season he did last year- they didn't. However, his AHL save percentages were close to that of the top-20 AHL goalies this year ,so he certainly wasn't a bad AHL goaltender. http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_goalies&season_id=30

If you expand Flips season this year to 82 games, he would have hit 50+ points. I think the 'Flip mold' as you described it is at least a 40+ point player. Ritola hit 42 points his past two seasons in the AHL- Flip had 70 in his AHL year.

I'm not saying Ritola won't score 40+ points in the NHL, but I believe the odds are against him. We agree that he has the tools, but I think he is less likely to put them together in the NHL than you do. I wouldn't be surprised to see him putting up solid points playing in the SEL in three years. In most threads I've suggested trading Miller (not Ritola), because I want to see if he can develop. However, I do believe that Mursak and Tatar can develop into better players, so this may (should) be Ritola's only year with the Wings unless he does develop.

[Guest Heaten]

I wasn't using Howard's numbers to say that his AHL stats projected him to have the season he did last year- they didn't. However, his AHL save percentages were close to that of the top-20 AHL goalies this year ,so he certainly wasn't a bad AHL goaltender. http://theahl.com/st...es&season_id=30

Never said Howard was "bad", but who would have thought he would have outplayed Martin Broduer and be in the Top 5 with Miller? Also, how many of those top-20 AHL goalies last season ever become a solid #1? Not too many, I suspect.

If you expand Flips season this year to 82 games, he would have hit 50+ points. I think the 'Flip mold' as you described it is at least a 40+ point player. Ritola hit 42 points his past two seasons in the AHL- Flip had 70 in his AHL year.

Or Filppula could have hit a dry spell. Flip scored a career high of 40 points when he played some time with Hossa.

To response to Ritola's 42 points in two seasons in the AHL, see the Howard example above.

I'm not saying Ritola won't score 40+ points in the NHL, but I believe the odds are against him.

Give Ritola some time on a Hossa line and see what happens.

We agree that he has the tools, but I think he is less likely to put them together in the NHL than you do. I wouldn't be surprised to see him putting up solid points playing in the SEL in three years. In most threads I've suggested trading Miller (not Ritola), because I want to see if he can develop. However, I do believe that Mursak and Tatar can develop into better players, so this may (should) be Ritola's only year with the Wings unless he does develop.

I'm not sure about Mursak. He had 2 goals in 2008/09 and then had a crazy season last year. Tatar looks like the closest thing to a "sure thing" goal scorer we have in GR right now. Not sure why you are bringing those two guys into the conversation. They suppose to be the future just like Ritola is suppose to be the future.

Draper

Holmstrom

Bertuzzi

Maltby (may already be gone)

Will be gone the next two years -

Who knows what Miller and Eaves want to do after this season.

Cleary and Filppula's contracts end the year after that

Datsyuk ends 2014/15 and will be 35 years old.

So maybe keeping young solid prospects like Ritola isn't such a bad thing.

Ritola is going to be a solid 3rd liner. He'll carry the puck into the zone and set up the play for a quality scoring chance. He sees the ice extremely well. He'll outwork anyone in the corners and is tenacious on the puck. He's a playmaker who is defensively sound. If Wings are playing Penguins on the road, I would feel more content if Ritola get stuck out there against Crosby and Malkin over Miller or Eaves. Ritola is a player who can match up against any line.

I'd love to see a 3rd line of Hudler-Ritola-Cleary. That looks great on paper. You have net presence in Cleary, you have a sniper in Hudler and you have Ritola who is savvy with the puck for that sneaky pass to create a quality scoring chance.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Flip scored a career high of 40 points when he played some time with Hossa.

By "some time" you mean about 14% of the time he was with Hossa, right? If he played that whole year with Hossa he probably would have scored 60 points at least.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

That would be the dumbest thing Chicago would do. haha. It's wishful thinking though.

[Guest Heaten]

By "some time" you mean about 14% of the time he was with Hossa, right? If he played that whole year with Hossa he probably would have scored 60 points at least.

Not sure how you are calculating 14%, but I'll play. 14% = 3 points, which means Filppula has 37 points without Hossa. My projection of Ritola is a 30-35 point guy on the 3rd line. Put Ritola on the 2nd line with Hossa for 14% of the time, BOOM! he scores 38 points. Pretty close to FIlppula's career high 40 points.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Heaten

[Z and D for the C 712]

Not sure how you are calculating 14%, but I'll play.

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?selForward=DETFILPPULA%2CVALTTERI&period=ALL&situation=EV&games=2008-2009%3AR%3A99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

But pretty much after that, I have no idea what on earth you're talking about.

[Guest Heaten]

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go

But pretty much after that, I have no idea what on earth you're talking about.

It's called math

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Never said Howard was "bad", but who would have thought he would have outplayed Martin Broduer and be in the Top 5 with Miller? Also, how many of those top-20 AHL goalies last season ever become a solid #1? Not too many, I suspect.

Or Filppula could have hit a dry spell. Flip scored a career high of 40 points when he played some time with Hossa.

To response to Ritola's 42 points in two seasons in the AHL, see the Howard example above.

Give Ritola some time on a Hossa line and see what happens.

I'm not sure about Mursak. He had 2 goals in 2008/09 and then had a crazy season last year. Tatar looks like the closest thing to a "sure thing" goal scorer we have in GR right now. Not sure why you are bringing those two guys into the conversation. They suppose to be the future just like Ritola is suppose to be the future.

Draper

Holmstrom

Bertuzzi

Maltby (may already be gone)

Will be gone the next two years -

Who knows what Miller and Eaves want to do after this season.

Cleary and Filppula's contracts end the year after that

Datsyuk ends 2014/15 and will be 35 years old.

So maybe keeping young solid prospects like Ritola isn't such a bad thing.

Ritola is going to be a solid 3rd liner. He'll carry the puck into the zone and set up the play for a quality scoring chance. He sees the ice extremely well. He'll outwork anyone in the corners and is tenacious on the puck. He's a playmaker who is defensively sound. If Wings are playing Penguins on the road, I would feel more content if Ritola get stuck out there against Crosby and Malkin over Miller or Eaves. Ritola is a player who can match up against any line.

I'd love to see a 3rd line of Hudler-Ritola-Cleary. That looks great on paper. You have net presence in Cleary, you have a sniper in Hudler and you have Ritola who is savvy with the puck for that sneaky pass to create a quality scoring chance.

I think you are looking at my Howard argument the wrong way. I was saying that his performance in the AHL suggested he could be a decent NHL goalie. It is basically irrelevant to the Ritola argument anyways. I do hope that Howard can continue his excellent play from last year.

The Howard example does not convince me that Ritola will develop. I would bet there are more players who score 40 points in the AHL that never score 50 in the NHL, than there are players who do. Can it happen? Yes. Is the probability of it >.5? Not likely.

Mursak interests me because of his improvement. Ritola's stagnation worries me in that he may have hit a wall- although I hope this is just in GR. While all three are the future, there aren't enough roster slots for them all the be playing on the Wings next year without trades or having no current players re-signed. This is further complicated by the fact that next year there are zero top-9 players scheduled to leave the team.

Next year the Wings will have:

ZDH

Franzen-Flip-Bert

Huds-Abby-Cleary

Someone-Helm- Someone

You can switch the lines a bit to make room in the top-9, but there isn't room for all of Tatar, Mursak, and Ritola. The above is assuming the Wings don't re-sign anyone.

Would you rather see a third line of Cleary-Ritols-Huds or a line of Cleary-Abby-Huds?

I'm not sure what you disagree with me about. I agree that Ritola has the tools to be a good player, but I don't think it is likely (p<.5) that he will become a 'Flip type' player. He just hasn't shown that he can put it all together at the AHL level, let alone the NHL level.

Edited July 14, 2010 by WorkingOvertime

[LeftWinger 4,953]

forget modano, that lineup would be unstoppable with sharp!

I agree, but unfortunately the odds of getting Sharp are worse than me winning the lottery... Especially since it seems like our odds of getting Mike are dwindling as well, but hey, they offered Maltby a contract, soya never know!

[Guest Heaten]

I think you are looking at my Howard argument the wrong way. I was saying that his performance in the AHL suggested he could be a decent NHL goalie. It is basically irrelevant to the Ritola argument anyways. I do hope that Howard can continue his excellent play from last year.

The Howard example does not convince me that Ritola will develop. I would bet there are more players who score 40 points in the AHL that never score 50 in the NHL, than there are players who do. Can it happen? Yes. Is the probability of it >.5? Not likely.

Because what a player does in the AHL doesn't translate to what they can and cannot do in the NHL. I've used a few examples.

Mursak interests me because of his improvement. Ritola's stagnation worries me in that he may have hit a wall- although I hope this is just in GR. While all three are the future, there aren't enough roster slots for them all the be playing on the Wings next year without trades or having no current players re-signed. This is further complicated by the fact that next year there are zero top-9 players scheduled to leave the team.

Next year the Wings will have:

ZDH

Franzen-Flip-Bert

Huds-Abby-Cleary

Someone-Helm- Someone

You can switch the lines a bit to make room in the top-9, but there isn't room for all of Tatar, Mursak, and Ritola. The above is assuming the Wings don't re-sign anyone.

Tatar and Mursak won't be on the Wings this season, nor will they be on the Wings full time in 2012. They'll likely replace Holmstrom and Bertuzzi. Plus Draper and Maltby will be gone.

Would you rather see a third line of Cleary-Ritols-Huds or a line of Cleary-Abby-Huds?

LGW poster 'Drake' (who seems to understand the cap and waiver stuff) said Abby is eligible to spend another year in Grand Rapids. We can call him up if someone gets injured. I say go with Cleary-Ritola-Hudler.

I'm not sure what you disagree with me about. I agree that Ritola has the tools to be a good player, but I don't think it is likely (p<.5) that he will become a 'Flip type' player. He just hasn't shown that he can put it all together at the AHL level, let alone the NHL level.

And I'm saying, based on what I saw and believe, he will become a 'Flip type' player. I'll be more than happy to if someone bumps this thread in 3 years to tell me I'm wrong. I don't believe Ritola will score 40+ points this season, but I do think he'll develop into a Filppula, maybe a tad bit less offensively, but a tad bit more defensively. He will be better than Abby, Helm, Miller and Eaves. No, I'm not psychic, just really intuitive and have been pretty good at projecting players through-out the years.

The kid is ready for the big league with skilled NHL wingers.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Because what a player does in the AHL doesn't translate to what they can and cannot do in the NHL. I've used a few examples.

Tatar and Mursak won't be on the Wings this season, nor will they be on the Wings full time in 2012. They'll likely replace Holmstrom and Bertuzzi. Plus Draper and Maltby will be gone.

LGW poster 'Drake' (who seems to understand the cap and waiver stuff) said Abby is eligible to spend another year in Grand Rapids. We can call him up if someone gets injured. I say go with Cleary-Ritola-Hudler.

And I'm saying, based on what I saw and believe, he will become a 'Flip type' player. I'll be more than happy to if someone bumps this thread in 3 years to tell me I'm wrong. I don't believe Ritola will score 40+ points this season, but I do think he'll develop into a Filppula, maybe a tad bit less offensively, but a tad bit more defensively. He will be better than Abby, Helm, Miller and Eaves. No, I'm not psychic, just really intuitive and have been pretty good at projecting players through-out the years.

The kid is ready for the big league with skilled NHL wingers.

I would be willing to bet that there is a significant, positive correlation between how many points a players scores in the AHL and how many points they score in the NHL. To say there isn't would be similar to saying that junior point totals have no bearing on a players eventual offensive development. You are picking out exceptions- there are plenty- not the general trend.

I didn't suggest that Mursak or Tatar would be spending any time in the NHL this year. I do believe that Mursak will be the first call-up though. Next year, they will both be competing for roster spots if they continue to develop.

Abby will not be sent down to GR this year unless something ridiculous happens. Abby has earned his spot, and he will not re-sign with a two-way contract.

In most GR games I watched this season, Ritola was not playing center. Is he a better center than wing?

How about a friendly wager? Abby is my favorite prospect being called up this year, and you say Ritola is better than him. This year, whoever (Ritola or Abby) scores more points for the Red Wings, than one of us buys the other a player t-shirt with their player's name. For example, if Ritola outscores Abby, I buy you a Ritola shirt.

[magicaldatsyuk 6]

Tatar and Mursak won't be on the Wings this season, nor will they be on the Wings full time in 2012. They'll likely replace Holmstrom and Bertuzzi.

I would be surprised if they don't get a spot on the roster next season, I think 3 years in the AHL isn't necessary at all for Tatar especially if he has a breakout season this year for the griffins. if I had to choose I would definitely choose mursak and Tatar over ritola, not saying ritola is bad but he doesn't have the raw talent of these other two players. also I would be very surprised and delighted if ritola gets more points then Abby next season

[RedWingsFan1003 1]

Who's to say Cleary wouldn't waive his NTC and return to the team who drafted him and where he began his career? This trade makes sense for both teams. I don't understand why most people replying say "it will never happen" and basically saying that I'm crazy for even proposing the trade. Chicago would be trading for a 40-45 point player, a depth defenseman, and Mattias Ritola, who has more upside than Marty Reasoner, a player as part of the package Chicago received Dustin Byfuglien, Brent Sopel, and Ben Eager for. Chicago would be trading one player for three that would take up virtually equal amounts of salary. Ritola looks to be a 25-30 point player, while Meech's career potential is a depth defenseman, and Cleary, as said before, is a 40-45 points per season player. How is this not an equal trade?

[Guest Crymson]

Who's to say Cleary wouldn't waive his NTC and return to the team who drafted him and where he began his career? This trade makes sense for both teams. I don't understand why most people replying say "it will never happen" and basically saying that I'm crazy for even proposing the trade. Chicago would be trading for a 40-45 point player, a depth defenseman, and Mattias Ritola, who has more upside than Marty Reasoner, a player as part of the package Chicago received Dustin Byfuglien, Brent Sopel, and Ben Eager for. Chicago would be trading one player for three that would take up virtually equal amounts of salary. Ritola looks to be a 25-30 point player, while Meech's career potential is a depth defenseman, and Cleary, as said before, is a 40-45 points per season player. How is this not an equal trade?

It's a totally ridiculous trade. They wouldn't trade Sharp to a division rival; they could trade him to another team for a player who has far less of a cap hit than the three you've mentioned; they're looking for cap relief; and the trade would be very uneven to begin with. As for Reasoner, your point has no merit; the Hawks made that trade for cap relief, and Reasoner was just a footnote.

If you honestly think that what you're proposing is a realistic, reasonable trade, then you seriously need to learn more about the NHL.

[eva unit zero 271]

Who's to say Cleary wouldn't waive his NTC and return to the team who drafted him and where he began his career? This trade makes sense for both teams.

This trade does not make sense for Cleary or the Hawks.

Cleary likely gets a better role which provides him the opportunity to get a better contract; but his contract has three years remaining so his age will prevent any kind of 'cashing in' assuming he even plays past that point.

Chicago would basically be trading Sharp for Cleary. Ritola is no better than the stockpile of young forwards Chicago has, and Meech is no better than any number of veteran defensemen Chicago could pick up in his place.

Sharp is, flat out, a better player than Cleary. That's not up for debate. He's also younger. So the Hawks would be making a trade with their biggest rival, and more importantly the biggest threat to them repeating as division champions, a team they play several times a year, and they would be trading the better, younger player away without getting anything specific to fill any need back.

Chicago makes that trade, and it's time to fire Bowman.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Hmm..

Hudler centered the first line in Grand Rapids at 21 and carried his left winger, a 28-year old Donald MacLean to a 56 goal, 88 point season, with Tomas Kopecky's 32 goal, 72 point season on the opposite wing. Hudler posted 60 assists and 96 points that season to lead the team. MacLean retired 3 years later, having played only 41 NHL games in his career.

The next season Hudler played the same number of games for the Red Wings, with 15 goals and 25 points.

By comparison, Ritola was fourth in scoring on the Griffins behind Jeremy Williams, Pat Rissmiller (started season with Hartford), and Jan Mursak. Justin Abdelkader and Michael Nylander also played partial seasons in the AHL (20+ games) and had better PPG than Ritola. Kris Newbury played most of his season with Grand Rapids, finishing with Hartford and more points than Ritola.

So among all of Ritola's teammates last season, he was the seventh best offensive player. Doug Janik even had a comparable PPG, as did Tomas Tatar and Brad May.

So yes, Ritola would likely perform better with better teammates, Abdelkader's AHL offense projects to 28 goals and 60 points over 82 games, while his NHL offense from the same season projects to 5 goals and 10 points over 82 games.

You can say all you want about "Ritola's the next Filppula!" and "He'll do better with better teammates!" but you have to realize something; Filppula put up 70 points as the second line center in Grand Rapids at age 21; the same year Hudler posted his 96; and was in the NHL at 22. It was his first season in Grand Rapids, and he played 74 of the 77 games he played there, playing 3 the next year. Filppula put up 17 in his rookie season at age 22, and 36 the next year. If Ritola is "the next Filppula" he's either going to suddenly have an explosion in development, or he's a few years behind Flip's development age-wise.

Ritola is a good prospect, but Filppula is a 26 year-old top-six forward. Ritola has a lot of work to do if he wants to be more than a role-player at the NHL level, and it's unlikely he'll be a Red Wing a year from now given his size, style, and the forward prospects in the Wings' system.

Great post. Ritola has the tools, but he's far from putting them together like Flip, Huds, etc.

[RedWingsFan1003 1]

Okay, how about this trade: D Derek Meech, RW Dan Cleary, RW Jan Mursak, and our first and second round picks in 2011 for Patrick Sharp and a 2011 1st or 2nd Round Pick?

Dan Cleary: $2,800,000

Jan Mursak: $646,111

Derek Meech: $500,000

----------------

$3,946,111

Detroit would then have 20 players under contract for $56,742,045. The salary cap in 2010-11 is $59.4 Million. They would have $2,657,955 left to sign Helm and Abdelkader. With that, here's the proposed roster:

Line 1: Datsyuk -- Franzen -- Sharp

Line 2: Zetterberg -- Holmstrom -- Filppula

Line 3: Hudler -- Bertuzzi -- Abdelkader

Line 4: Helm -- Eaves -- Draper

13th Forward: Miller

Pairing 1: Lidstrom -- Rafalski

Pairing 2: Krowall -- Stuart

Pairing 3: Ericsson -- McKee

7th Defenseman: Kindl

Goalie 1: Jimmy Howard

Goalie 2: Chris Osgood

The problem is the Wings would be left with just $32,955 cap space if they also signed Jay McKee. Their roster would be stacked and filled out, but with that slim amount of cap space, it almost warrants another trade. And would Ken Holland be willing to take that gamble to land Sharp and sign McKee. Now if they don’t sign McKee, then the Wings will go into camp with Kindl as their 6^th Dman and $857,955 of cap space left. Ken Holland always likes to keep a cushion of $500,000-$750,000 under the cap. The Wings will go into camp with their top five defensemen set with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Krowall, Stuart, and Ericsson. They are expected to carry seven defensemen with the final two spots going to Meech, Brendan Smith, Doug Janik, or Jakub Kindl.

Salaries of those four Defensemen:

Meech: $500,000

Smith: $875,000

Kindl: $883,333

Janik: $512,500

We shall wait and see Kenny work his magic, but damn would it be nice to land Patrick Sharp.

[Guest Heaten]

^ holy overpayment.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

^ holy overpayment.

I can't say I know anything about Mursak so that might sway the argument, but Meech + Cleary for Sharp would be incredible and therefore would never happen. Meech is an easily replaceable spare part, and while I certainly love Cleary and all the things he does, Sharp is just a flat out better hockey player. He is like Chicago's version of Franzen.

[Guest Crymson]

Okay, how about this trade: D Derek Meech, RW Dan Cleary, RW Jan Mursak, and our first and second round picks in 2011 for Patrick Sharp and a 2011 1st or 2nd Round Pick?

It's never going to happen. This is not a video game.

[RedWingsFan1003 1]

It's never going to happen. This is not a video game.

So what are you telling me? That this isn't a realistic trade or Chicago wouldn't do it because it's an in-division proposed trade? I fully believe this is a realistic trade and as far as in-division, remember March 23, 1999? The day Chicago traded Chelios to Detroit. I understand Chicago weren't contenders at that point, but they have their hands tied with their cap issues. Now is the time to take advantage of that. If the in-division part is the reason for your argument, then I fully understand. But Cleary has a NTC too. He'd have to waive it, this of course is assuming he would. But think about it.

Chicago Receives: Dan Cleary, Derek Meech, Jan Mursak, 1st Round Pick (2011), 2nd Round Pick (2011)

Detroit Receives: Patrick Sharp, 1st or 2nd Round Pick (2011)

Chicago would pick up three players including a top-six or top-nine forward in Cleary that are equal to Sharp's salary, plus a pick.

Detroit would land a top-six forward plus a pick.

It is a trade that benefits both sides. Chicago then would have 19 Players signed for $60,457,701. They are expected to send Huet to the AHL, which relieves them of his $5.625 Million Cap Hit. At that point, the Hawks would have 18 Players signed for $54,832,701 and $4,567,299 cap space to work with. Detroit then would have 19 players signed for $56,742,045 with $2,657,955 cap space left to sign Helm and Abdelkader.

Look at these lines for Detroit if the deal did happen.

Datsyuk - Sharp - Franzen

Zetterberg - Holmstrom - Filppula

Hudler - Helm - Bertuzzi

Eaves - Abdelkader - Miller/Draper

On D, I think we have to throw Kindl in there. Like Ericsson last year, there will be some growing pains no doubt about it, but for Detroit in the long run, it will be good for them. And with that offense, you can afford to throw Kindl in there. Then at the trade deadline, you can acquire a D'man if Kindl isn't performing. They also have options that will be in Grand Rapids, such as Brendan Smith and Doug Janik.

Of course, the Wings are set in goal with Jimmy and Ozzy. But both are free agents after the season. However, getting Sharp and being able to resign Jimmy is possible because Draper's $1.583M Salary is off the books. And if Ozzy did come back, he would accept a lesser deal. If he didn't come back, the Wings would most likely promote Thomas McCollum to the backup job, who is signed through 2012-13 at a cap hit of $816,667.

Jimmy's Cap Hit: $716,666

Ozzy's Cap Hit: $1,416,666

Draper's Cap Hit: $1,583,333

-----------------------------

Total Cap Freed: $3,716,665

That would be plenty to resign Jimmy(say $2.25M Hit per), and Ozzy(say $1M) if he comes back. After this upcoming season, Tomas Tatar($870K) will be ready to join the Wings, taking Draper's spot. Jonathan Ericsson is also a free agent, and Nick may retire. If he does, then we'd look to the market. The best UFA D'man on the market next season is Chara, although there are RFA's such as Drew Doughty, Brent Seabrook, and Shea Weber, who the Wings could sign to an offer sheet and may get lucky.

But that's a season from now. I'm looking to now. I think we'll end up signing Modano, but that trade I believe is realistic when you look deeper into it.

[Hank Dats 'N Homer 81]

So what are you telling me? That this isn't a realistic trade or Chicago wouldn't do it because it's an in-division proposed trade? I fully believe this is a realistic trade and as far as in-division, remember March 23, 1999? The day Chicago traded Chelios to Detroit. I understand Chicago weren't contenders at that point, but they have their hands tied with their cap issues. Now is the time to take advantage of that. If the in-division part is the reason for your argument, then I fully understand. But Cleary has a NTC too. He'd have to waive it, this of course is assuming he would. But think about it.

Chicago Receives: Dan Cleary, Derek Meech, Jan Mursak, 1st Round Pick (2011), 2nd Round Pick (2011)

Detroit Receives: Patrick Sharp, 1st or 2nd Round Pick (2011)

Chicago would pick up three players including a top-six or top-nine forward in Cleary that are equal to Sharp's salary, plus a pick.

Detroit would land a top-six forward plus a pick.

It is a trade that benefits both sides. Chicago then would have 19 Players signed for $60,457,701. They are expected to send Huet to the AHL, which relieves them of his $5.625 Million Cap Hit. At that point, the Hawks would have 18 Players signed for $54,832,701 and $4,567,299 cap space to work with. Detroit then would have 19 players signed for $56,742,045 with $2,657,955 cap space left to sign Helm and Abdelkader.

Look at these lines for Detroit if the deal did happen.

Datsyuk - Sharp - Franzen

Zetterberg - Holmstrom - Filppula

Hudler - Helm - Bertuzzi

Eaves - Abdelkader - Miller/Draper

On D, I think we have to throw Kindl in there. Like Ericsson last year, there will be some growing pains no doubt about it, but for Detroit in the long run, it will be good for them. And with that offense, you can afford to throw Kindl in there. Then at the trade deadline, you can acquire a D'man if Kindl isn't performing. They also have options that will be in Grand Rapids, such as Brendan Smith and Doug Janik.

Of course, the Wings are set in goal with Jimmy and Ozzy. But both are free agents after the season. However, getting Sharp and being able to resign Jimmy is possible because Draper's $1.583M Salary is off the books. And if Ozzy did come back, he would accept a lesser deal. If he didn't come back, the Wings would most likely promote Thomas McCollum to the backup job, who is signed through 2012-13 at a cap hit of $816,667.

Jimmy's Cap Hit: $716,666

Ozzy's Cap Hit: $1,416,666

Draper's Cap Hit: $1,583,333

-----------------------------

Total Cap Freed: $3,716,665

That would be plenty to resign Jimmy(say $2.25M Hit per), and Ozzy(say $1M) if he comes back. After this upcoming season, Tomas Tatar($870K) will be ready to join the Wings, taking Draper's spot. Jonathan Ericsson is also a free agent, and Nick may retire. If he does, then we'd look to the market. The best UFA D'man on the market next season is Chara, although there are RFA's such as Drew Doughty, Brent Seabrook, and Shea Weber, who the Wings could sign to an offer sheet and may get lucky.

But that's a season from now. I'm looking to now. I think we'll end up signing Modano, but that trade I believe is realistic when you look deeper into it.

As much as i dont like to agree with Crymson on, well anything, this trade really makes no sense. I dont see any reason why chicago would make this trade. Meech really has no value for the Hawks nor does Mursak, so i dont see why they would be trading for them. Meech is a below average defensemen at best, and would still probably end up being a 7th D-men even in Chicago. Not to mention with his contract, he would probably be best as trade bait, but with his low salary he wouldnt be traded due to the cap relief. He doesnt make the team better at all, and really just seems like a a guy you threw in to increase the value that chicago would be getting in return for Sharp, even though adding Meech and Mursak to Cleary dont really increase the value at all. Not to mention chicago, the defending champs would never trade Sharp to a division rival who has the potential already to finish first in the division....especially after the Haweks have already lost so much.

Plus you are saying they are making this trade for "cap relief", but then you say that Huet is going to be sent down. That clears up almost 6 million right there which is much more cap relief than getting rid of sharp PLUS they dont lose the offense that Sharp brings to the table.

It really comes down to the fact that Cleary for Sharp does not make Chicago better, and honestly doesnt really give them a whole lot of cap relief. Its a completely one sided trade. A team looking to repeat its championship is not going to trade away one of its best players to a division rival that could prevent them from even making the playoffs, especially with all the loss that Chicago has experienced.

I feel like you are looking at this trade as a red wings fan, and not as a smart GM. Dont get me weong, I like Sharp alot and would want him on this team because he can score goals, but there is just no way Chicago is willing to lose another 2nd liner without getting something beneficial in return, and this trade really gives them nothing that improves their team.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Hank Dats 'N Homer

[Buppy 1,720]

As much as i dont like to agree with Crymson on, well anything, this trade really makes no sense. I dont see any reason why chicago would make this trade. Meech really has no value for the Hawks nor does Mursak, so i dont see why they would be trading for them. Meech is a below average defensemen at best, and would still probably end up being a 7th D-men even in Chicago. Not to mention with his contract, he would probably be best as trade bait, but with his low salary he wouldnt be traded due to the cap relief. He doesnt make the team better at all, and really just seems like a a guy you threw in to increase the value that chicago would be getting in return for Sharp, even though adding Meech and Mursak to Cleary dont really increase the value at all. Not to mention chicago, the defending champs would never trade Sharp to a division rival who has the potential already to finish first in the division....especially after the Haweks have already lost so much.

Plus you are saying they are making this trade for "cap relief", but then you say that Huet is going to be sent down. That clears up almost 6 million right there which is much more cap relief than getting rid of sharp PLUS they dont lose the offense that Sharp brings to the table.

It really comes down to the fact that Cleary for Sharp does not make Chicago better, and honestly doesnt really give them a whole lot of cap relief. Its a completely one sided trade. A team looking to repeat its championship is not going to trade away one of its best players to a division rival that could prevent them from even making the playoffs, especially with all the loss that Chicago has experienced.

I feel like you are looking at this trade as a red wings fan, and not as a smart GM. Dont get me weong, I like Sharp alot and would want him on this team because he can score goals, but there is just no way Chicago is willing to lose another 2nd liner without getting something beneficial in return, and this trade really gives them nothing that improves their team.

I think the point your missing is that Chicago may have to move Sharp regardless. Without Huet, they currently have about 4.5 million to get 2 goalies, 2 forwards, and 2 defensemen. If they want to keep Niemi or get someone like Turco, it will cost a big chunk of that free space. They might be able to get something cheap enough, and/or shorten the roster to 21, but it would be tight. Getting three players for the price of one would at least help them fill their roster.

Not saying it could happen. NTC and the rivalry being the obvious barriers. It's also certainly possible that Chicago could get a better deal in terms of immediate returns. But it really wouldn't be a bad deal for them, all things considered. Going back to Cleary, Meech + Ritola, it would give them a capable top 6 forward, a potentially decent 3rd/4th-line forward, and a somewhat versatile plug 7th D/13-14 Forward. Though they still might need someone cheaper than Cleary depending on what they spend on their goalies.

But to summarize, they basically need to choose between gambling on cheap goaltending, or moving Sharp. Neither is a particularly great option, and I'd probably risk the goalies. I'd maybe even see what I had to give away to get someone to take Campbell. But there are certainly worse things they could do.

[hooon 1,089]

So what are you telling me? That this isn't a realistic trade or Chicago wouldn't do it because it's an in-division proposed trade?

I fully believe this is a realistic trade and as far as in-division, remember March 23, 1999? The day Chicago traded Chelios to Detroit.

I understand Chicago weren't contenders at that point, but they have their hands tied with their cap issues. Now is the time to take advantage of that. If the in-division part is the reason for your argument, then I fully understand. But Cleary has a NTC too. He'd have to waive it, this of course is assuming he would. But think about it.

A. Yes, that's exactly what he's telling you, and what people have been telling you for four entire pages of this thread.

B. You might fully believe it, but you are still fully wrong.

C. What is there to think about? Its an absurd trade on every single level. There is nothing "realistic" about it as you say. Sure we'd all love Sharp on our squad, so would a lot of teams. Not going to happen for the Wings.

Despite the miasma of posts explaining to you in detail why this wouldn't work on a multitude of levels, I have a hunch you still won't get it, and will probably respond with another equally absurd proposition. Why do you want Sharp THAT badly?