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Trade idea between Wings & Hawks


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#21 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:48 PM

Let's hope not... if Hudler explodes we won't be able to afford him. How about a gradual increase in production? How long is Sharp signed for?

3.9 Million until 2012-2013.
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#22 titanium2

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:51 PM

Is it even plausible these days for DET and CHI, two division rivals, to trade with each other?

#23 Theophany

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:53 PM

Is it even plausible these days for DET and CHI, two division rivals, to trade with each other?

Nope.

#24 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:53 PM

Is it even plausible these days for DET and CHI, two division rivals, to trade with each other?

Most probably not, unless it would be greatly mutually beatifically to both teams. This idea would not fit under that category.
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#25 titanium2

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:58 PM

I didn't mean to derail the thread with that division rivals comment or anything. I was just wondering if DET and CHI would make any kind of trade these days or if it's something like Calgary and Edmonton (?) where they don't have any kind of transaction together for decades

#26 Booster313

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:06 AM

3.9 Million until 2012-2013.


Probably about a wash then in terms of offense with Hudler providing the better bargin right now and Sharp providing the better grit.

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#27 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:09 AM

Probably about a wash then in terms of offense with Hudler providing the better bargin right now and Sharp providing the better grit.


I can't imagine Holland trading a player who just came back to us for less money. It wouldn't set a good example for future free agents.
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#28 Crymson

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:53 AM

Maybe CHI will have to buy out Sharp and then Sharp can sign a cheap one year deal.


This post is broken in every conceivable way.

First, there's no way in hell that Chicago would buy out Sharp's contract. Buying him out would mean that Chicago would get nothing for him and would need to apply 1/3 of his contract hit per year to their cap. They can, at the very least, trade him for picks and at least get [b]something[b] in return.

Second, why on earth would Sharp sign a cheap one-year deal with anyone? He's a very talented player. Any team with the space would almost certainly snap him up, and they'd pay him well.

The world does not revolve around the desires of the Wings.

#29 Booster313

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 01:01 AM

I can't imagine Holland trading a player who just came back to us for less money. It wouldn't set a good example for future free agents.


agreed

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#30 Heaten

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 01:46 AM

ritolla hasn't done crap to prove he is untouchable. a couple mediocre season in the ahl thats it.


If you can't see the potential then I don't know what to tell you, but the kid is going to be rock solid NHLer. I personally project him to be a Filppula type player. btw, Maltby was a dominating 50th goal scorer in juniors and Johan Franzen was nothing more than a 4th liner at best... heck, Håkan wanted to draft Alexander Edler instead of Franzen. Rest is history. Ritola deserves his shot.

#31 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 04:26 AM

I would love Sharpie on this team. He's funny as hell and is great with the video camera. :yowza:

#32 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 04:42 AM

Nope.


They're still pissed they traded us Chelios.

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#33 Sarava

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:29 AM

They're still pissed they traded us Chelios.


I'm pretty sure we got over that a long time ago...

If the Hawks fail to trade Campbell (good chance for obvious reasons) and have to deal Sharp, I just don't see this happening. The number of teams that wouldn't be interested in Sharp could probably be counted on one hand. I'd expect a nice NHL ready forward prospect plus a #1 pick for Sharpy.

As others said, this move would be done to clean a lot of cap space, not take on an overrated slug like Cleary. And it isn't likely to come from any of the western conference rivals.

#34 WingsallTheway

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 06:27 AM

The only way this would be possible is it were to be a 3 team deal.

Something along the lines of

To DET- Patrick Sharp

To CHI- Wayne Simmonds, 2nd round pick, Meech

To LA- Daniel Cleary

CHI would be in this so they could shed some salary and hope to get some prospects in return. Another team would need to jump in to take the salary off DET.

Obviously the trade would never go down like this, but it would have to be along these lines.

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#35 stevkrause

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 06:54 AM

this thread makes my head explode in every conceivable way...

The OP had some lucid thoughts and at least was reasonable with his suggestions, but the fact it is Chicago-Detroit makes it moot...

To the person who suggested Chicago buying out Sharp... go sit in a corner for 30 minutes and think about what you did.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#36 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:55 AM

forget modano, that lineup would be unstoppable with sharp!


pretty much. this wouldn't happen though for just that reason. chicago would be saying "here wings, enjoy your cup...take that leafs" :lol:
all kidding aside, not gonna happen. the hawks know that if sharp becomes a wing, they are once again the most dominant team in the NHL hands down. but in saying that, i'm not big on losing ritola, which one of the guys mentioned is following the mould of flip. he should atleast be given a shot with 3rd line minutes or he'll be another leino. he'll play on the 4th line in DET and get ragged on and he'll go to another team and turn it on when he gets ice time. and as for the 2 mediocre seasons in GR...they havn't had the best forward depth the past couple years, so in a case like that, you have to look at individual talent and try to project that to what he can do playing with guys like dats, Z, franzen and flip etc.

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#37 eva unit zero

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:26 AM

pretty much. this wouldn't happen though for just that reason. chicago would be saying "here wings, enjoy your cup...take that leafs" :lol:
all kidding aside, not gonna happen. the hawks know that if sharp becomes a wing, they are once again the most dominant team in the NHL hands down. but in saying that, i'm not big on losing ritola, which one of the guys mentioned is following the mould of flip. he should atleast be given a shot with 3rd line minutes or he'll be another leino. he'll play on the 4th line in DET and get ragged on and he'll go to another team and turn it on when he gets ice time. and as for the 2 mediocre seasons in GR...they havn't had the best forward depth the past couple years, so in a case like that, you have to look at individual talent and try to project that to what he can do playing with guys like dats, Z, franzen and flip etc.


Hmm..

Hudler centered the first line in Grand Rapids at 21 and carried his left winger, a 28-year old Donald MacLean to a 56 goal, 88 point season, with Tomas Kopecky's 32 goal, 72 point season on the opposite wing. Hudler posted 60 assists and 96 points that season to lead the team. MacLean retired 3 years later, having played only 41 NHL games in his career.

The next season Hudler played the same number of games for the Red Wings, with 15 goals and 25 points.

By comparison, Ritola was fourth in scoring on the Griffins behind Jeremy Williams, Pat Rissmiller (started season with Hartford), and Jan Mursak. Justin Abdelkader and Michael Nylander also played partial seasons in the AHL (20+ games) and had better PPG than Ritola. Kris Newbury played most of his season with Grand Rapids, finishing with Hartford and more points than Ritola.

So among all of Ritola's teammates last season, he was the seventh best offensive player. Doug Janik even had a comparable PPG, as did Tomas Tatar and Brad May.

So yes, Ritola would likely perform better with better teammates, Abdelkader's AHL offense projects to 28 goals and 60 points over 82 games, while his NHL offense from the same season projects to 5 goals and 10 points over 82 games.

You can say all you want about "Ritola's the next Filppula!" and "He'll do better with better teammates!" but you have to realize something; Filppula put up 70 points as the second line center in Grand Rapids at age 21; the same year Hudler posted his 96; and was in the NHL at 22. It was his first season in Grand Rapids, and he played 74 of the 77 games he played there, playing 3 the next year. Filppula put up 17 in his rookie season at age 22, and 36 the next year. If Ritola is "the next Filppula" he's either going to suddenly have an explosion in development, or he's a few years behind Flip's development age-wise.

Ritola is a good prospect, but Filppula is a 26 year-old top-six forward. Ritola has a lot of work to do if he wants to be more than a role-player at the NHL level, and it's unlikely he'll be a Red Wing a year from now given his size, style, and the forward prospects in the Wings' system.

So now that we've analyzed Ritola far more in depth than was necessary, let's look at the rest of this trade.

Dan Cleary. Useful all-around winger, makes almost $3m. Contract ends in 2013. Can play all forward positions if needed.
Chicago may or may not even be interested in him if offered because of his contract. They've already traded away two wingers who made $3m, why would they then take one on? We'll assume that Bowman realizes that they have to take some salary back to make the trade work, and as Cleary can be fit into several spots they now have holes, it's not such a bad idea if he would waive his NTC.

Derek Meech. Meech can play forward and defense, which would be useful if the Hawks are forced to play a 21-man roster due to the cap. He provides speed and a good outlet pass, but he is capable defensively. The only question is...how much is he going to sign for? Assuming he signs for $650k, the Hawks actually increase their cap hit ever so slightly.

Taking the existing roster after the trade, and adding Beach, Kruger, Dowell, Cullimore, and Toivonen to fill a 13-7-2 roster gives the Hawks about $2.29m in cap space. So with this trade, the Hawks would have about $2.8m to sign Niemi. Without it, a maximum of about $1.8m left.

So this trade really doesn't help the Hawks at all with their cap issues as much as they need it to if they are trading Sharp. They are basically getting Cleary and two cheap depth players for Sharp. They can get comparable players by trading Sharp for a forward who is as good or better than Cleary and makes less, plus picks and/or prospects, and then signing two cheap UFAs or bringing guys like Bickell onto the roster full-time.

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#38 newfy

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:40 AM

I can't imagine Holland trading a player who just came back to us for less money. It wouldn't set a good example for future free agents.

I dont think thats true at all. If we just re-signed someone like Lidstrom or Homer then traded them it would look bad. But trading a guy who was gone to the KHL for a year and came back on his contract from arbitration, not less money that he chose, this would be completely acceptable.

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#39 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:44 AM

If you can't see the potential then I don't know what to tell you, but the kid is going to be rock solid NHLer. I personally project him to be a Filppula type player. btw, Maltby was a dominating 50th goal scorer in juniors and Johan Franzen was nothing more than a 4th liner at best... heck, Håkan wanted to draft Alexander Edler instead of Franzen. Rest is history. Ritola deserves his shot.

Ritola has potential, but he eventually has to put up numbers to earn his spot on the team. He hasn't shown that he can score at the level of Flip, and I'm not sure if he will have the chance to on this Wings team. This year Abby, Huds, and Cleary will likely be on the third line. Unless Ritola impresses, Mursak and Tatar may pass him on the depth chart when they move up in the next couple years. Ritola has the tools to be a productive player, but I'm not convinced he will become a 50+ point scorer in the NHL.

#40 Hank Dats 'N Homer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:53 AM

As much as i like sharp, and would love him on our team so he would stop scoring on us finally, there is noway this trade happens. chicago would not make a trade that would make us a stronger team and ultimately make them a weaker one in the same process. Not ganna happen, plus cleary has a no trade clause, Rittola has potential and we know the wings dont trade away potential often. That and i dont see the wings doing a sign and trade with Meech. Would look bad on the organization...





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