You yet again ignored my first post.
------Who said anything about 08' 09' besides me mixing up his jaw injury with his eye one LOL. Different years, hard to keep track of all the injuries.
You said he had played 65 games or less in each of the last two seasons. You were wrong. As for your mix-up in years for Cleary's jaw injury, I can only attribute this to the very likely possibility that you don't actually watch the Red Wings play on any sort of regular basis.
Jaw injuries do not have any long-term performance implications for hockey players. ------- once again.
You mentioned his jaw injury in the following category (quoted): "Signs of age let's see first, I said damaged goods not having to do with age itself, but having to do with wear on the body."
Yes, and? Most hockey players who have them frequently become plagued with them their whole career missing time.
Feel free to give me some examples of careers significantly altered by minor groin injuries.
Groin tears can often be 100% recovered from. ------Yeah tell that to Hasek.
I'll laugh at you if you're attempting to compare Hasek's notoriously-weak groin to that of Cleary... and I'm certainly going to laugh at you for completely missing on the fact that Hasek---as a goalie, and indeed quite possibly the most flexible goalie in NHL history---makes far, far different use of his groin and body on than does Cleary or any other skater in the league.
You're right about pain leaving the knee after surgery in 95% of cases. However a scoped knee is never completely as solid as it once was.
With the menisci, function often returns to normal after treatment. And no, standard arthroscopy of the knee does not necessarily cause any significant lasting loss of function. A tremendous number of NHL players have had minor knee injuries and have suffered little or nothing in the way of loss of performance. You know this.
Where was he last year then? Don't you dare say injured.
I'll most certainly say that he was injured, as he was playing on an injury that made it difficult for him to even navigate stairs. What puzzles me is what you can't accept about this.
Cleary wasn't asked to play hockey LOL. He didn't wanna have surgery which was his only option during the season. "Cleary opted not to have surgery during the season because while doing something as simple as walking up stairs was painful, he was able to skate. The downside to undergoing surgery in-season was a long recovery"
So the guy opted to tough it out, rather than have surgery and miss a huge portion of the season. How is it that you dislike this?
Dion Phaneuf called Cleary's hit clean, and the Flames as a whole made no fuss about the hit. This has been pointed out to you more than once already. ---- Can't find any articles on this to go either way so it's moot.
Cleary is one of the most complete players on the team. He accomplishes a whole lot with his ice time.
Cleary is too slow to be complete. "One of the most" Oh, you mean behind Zetterberg, Filpulla, Datsyuk, Eaves, Lidstrom, Rafalski, etc. Many above him who call do all the same roles.
Cleary? Slow? Do you really ever watch him play? Yup, Cleary isn't as good as Zetterberg or Datsyuk, though he plays more physically than either; he's far more capable than Eaves; and as great as Lidstrom, Rafalski and Filppula are, they are not physical by any stretch of the imagination. Note "complete".
Backes is younger than Cleary and will be paid considerably more; this makes your comparison rather silly. -----Other comparisons out there, many more make the same ammount. Backes Isn't in his Rookie contract anyways.
Feel free to make those comparisons. As for Backes, he only recently began scoring consistently; he'll get paid.
Edited by Crymson, 15 July 2010 - 07:45 PM.