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Dan Cleary working way back from surgery


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#21 NBCnothingbutcrosby

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:43 PM

What do we know about you and your feelings on Cleary? Well, we know that you've showed up to make inane claims about him, and that you've then jetted away without responding when people have called out your nonsense for what it is.



What am I gonna do fight over the internet. No.
I'm gonna make my claims and watch them play out again next season, then come back on here and say "I told you so" while everyone complains and wants him to waive his NTC.
If it doesn't playout that way which I believe it will but oh well, I'll come back and eat crow's pie.
Not now chief, I'm in the zone.


#22 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:45 PM

The past two seasons he has played under 65 games, so yeah you're right completely insane i say he players under 60!!! [Insert sarcasm here]
Signs of age let's see first, I said damaged goods not having to do with age itself, but having to do with wear on the body.
Cleary's list of recent injurys
-Groin tears
-Torn menisci (not to mention surgery)
-Jaw fractures
-Seperated Shoulder

That's just the last 2 seasons... He knows he hasn't earned his check, he knows he let his team down, he knows he didn't put not even 1 POINT up in the Phx series.
So go ahead play clips of him on a hit where he left his feet (Which I didn't enjoy watching because you can clearly see him jump before contact.) and how he had a clinching goal. But with 15 minutes of Ice time each game there are WAY better players making the same amount of money who can get the job done as well, they may not get clinching goals those exact moments but they could probably keep us out of those moments as well. (David Backes comes to mind)

Not everyone plays all 82 games every single season.Cleary is a battler so of course he's gonna get banged up here and there.Give the guy a break.If he comes back 100% next year and puts up 25 points in 65 or 70 games,then i'll understand people's frustration.
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#23 Crymson

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:49 PM

The past two seasons he has played under 65 games, so yeah you're right completely insane i say he players under 60!!! [Insert sarcasm here]
Signs of age let's see first, I said damaged goods not having to do with age itself, but having to do with wear on the body.
Cleary's list of recent injurys
-Groin tears
-Torn menisci (not to mention surgery)
-Jaw fractures
-Seperated Shoulder

That's just the last 2 seasons... He knows he hasn't earned his check, he knows he let his team down, he knows he didn't put not even 1 POINT up in the Phx series.
So go ahead play clips of him on a hit where he left his feet (Which I didn't enjoy watching because you can clearly see him jump before contact.) and how he had a clinching goal. But with 15 minutes of Ice time each game there are WAY better players making the same amount of money who can get the job done as well, they may not get clinching goals those exact moments but they could probably keep us out of those moments as well. (David Backes comes to mind)


Sigh...

  • Cleary played 74 games in '08-'09.
  • Cleary's jaw was not injured within the last two seasons.
  • Jaw injuries do not have any long-term performance implications for hockey players.
  • Groin tears are extremely common in hockey players.
  • Groin tears can often be 100% recovered from.
  • Torn menisci often cause no lasting effect after being treated, unlike injuries to the collateral and cruciate ligaments.
  • Cleary most certainly did not let the team down in '08-'09; he was good during the regular season, and he was one of our absolute best players during the playoffs.
  • Cleary was playing injured all of last season, including during the playoffs. He was presumably asked, as a result of the crazy injury spell, to play throughout the regular season despite his injuries; one would assume that he would have taken time off for rehab otherwise.
  • Dion Phaneuf called Cleary's hit clean, and the Flames as a whole made no fuss about the hit. This has been pointed out to you more than once already.
  • Cleary is one of the most complete players on the team. He accomplishes a whole lot with his ice time.
  • Backes is younger than Cleary and will be paid considerably more; this makes your comparison rather silly.
In short: your post is full of inanities.

What am I gonna do fight over the internet. No.
I'm gonna make my claims and watch them play out again next season, then come back on here and say "I told you so" while everyone complains and wants him to waive his NTC.
If it doesn't playout that way which I believe it will but oh well, I'll come back and eat crow's pie.


Oh, OK... I get it now. You come on here and make passionate statements but don't actually care about anyone's opinion. Is that right? If so, why don't you just yell at a wall instead?

Nay, I'm fairly sure you just like to whine and don't like to take responsibility for your words.

Edited by Crymson, 15 July 2010 - 06:56 PM.


#24 NBCnothingbutcrosby

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:50 PM

Not everyone plays all 82 games every single season.Cleary is a battler so of course he's gonna get banged up here and there.Give the guy a break.If he comes back 100% next year and puts up 25 points in 65 or 70 games,then i'll understand people's frustration.



I know hockey players get hurt obviously but he missed 1/4 of each season as of late, it'd be a lot nicer if his cap hit was 1/4 less... we could really use that extra $625,000 of cap room.
Not now chief, I'm in the zone.


#25 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:52 PM

I know hockey players get hurt obviously but he missed 1/4 of each season as of late, it'd be a lot nicer if his cap hit was 1/4 less... we could really use that extra $625,000 of cap room.

Yeah but it simply doesn't work that way.He couldn't have planned on getting hurt for a fourth of the year and sign for a fourth less.
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RIP Rick Rypien

#26 Crymson

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:52 PM

I know hockey players get hurt obviously but he missed 1/4 of each season as of late, it'd be a lot nicer if his cap hit was 1/4 less... we could really use that extra $625,000 of cap room.


Apparently you're completely ignoring my statistics. I guess facts aren't sufficient to deflect you from your need to whine.

I'll list them for you again, just in case you missed them:

  • It's extremely rare for a hockey player to play 82 games in a season.
  • Cleary has missed 59 games over five seasons; this puts him at an average of 70 games per season, which is, at worst, average amongst players in the NHL.
  • Two of the games he missed in '05-'06 were due to flu; proneness to injury had nothing to do with this.
  • All 19 of the games he missed in '07-'08 were due to having his jaw shattered by a puck while screening the goalie; proneness to injury had nothing to do with this.
  • All eight games he missed in '09-'10 were due to an injury to his left eye; proneness to injury had nothing to do with this.
  • The total sum of games missed by Cleary due to standard hockey injury over the last five years is thus 30 rather than 59; this places him at only six games missed to standard injury per season over the last five seasons, which in turn classifies him as an exceptionally durable hockey player.

Would anyone like to place odds on the possibility that NothingButCrosby ignores part or all of my last two responses to him?

Edited by Crymson, 15 July 2010 - 06:58 PM.


#27 HankthaTank

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:03 PM

I know hockey players get hurt obviously but he missed 1/4 of each season as of late, it'd be a lot nicer if his cap hit was 1/4 less... we could really use that extra $625,000 of cap room.

Hockey players do get hurt so you are basically attempting to clean up your own garbage with these statements but the fact of the matter is and its quite simply put....

Cleary brings everything to all lines and you just can't find these guys everywhere especially on the open market. And saying someone can come in and get paid 3 mill to do the SAME things Cleary does proves s*** considering the Wings (who actually can manage their team and not manage from NHL 10) would NEVER ever get rid of a player such as this considering the versatility he brings. Fact is he is coming back healthy, and we don't know how many he will play or miss. Injuries are as unpredictable as a goalie's mindset. You just really don't know what will happen especially with last year's epidemic. I just don't understand the all out bashing of a guy who really just leaves it out there on the ice for us every night. I will do one better and say he is damn near irreplaceable and the Wings easily feel the same.

Edited by HankthaTank, 15 July 2010 - 07:04 PM.

TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED.

#28 NBCnothingbutcrosby

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:08 PM

Sigh...

  • Cleary played 74 games in '08-'09. ------Who said anything about 08' 09' besides me mixing up his jaw injury with his eye one LOL. Different years, hard to keep track of all the injuries.
  • Cleary's jaw was not injured within the last two seasons. ----- read above.
  • Jaw injuries do not have any long-term performance implications for hockey players. ------- once again.
  • Groin tears are extremely common in hockey players. ----- Yes, and? Most hockey players who have them frequently become plagued with them their whole career missing time.
  • Groin tears can often be 100% recovered from. ------Yeah tell that to Hasek.
  • Torn menisci often cause no lasting effect, unlike injuries to the collateral and cruciate ligaments. You're right about pain leaving the knee after surgery in 95% of cases. However a scoped knee is never completely as solid as it once was.
  • Cleary most certainly did not let the team down in '08-'09; he was good during the regular season, and he was one of our absolute best players during the playoffs.----- Where was he last year then? Don't you dare say injured.
  • Cleary was playing injured all of last season, including during the playoffs. He was presumably asked, as a result of the crazy injury spell, to play throughout the regular season despite his injuries; one would assume that he would have taken time off for rehab otherwise. ----- Cleary wasn't asked to play hockey LOL. He didn't wanna have surgery which was his only option during the season. "Cleary opted not to have surgery during the season because while doing something as simple as walking up stairs was painful, he was able to skate. The downside to undergoing surgery in-season was a long recovery" Cited: Detroit Free Press.
  • Dion Phaneuf called Cleary's hit clean, and the Flames as a whole made no fuss about the hit. This has been pointed out to you more than once already. ---- Can't find any articles on this to go either way so it's moot.
  • Cleary is one of the most complete players on the team. He accomplishes a whole lot with his ice time. ---Cleary is too slow to be complete. "One of the most" Oh, you mean behind Zetterberg, Filpulla, Datsyuk, Eaves, Lidstrom, Rafalski, etc. Many above him who call do all the same roles.
  • Backes is younger than Cleary and will be paid considerably more; this makes your comparison rather silly. -----Other comparisons out there, many more make the same ammount. Backes Isn't in his Rookie contract anyways.

In short: your post is full of inanities. Go away. ---- Here to stay!



Oh, OK... I get it now. You come on here and make passionate statements but don't actually care about anyone's opinion. Is that right? If so, why don't you just yell at a wall instead?

Nay, I'm fairly sure you just like to whine and don't like to take responsibility for your words. ---- Just backed it up!


Not now chief, I'm in the zone.


#29 rage

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:12 PM

Okay, never use the Words, BACK and SURGERY in the same Sentence, let alone a Thread Title!!! Geezz!

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#30 HankthaTank

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:30 PM

With your feelings NBC I reply...






Edited by HankthaTank, 15 July 2010 - 07:31 PM.

TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED.

#31 Crymson

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:31 PM

You yet again ignored my first post.

------Who said anything about 08' 09' besides me mixing up his jaw injury with his eye one LOL. Different years, hard to keep track of all the injuries.


You said he had played 65 games or less in each of the last two seasons. You were wrong. As for your mix-up in years for Cleary's jaw injury, I can only attribute this to the very likely possibility that you don't actually watch the Red Wings play on any sort of regular basis.

Jaw injuries do not have any long-term performance implications for hockey players. ------- once again.


You mentioned his jaw injury in the following category (quoted): "Signs of age let's see first, I said damaged goods not having to do with age itself, but having to do with wear on the body."

Yes, and? Most hockey players who have them frequently become plagued with them their whole career missing time.



Feel free to give me some examples of careers significantly altered by minor groin injuries.

Groin tears can often be 100% recovered from. ------Yeah tell that to Hasek.


I'll laugh at you if you're attempting to compare Hasek's notoriously-weak groin to that of Cleary... and I'm certainly going to laugh at you for completely missing on the fact that Hasek---as a goalie, and indeed quite possibly the most flexible goalie in NHL history---makes far, far different use of his groin and body on than does Cleary or any other skater in the league.

Nice try.

You're right about pain leaving the knee after surgery in 95% of cases. However a scoped knee is never completely as solid as it once was.


With the menisci, function often returns to normal after treatment. And no, standard arthroscopy of the knee does not necessarily cause any significant lasting loss of function. A tremendous number of NHL players have had minor knee injuries and have suffered little or nothing in the way of loss of performance. You know this.

Where was he last year then? Don't you dare say injured.

I'll most certainly say that he was injured, as he was playing on an injury that made it difficult for him to even navigate stairs. What puzzles me is what you can't accept about this.

Cleary wasn't asked to play hockey LOL. He didn't wanna have surgery which was his only option during the season. "Cleary opted not to have surgery during the season because while doing something as simple as walking up stairs was painful, he was able to skate. The downside to undergoing surgery in-season was a long recovery"


So the guy opted to tough it out, rather than have surgery and miss a huge portion of the season. How is it that you dislike this?


Dion Phaneuf called Cleary's hit clean, and the Flames as a whole made no fuss about the hit. This has been pointed out to you more than once already. ---- Can't find any articles on this to go either way so it's moot.
Cleary is one of the most complete players on the team. He accomplishes a whole lot with his ice time.

Cleary is too slow to be complete. "One of the most" Oh, you mean behind Zetterberg, Filpulla, Datsyuk, Eaves, Lidstrom, Rafalski, etc. Many above him who call do all the same roles.


Cleary? Slow? Do you really ever watch him play? Yup, Cleary isn't as good as Zetterberg or Datsyuk, though he plays more physically than either; he's far more capable than Eaves; and as great as Lidstrom, Rafalski and Filppula are, they are not physical by any stretch of the imagination. Note "complete".

Backes is younger than Cleary and will be paid considerably more; this makes your comparison rather silly. -----Other comparisons out there, many more make the same ammount. Backes Isn't in his Rookie contract anyways.


Feel free to make those comparisons. As for Backes, he only recently began scoring consistently; he'll get paid.

Edited by Crymson, 15 July 2010 - 07:45 PM.


#32 newfy

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:58 PM

So the guy opted to tough it out, rather than have surgery and miss a huge portion of the season. How is it that you dislike this?

This is where I can't beleive NBC is complaining. There was an Mlive article basically saying the wings asked Cleary to tough it out until the injuries got better. And guess what, they didn't so he played the whole season on 2 torn meniscus. How can someone not adore that in a hockey player? He couldn't make it upstairs hardly but he still played. That is the ultimate team player.

And yeah Meniscus injuries hardly have any long lasting effect on the knee. Its not like its a ligament tear.

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#33 puckloo39

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:02 PM

not arguing anything here. I love Cleary and his spirit. I hope with all my heart he has his best season ever, personally and professionally. You are the man, Dan! :thumbup:

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#34 Guest_nutz2u (Guest)

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:07 PM

You yet again ignored my first post.



You said he had played 65 games or less in each of the last two seasons. You were wrong. As for your mix-up in years for Cleary's jaw injury, I can only attribute this to the very likely possibility that you don't actually watch the Red Wings play on any sort of regular basis.



You mentioned his jaw injury in the following category (quoted): "Signs of age let's see first, I said damaged goods not having to do with age itself, but having to do with wear on the body."



Feel free to give me some examples of careers significantly altered by minor groin injuries.



I'll laugh at you if you're attempting to compare Hasek's notoriously-weak groin to that of Cleary... and I'm certainly going to laugh at you for completely missing on the fact that Hasek---as a goalie, and indeed quite possibly the most flexible goalie in NHL history---makes far, far different use of his groin and body on than does Cleary or any other skater in the league.

Nice try.



With the menisci, function often returns to normal after treatment. And no, standard arthroscopy of the knee does not necessarily cause any significant lasting loss of function. A tremendous number of NHL players have had minor knee injuries and have suffered little or nothing in the way of loss of performance. You know this.


I'll most certainly say that he was injured, as he was playing on an injury that made it difficult for him to even navigate stairs. What puzzles me is what you can't accept about this.



So the guy opted to tough it out, rather than have surgery and miss a huge portion of the season. How is it that you dislike this?


Dion Phaneuf called Cleary's hit clean, and the Flames as a whole made no fuss about the hit. This has been pointed out to you more than once already. ---- Can't find any articles on this to go either way so it's moot.
Cleary is one of the most complete players on the team. He accomplishes a whole lot with his ice time.



Cleary? Slow? Do you really ever watch him play? Yup, Cleary isn't as good as Zetterberg or Datsyuk, though he plays more physically than either; he's far more capable than Eaves; and as great as Lidstrom, Rafalski and Filppula are, they are not physical by any stretch of the imagination. Note "complete".



Feel free to make those comparisons. As for Backes, he only recently began scoring consistently; he'll get paid.


Other people are entitled to their opinion so why do you insist on arguing with them? I'll bet you would argue with a mirror if you didn't have the internet to bleat at.

#35 newfy

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:30 PM

Other people are entitled to their opinion so why do you insist on arguing with them? I'll bet you would argue with a mirror if you didn't have the internet to bleat at.

Whats the point of an internet forum if we're all going to agree? Thats boring discussion.

"Insert topic of discussion here"
"I agree"
"Yup sounds good"
"Yeah youre right"

That would be dumb if ppl didn't argue their side of an opinion. I hardly ever see eye to eye with Crymson, but you gotta have argument to make the forum interesting.

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#36 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:17 PM

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This is serious s**t people where we always have to put other people down and call them STOOOOPID and tell everybody OMFG STEAM ROXORZ THE BIG ONE1111!

Remember?

And remember this, I am the 302nd person that is suggesting a trade for Cleary. Oh yeah, there are those no trade clause thingies!!!

*shrugs*




I don't know what I just typed here. I'm a weird and strange person.

#37 hooon

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:31 PM

Everyone keeps saying what a beast he is in the playoffs. In the 2008 playoffs didn't Cleary only have 3 points in 22 games?
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#38 newfy

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:34 PM

Everyone keeps saying what a beast he is in the playoffs. In the 2008 playoffs didn't Cleary only have 3 points in 22 games?

Did you watch him play? Who cares about stats, the box score doesn't matter, its how the guy plays that matters.

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#39 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:38 PM

Everyone keeps saying what a beast he is in the playoffs. In the 2008 playoffs didn't Cleary only have 3 points in 22 games?

Because he was recovering from a broken jaw. Don't you remember the funny facemask he had to wear after he came back?

That was his best regular season in Detroit, and he played fewer games than any of his other seasons here.
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#40 Crymson

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:41 PM

Everyone keeps saying what a beast he is in the playoffs. In the 2008 playoffs didn't Cleary only have 3 points in 22 games?


He returned from having missed 19 games for major reconstructive jaw surgery, and almost immediately thereafter hit the ice for the playoffs. Having major jaw surgery is an utterly draining experience. One cannot eat solid food for some time, and one absolutely cannot exercise for a good while. Cleary no doubt lost a very significant amount of strength and conditioning during that period---and upon returning, he was almost immediately thrust into the middle of playoff hockey. That's not easy.

He still played very well.





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