Sergei Federov

[Booster313 138]

Yeah, I actually was thinking of just forwards so I guess I worded it wrong. Lidstrom's ability to read the play will not be rivaled for a long long time.

Sergei had unrivaled raw talent. Even above Lidstrom in my opinion. Lidstrom to me is the greatest Red Wing to ever don the jersey in the modern era but it's because of his mental capacity for the game that he's so great. Lidstrom also has heart, and physical talent that's up their with the best. Raw talent, Fedorov could have been up there with Gretzky. He lacked the mental aspect and the heart. Yzerman had the physical ability, the heart, and the mental capacity for the game. The problem with Yzerman and the reason he doesn't surpass Lids is because of his injuries, I almost feel like his mental game developed more after his body wouldn't allow him to simply dominate physically.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg both have some of the pieces to be mentioned with Red Wing greats for a long time, but I'm not ready to bestow them with that honor just yet.

[Opie 308]

NO one on here has ever really denied Feds talent, just his motivation.

At times he was the best player I had ever seen, and at times he was the biggest floater I had ever seen.

[Broken 16 381]

When Fedorov was at his best, he looked like a superhero on skates.

[Guest Crymson]

It's funny that the OP can't even spell the guy's name correctly.

[wally42 1]

It's funny that the OP can't even spell the guy's name correctly.

I know man! I didnt even know who he was talking about!

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I'll never forget Sergei's first night back at the Joe, which I was lucky enough to attend. The fans reaction said how we all felt about the way he left.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

I'll never forget Sergei's first night back at the Joe, which I was lucky enough to attend. The fans reaction said how we all felt about the way he left.

He did sort of rub our noses in it. Don't get me wrong, he had every right to leave. But we had every right to tell him how we feel about his insulting us as having insulted his manhood with the paltry $10 mil a year offer and then leaving for less money as well.

[titanium2 867]

He did sort of rub our noses in it. Don't get me wrong, he had every right to leave. But we had every right to tell him how we feel about his insulting us as having insulted his manhood with the paltry $10 mil a year offer and then leaving for less money as well.

The details of his departure are still hazy for me. Towards the end of the saga he had a meeting with Mr. Ilitch. He said after he met with Mr. Ilitch that he was very excited about a return to the Wings. Then... He left. Who knows what the hell he wanted? To be the highest paid player on the team? Did he get that when he went to Anaheim?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'll get some flak for saying this, but I agree with ya concerning the raw talent of Feds; def better than Hank, and probably better than Dats...Feds just lacked the motivation on some nights.

Yeah - he and Slava Kozlov had some nights in which they were rather invisible - especially Kozlov his last few years in Detroit.

Definitely better than both of them. Hank is closer in style to Fedorov than Dats is. Fedorov had a whole gear though that even Hank doesn't have. He could take over games.

Datsyuk has crazy dangling talent, but Fedorov still just had the size speed and skill to dominate.

I'd also argue that Yzerman wasn't particularly physically gifted, which makes his career all the more impressive. Aside from the bad knees, he wasn't particularly fast, wasn't big, and he wasn't slow but he didn't have blazing speed. He just made up for it all with hockey sense, skill, and heart.

No one's hockey sense surpasses Lidstrom though.

Edited July 24, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[Nev 1,085]

It was his own greed and arrogance that led to his career in the NHL ending on a downswing - had he not repeatedly spit in Detroit's face and accepted his role here, he would likely be a first ballot HOF'er and would probably have 91 hanging in the rafters immediately following his retirement... instead, he will go down as a fringe HOF'er and prima donna that held a team (that basically saved his whole family and rescued him from the USSR, thus proverbially spitting in their faces) hostage, trying every possible way he could to get out of here, until he eventually did, because his own ego and arrogance could not accept the fact that he was not "the guy"...

Sorry mate, but you're letting your hatred of Feds cloud your judgement. You are correct about his number not being retired, an honour which he would definately receive if not for the manner of his departure. But to call him a fringe HOFer? Lets just take a look at his resume *deep breath*

6 All-Star appearances

1 x Hart (first European to do so)

1 x Lester Pearson

2 x Selke

FIrst Russian to 1000 points

Most goals by a Russian (483)

1,179 regular season points in 1,248 games

176 points in 183 playoff games (not bad for a guy with no heart)

1 x WJC Gold

3 x World Championship Gold

3 x Stanley Cup

Sure, he was moody and frustrating and coasted for stetches of the regular season, but in the playoffs, when it really mattered, he always showed up (IIRC no other wing had more playoff points during Sergei's time in Detroit. Not Stevey, not Shanny, not Nick).

[Reilly 24]

Fedorov is a first ballot hall-of-famer and will have his number retired in Detroit.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Fedorov is a first ballot hall-of-famer and will have his number retired in Detroit.

First ballot absolutely. But 2/2 times he had a chance to leave he signed with someone else. The first he demanded we not match it and the second he left for LESS money. The message was clear. I personally don't think we should retire numbers of players who don't want to be here and tell us that at every chance no matter how good they are. Then again I'm not going to set myself on fire in protest if we do retire his number. But my vote is an unequivocal, "No."

Edited July 24, 2010 by NomadFromKazoo

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

First ballot absolutely. But 2/2 times he had a chance to leave he signed with someone else. The first he demanded we not match it and the second he left for LESS money. The message was clear. I personally don't think we should retire numbers of players who don't want to be here and tell us that at every chance no matter how good they are. Then again I'm not going to set myself on fire in protest if we do retire his number. But my vote is an unequivocal, "No."

He demanded Detroit not match the offer sheet? I don't remember that happening at all. Holland was low-balling Feds, trying to keep his salary under Yzerman's, much like he did with Lidstrom's salary as a benchmark for the last few seasons. Sergei was worth more than that on the open market. And that deal was also very much about the Carolina owner sticking it to Illitch, especially the way he structured the offer.

The holding out and signing an offer sheet somewhere else is definitely hard to take as a fan of the team, but it happens. Sakic signed one with the Rangers. But I never heard anything about Fedorov demanding Detroit not match. And he had turned down an offer sheet earlier in the season from the Rangers. Part of this had to be forcing Holland's hand.

Also as has been well documented on this site, the deal with the Ducks wasn't as simple as taking less money. The Wings had pulled an offer off the table, Fedorov was allegedly getting divorced.

Fedorov was a moody f***** for sure and his contract negotiations were contentious, and took nights off which was infuriating given his ability to dominate games. But you're oversimplifying his two deals.

And to a small extent, I can understand some of his moodiness. He was the best player on the Wings during the Cup years. He probably should've won the conn smythe for that first Cup, yet he wasn't getting the salary, or sometimes even ice time that really reflected his value to the team.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

He demanded Detroit not match the offer sheet?

Yes. He signed the sheet and told the Wings not to match it so he could leave. I'm not going by anything I read, I remember it well. You can believe it or not, I'm not going to argue about things that I just remember. It wasn't that long ago. Also, he may have had the best individual skills on the team but he was definitely not the best player, that was Yzerman.

As for our ever "low balling" him, it's just silly. It's pretty clear we're not stupid. He may have gotten more on the open market then we did, but he and we both had to play by the rules, and I never said he didn't have the right to sign an offer sheet or leave when he did and I also said I loved him as a Wing, I just said I vote no to the rafters because he told us he didn't want to be here.

Also as has been well documented on this site, the deal with the Ducks wasn't as simple as taking less money. The Wings had pulled an offer off the table, Fedorov was allegedly getting divorced

He whined our offer insulted him. That we "pulled it off the table" doesn't change that our offer hadn't been an insult since he couldn't leave for more money the second time.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yes. He signed the sheet and told the Wings not to match it so he could leave. I'm not going by anything I read, I remember it well. You can believe it or not, I'm not going to argue about things that I just remember. It wasn't that long ago. Also, he may have had the best individual skills on the team but he was definitely not the best player, that was Yzerman.

Well I don't believe it. Any actual quotes in the press and my memory of the time was more about him wanting to get back to playing hockey. The act of signing the offer sheet was pretty offensive, but I have no memory of him ever doing anything like demanding the Wings not match.

As for who's better, that's a semantics argument. Yzerman had the heart, drive and hockey sense to compensate for his injuries and age. If I had to choose between the two of them at the time, I'd pick Stevie. But Yzerman at his best was not as good as Fedorov at his best.

As for our ever "low balling" him, it's just silly. It's pretty clear we're not stupid. He may have gotten more on the open market then we did, but he and we both had to play by the rules, and I never said he didn't have the right to sign an offer sheet or leave when he did and I also said I loved him as a Wing, I just said I vote no to the rafters because he told us he didn't want to be here.

And I don't think he ever said he didn't want to be here.

Here's the best link I could find with some details of what actually happened at the time.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_n10_v222/ai_20382950/?tag=content;col1

"We compare him to certain players," Holland said of Fedorov, "and his people compare him to others, whom we obviously think are not at the same level."

I asked Holland: "Who are these players you and his agent Mike Barnett, are comparing?"

"I'm not going to say," he said in a huff.

When I contacted Barnett, he revealed he was using Sakic, who had just signed a $21 million, three-year contract with Colorado, as his comparison.

I suggested to Barnett he was aiming too high if he was shooting for a $7 million per year deal. He said he would take $6 million, but that Holland was trying to low-ball Fedorov at $4.5 million. That appeared to be true considering the $7 million Sakic got and the $6 million Messier, at age 36, was handed by the Canucks.

"As long as Steve Yzerman ($5.08 million) is here, he will be the highest-paid player on the Red Wings," Holland said, getting even more perturbed with my questioning.

All that six months of Red Wings' posturing has produced is name-calling and finger-pointing in the locker room and alienation of Fedorov with Detroit fans--who half booed and half cheered in his first game back against the Panthers.

He whined our offer insulted him. That we "pulled it off the table" doesn't change that our offer hadn't been an insult since he couldn't leave for more money the second time.

Link? source?

Because all the stuff I heard from Feds was about how it was hard leaving Detroit and that it was the only home he'd known since Russia.

His career with Detroit was a contentious one, but frankly, you're just making s*** up or at best skewing what actually happened.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

And to a small extent, I can understand some of his moodiness. He was the best player on the Wings during the Cup years. He probably should've won the conn smythe for that first Cup, yet he wasn't getting the salary, or sometimes even ice time that really reflected his value to the team.

One might wonder if the Wing's may suffer the same fate with Hudler. There are a ton of similarities in the paragraph I quoted.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Well I don't believe it

Your choice, and I haven't proven it or shown any quotes so there's no reason you have to. Ironically I wasn't irked when he signed it as you were. It was when he followed it with what was actually a strong statement demanding we not match it that he irked me which is why I remember it. The second time it was not his failure to accept our offer again which irked me, it was his statements how insulting our offer was followed by his leaving for less money that irked me. You did concede he's like that so even if we don't react to the same things, our memories of him are certainly similar. But he didn't sign with us when he had a choice. If he said anything clearly now such as that no matter what else he did in his mind he'll always be a Red Wing or something to that effect I'd strongly consider that too. But I've never heard him say that.

As for who's better, that's a semantics argument. Yzerman had the heart, drive and hockey sense to compensate for his injuries and age. If I had to choose between the two of them at the time, I'd pick Stevie. But Yzerman at his best was not as good as Fedorov at his best.

I agree, and both were strongly responsible for our first two Cups. As for me, if I could take one of them and only one of them at their prime to build a team around, I'd pick Stevie Y any day of the week and that's why I say he's ultimately a better player. Federov not only had an attitude but didn't drag his lazy butt up and down the ice unless he felt like it or use his killer skills unless he felt like it either. I'll give you if he showed up all the time like Stevie Y did then it'd be a harder choice, but he didn't and that makes it easy. For me. But Fedorov was certainly good enough it's reasonable to pick him.

And I don't think he ever said he didn't want to be here.

I agree, that was my interpretation of his wanting to exit both times he had the chance. But you're right I never heard him actually say that.

His career with Detroit was a contentious one, but frankly, you're just making s*** up or at best skewing what actually happened.

Saying he tried to leave 2/2 times he got the chance is fact. I'm skewing nothing. And again I not only agreed he's a great player but said I loved him as a Wing.

[eva unit zero 271]

Your choice, and I haven't proven it or shown any quotes so there's no reason you have to. Ironically I wasn't irked when he signed it as you were. It was when he followed it with what was actually a strong statement demanding we not match it that he irked me which is why I remember it. The second time it was not his failure to accept our offer again which irked me, it was his statements how insulting our offer was followed by his leaving for less money that irked me. You did concede he's like that so even if we don't react to the same things, our memories of him are certainly similar. But he didn't sign with us when he had a choice. If he said anything clearly now such as that no matter what else he did in his mind he'll always be a Red Wing or something to that effect I'd strongly consider that too. But I've never heard him say that.

I agree, and both were strongly responsible for our first two Cups. As for me, if I could take one of them and only one of them at their prime to build a team around, I'd pick Stevie Y any day of the week and that's why I say he's ultimately a better player. Federov not only had an attitude but didn't drag his lazy butt up and down the ice unless he felt like it or use his killer skills unless he felt like it either. I'll give you if he showed up all the time like Stevie Y did then it'd be a harder choice, but he didn't and that makes it easy. For me. But Fedorov was certainly good enough it's reasonable to pick him.

I agree, that was my interpretation of his wanting to exit both times he had the chance. But you're right I never heard him actually say that.

Saying he tried to leave 2/2 times he got the chance is fact. I'm skewing nothing. And again I not only agreed he's a great player but said I loved him as a Wing.

So you're saying that loyalty and leadership is nullified if you sign with another team? Guess that rules out the leadership abilities of Gretzky, Messier, Sakic, and a long list of other guys.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Fedorov was a top-line talent through the end of his career. His offensive numbers started to decrease in the last couple seasons, but that was due primarily to a decrease in ice time and a change in use (he was being used more as a second line shut-down center even though he was his team's top center) and his defense was still elite.

One wonders if Fedorov might take the third line position Modano was being interviewed for...

Damit! Why did I waste my time opening this thread when I knew sombody would post that?! Duh!!!

no no no no no no....

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

So you're saying that loyalty and leadership is nullified if you sign with another team? Guess that rules out the leadership abilities of Gretzky, Messier, Sakic, and a long list of other guys.

No, I actually didn't say that. I specifically said the part about signing with another team wasn't a big deal to me either time. I actually specifically addressed that point and said what my issue was. I'm glad to defend my position, I already clearly stated what I objected to and even said that part wasn't the problem I had with him.

Damit! Why did I waste my time opening this thread when I knew sombody would post that?! Duh!!!

no no no no no no....

I couldn't believe it took this long. And I agree with you totally.

Edited July 24, 2010 by NomadFromKazoo