Kovalchuk Re-Signs with Devils

[Yzerman191 37]

The problem here seems to be that people perceive there is a silent agreement between Kovalchuk and Lou for him to retire, say, around the 38 year old mark. Does anyone expect a 30 year old, injury prone Johan Franzen to play until he's 40? How about an almost-equally injury prone Zetterberg playing until he's 40? Don't you guys think there's a silent agreement between Holland and Zetterberg/Franzen to do the same thing at the tail end of their contracts?

Kovalchuk's contract is longer, but he's also a few years younger than Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa were when they signed their contracts. He's also demonstrated himself capable of playing almost every game of the season throughout his entire career. I'm not saying he's going to play out the duration of the contract, but I don't view this contract as anything different from what we're seeing elsewhere around the league.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Sergei Fedorov is 40 years old, Jaromir Jagr is 38. Both are not only still playing, but played at the 2010 Olympics, and may well play at the 2014 Olympics also.

Kovalchuk likely won't be one of the world's elite forwards at 44, but that does not mean he will not be a good hockey player if he chooses to play that long, which he certainly may be capable of.

Mikey when he tells his stories always said that hockey players from back in the day never really took care of themselves as athletes do now. Yeah they might not be as fast as their were, unless you were Mike Gartner type, but their bodies can take a few more years of hard athlete living.

And 6 garbage years tacked on at basically league minimum. It's such a clear attempt at circumvention they should remove Lamoriello from the HHOF. If the league doesn't step in here and deny this deal, they should just get rid of the cap altogether. I'd expect a 20+ year deal for Parise next year.

Oh yeah the Red Wings totally expect our long contract guys to fulfill their contracts. I mean they know Zetterberg's wonky back is gonna hold up and Franzen's body can handle all these knee surgeries and concussions.

Edited July 20, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[Buppy 1,720]

The problem here seems to be that people perceive there is a silent agreement between Kovalchuk and Lou for him to retire, say, around the 38 year old mark. Does anyone expect a 30 year old, injury prone Johan Franzen to play until he's 40? How about an almost-equally injury prone Zetterberg playing until he's 40? Don't you guys think there's a silent agreement between Holland and Zetterberg/Franzen to do the same thing at the tail end of their contracts?

Kovalchuk's contract is longer, but he's also a few years younger than Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa were when they signed their contracts. He's also demonstrated himself capable of playing almost every game of the season throughout his entire career. I'm not saying he's going to play out the duration of the contract, but I don't view this contract as anything different from what we're seeing elsewhere around the league.

Mikey when he tells his stories always said that hockey players from back in the day never really took care of themselves as athletes do now. Yeah they might not be as fast as their were, unless you were Mike Gartner type, but their bodies can take a few more years of hard athlete living.

I don't think you quite appreciate just how unlikely it is for a player to play until they are 44. Chelios is the only one to do so in the past 30 years. 7 players in the entire history of the NHL have done it. Recchi may get there, but it's still exceedingly rare. Much more so than 40, which is becoming more common.

[Yzerman191 37]

I don't think you quite appreciate just how unlikely it is for a player to play until they are 44. Chelios is the only one to do so in the past 30 years. 7 players in the entire history of the NHL have done it. Recchi may get there, but it's still exceedingly rare. Much more so than 40, which is becoming more common.

The whole thing is that a silent agreement of retiring two or three years before the contract expires is no different from a silent agreement to retire six or seven years before the contract expires. It's the same thing - exploiting a loophole. I would give Kovalchuk the same chance of making it to 44 as I would give Zetterberg, Hossa, or Franzen of making it to 41.

[dragonballgtz 273]

I don't think you quite appreciate just how unlikely it is for a player to play until they are 44. Chelios is the only one to do so in the past 30 years. 7 players in the entire history of the NHL have done it. Recchi may get there, but it's still exceedingly rare. Much more so than 40, which is becoming more common.

I don't think you understand my post. By you saying players play at 40 is becoming more common that is because they are taking care of themselves better. Most people back in the day you hit your 30s you were almost done 10 to 12 seasons were the norm. It is because people are taking care of themselves better with all the modern ways people train/heal they can play longer.

The next step for athletes is to play into their mid to late 40s

EDIT: Do I think Z, Franzen, Pronger, Kovie, Hossa etc will play out their contracts...

Edited July 20, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[Buppy 1,720]

The whole thing is that a silent agreement of retiring two or three years before the contract expires is no different from a silent agreement to retire six or seven years before the contract expires. It's the same thing - exploiting a loophole. I would give Kovalchuk the same chance of making it to 44 as I would give Zetterberg, Hossa, or Franzen of making it to 41.

A silent agreement is not 'exploiting a loophole', it is outright cheating. Front-loading a contract that you expect to be fulfilled is exploiting a loophole.

Historically and factoring in recent trends, 40 is on the order of 10-20 TIMES more likely than 44. You may think it's unlikely that Hank or Franzen will play out their contracts, but both cases are for more reasonable than expecting Kovy to play until 44.

Bottom line is a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Contracts to 50 or higher aren't far behind. Hell, the next 35 years might give us some major advancements in sports medicine...why not just tack on 15-20-30 extra years at $550k, get that cap hit nice and low. They can't just keep letting these deals get worse.

[Guest Heaten]

I don't see why everyone is frazzled over this. Kovy is an elite player and is probably worth $6.5 and maybe $7 at the most per year. Who cares, his contract is front loaded to give a $.5 to $1 mil discount. He's getting paid about right for what he brings to the table. Kovy will not be a HOFer. He's good, but not HOF good.

I do think the CBA should change the policy to max 10 year contracts.

I'm glad the Kovy drama is over!

[Echolalia 2,961]

Horrid idea.

Falls apart when you have a injury related retirement.

How does it fall apart? Hopefully GMs won't be stupid enough to continue 12+ year contracts with a hard cap, thus an injury related retirement shouldn't cripple a team for a decade. Overall we'll see much shorter contracts that are closer to the actual value of a player and not predicted or expected values, more exciting trade deadlines/FA opening days, and heck, if injury related retirements are still an issue we can have a league analysis case-by-case for injuries, not unlike what we have now for long-term front loaded contracts that circumvent the cap. The only difference is the league will have past evidence when determining whether a retirement was injury-related, whereas now they can only speculate on when a player might retire. Or maybe even issue a secondary cap that's designed for IR.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Echolalia

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

We have contracts like this on our team. What's the big deal here? Kovalchuk will be out of the West the rest of his career. How can anyone complain about this?

Because they signed him until he's 44 years old.

I wonder what percentage of player in this league actually play until they're that age?

The Zetterberg contract is a stretch for sure, Hossa's is pretty clear cap circumvention, but this is friggin ridiculous. 44 years old?? Why didn't they just go for it? They really could've brought his cap hit down for paying him a dollar when he turns 50.

[Yzerman191 37]

A silent agreement is not 'exploiting a loophole', it is outright cheating. Front-loading a contract that you expect to be fulfilled is exploiting a loophole.

Historically and factoring in recent trends, 40 is on the order of 10-20 TIMES more likely than 44. You may think it's unlikely that Hank or Franzen will play out their contracts, but both cases are for more reasonable than expecting Kovy to play until 44.

Bottom line is a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Contracts to 50 or higher aren't far behind. Hell, the next 35 years might give us some major advancements in sports medicine...why not just tack on 15-20-30 extra years at $550k, get that cap hit nice and low. They can't just keep letting these deals get worse.

I know what you're saying; a player reaching 44 years old is much less likely than a player reaching 40 years old. I'm not saying that's not true; I'm simply saying that, either way, both scenarios are unlikely and probably involve these silent agreements - cheating. It's happening all over the league now, including (and partially pioneered by) our own team. The Red Wings are taking advantage of the same loophole that everybody on this forum seems so outraged about.

Also, I would argue that Kovalchuk is almost certainly going to be considered for the HOF. He just turned 27 years old and has already accumulated 642 points (338 being goals) in 621 games. He's top-15 in goals per game in the history of the league, and hasn't had a sub-40 goal season since 2002-2003. He definitely has a chance of reaching the 600-goal and 1,000-point milestones by the end of his career.

EDIT: BTW, in case anybody wanted to know, 47 players have ever reached 40 years of age, and 6 players have reached 44 years of age.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Yzerman191

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

Because they signed him until he's 44 years old.

I wonder what percentage of player in this league actually play until they're that age?

The Zetterberg contract is a stretch for sure, Hossa's is pretty clear cap circumvention, but this is friggin ridiculous. 44 years old?? Why didn't they just go for it? They really could've brought his cap hit down for paying him a dollar when he turns 50.

And what if he ends up playing til he's that old? It's not unheard of. And who cares if it is cap circumvention? The hard cap is a joke and big hockey markets like us suffer for it. f*** the cap. Good for the Devils to exploit this joke of a system.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

And what if he ends up playing til he's that old? It's not unheard of. And who cares if it is cap circumvention? The hard cap is a joke and big hockey markets like us suffer for it. f*** the cap. Good for the Devils to exploit this joke of a system.

He won't.

See the post above yours. It's practically unheard of.

I'm not a fan of the cap, but if you're going to have one, have one. Otherwise get rid of it altogether. This is a ridiculous loophole they left open.

[dragonballgtz 273]

I don't see why everyone is frazzled over this. Kovy is an elite player and is probably worth $6.5 and maybe $7 at the most per year. Who cares, his contract is front loaded to give a $.5 to $1 mil discount. He's getting paid about right for what he brings to the table. Kovy will not be a HOFer. He's good, but not HOF good.

I do think the CBA should change the policy to max 10 year contracts.

I'm glad the Kovy drama is over!

The league can disapprove this deal. Which at this point since they let all those other 10+ year players going into their 40s contracts they have no merit to stop it.

Edited July 20, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[MulesWillFly93 199]

Can I just thank all you Wings fans for not being complete retards for the most part? I've heard some of the dumbest s*** today out of the mouths (or fingers, I suppose) of whiny Kings fans who can't seem to comprehend anything regarding the cap, or what a GM does, or how much your average hockey player makes. I, too, am sad that Kovy didn't sign with the Kings, but I can at least understand WHY. And people ask me why I'm a bigger Wings fan than a fan of any of the California teams...

[MotorCityMadness 388]

boy this deal is certainly a head scratcher even though Kovalchuk is a supreme talent...the terms of the deal rank right up there with that absurd contract that the Isles gave DiPietro a few years back for 15 yrs I believe

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

He won't.

See the post above yours. It's practically unheard of.

I'm not a fan of the cap, but if you're going to have one, have one. Otherwise get rid of it altogether. This is a ridiculous loophole they left open.

I think they should do what the NBA does with the luxury tax. It's one of the few things the NBA does right. It seems fair for everyone.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Tommy_Like_Wingy

[eva unit zero 271]

boy this deal is certainly a head scratcher even though Kovalchuk is a supreme talent...the terms of the deal rank right up there with that absurd contract that the Isles gave DiPietro a few years back for 15 yrs I believe

No they don't. Rick DiPietro had just finished his second full season, in 123 games played he had 55 career wins, 47 losses, 7 ties, and 6 shutouts. Dipietro makes $4.5m per season through 2021. Dipietro has played only 13 games over the past two seasons due to injuries. So far he has been paid $18m and only played two seasons of more than 8 games played. That kind of cash would make him the highest paid goalie in the NHL.

Kovalchuk has in 8 seasons, 338 goals, 304 assists, 642 points in 621 games, with one 50 goal season and three more 40-goal seasons. Kovalchuk signed up for $5.88m through 2027.

One of the players was signed entirely on potential, one was signed based entirely on performance.

[Buppy 1,720]

...

EDIT: BTW, in case anybody wanted to know, 47 players have ever reached 40 years of age, and 6 players have reached 44 years of age.

According to my figures, it's 58 players who have hit 40 (59 if you count Draper, who will be 40 before his contract expires...and with luck we'll still be playing next May 24th. But not counting a handful of players who played fewer than 10 games after 40 [with a re-exception for Brett Hull, who probably would have played a full season at 40 if not for the lockout]). 5 more (Modano, Selanne, Guerin, Lang, Weight) could hit 40 this year if they play somewhere.

Of the 10 potentially active, I'd say only Recchi has a chance of hitting 44. Maybe a couple others could make it to 42.

Of the 54 retired players, 24 played their final season at 40, 13 at 41, 6 at 42, 4 at 43, and 7 at 44 or higher.

[Buppy 1,720]

No they don't. Rick DiPietro had just finished his second full season, in 123 games played he had 55 career wins, 47 losses, 7 ties, and 6 shutouts. Dipietro makes $4.5m per season through 2021. Dipietro has played only 13 games over the past two seasons due to injuries. So far he has been paid $18m and only played two seasons of more than 8 games played. That kind of cash would make him the highest paid goalie in the NHL.

Kovalchuk has in 8 seasons, 338 goals, 304 assists, 642 points in 621 games, with one 50 goal season and three more 40-goal seasons. Kovalchuk signed up for $5.88m through 2027.

One of the players was signed entirely on potential, one was signed based entirely on performance.

When your takling about a contract that extends 8-10 years after players normally start to decline, you're banking heavily on potential.

Not saying it's as mind-boggling as DiPietro's deal. That one just can't be fathomed. Everyone knows why this deal was made.

[RinkRat82 3]

Hey folks new here long time Wings fan just moved to Ky and have no hockey buddies here lol .

This deal is Bs. there is no point in having a cap at all if you can sign players to deals like this I agree .

[xtrememachine1 795]

I know I'm in the minority, but I like deals like this. It keeps superstars from jumping around the league and it keeps the cap hit low so they can afford other players. Is it cheating? Its shady/ingenious but its not cheating. Their isn't a rule against that type of contract, so its all good. I felt pretty good when I saw Z sign that huge deal last year and knew he was going to be with the Wings for a long time, plus his cap hit won't cripple us and we'll remain competitive. The Penguins are getting killed right now because they have two $8.7 players on their team. As a result, Matt Cooke is their 5th best forward now.

If you want to have a cap, that's all fine and good, but the cost of players is rising faster than the salary cap. If teams didn't make these huge mega deals like the Kovalchuk one, you would eventually have a situation where every team in the league would consist of one or two stars and a bunch of AHLers or a team full of mediocre players.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I know I'm in the minority, but I like deals like this. It keeps superstars from jumping around the league and it keeps the cap hit low so they can afford other players. Is it cheating? Its shady/ingenious but its not cheating. Their isn't a rule against that type of contract, so its all good. I felt pretty good when I saw Z sign that huge deal last year and knew he was going to be with the Wings for a long time, plus his cap hit won't cripple us and we'll remain competitive. The Penguins are getting killed right now because they have two $8.7 players on their team. As a result, Matt Cooke is their 5th best forward now.

If you want to have a cap, that's all fine and good, but the cost of players is rising faster than the salary cap. If teams didn't make these huge mega deals like the Kovalchuk one, you would eventually have a situation where every team in the league would consist of one or two stars and a bunch of AHLers or a team full of mediocre players.

big difference though is Z's contract expires before he can collect an old age pension. what player like kovalchuk plays past the age of 40? if the NHL investigated pronger's contract, this one should be on the table in front of the board pretty soon. this deal can't be legit to the NHL brass.

next we're gonna see kessel signed until the age of 50 by burke...

[Kira 451]

I'm a little skeptical about this contract. Yeah, it's not that big of a hit, but the length of it makes me wonder.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Hey folks new here long time Wings fan just moved to Ky and have no hockey buddies here lol .

This deal is Bs. there is no point in having a cap at all if you can sign players to deals like this I agree .

Welcome aboard.

[_Kabrok_ 5]

Why doesn't every team simply signed all their under-35 players to reasonably priced, 20 year contracts and we can do away with free agency altogether. That way, no team has to worry about keeping their team together and we can suck all the off-season drama out of hockey.

Um, because then if they don't perform well you're stuck with them for their entire career.