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Kovalchuk Re-Signs with Devils


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#121 stevieisthebest

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:34 PM

SEVENTEEN YEARS?!?
... the f***?
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#122 titanium2

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:34 PM

Hahaha. Is the league really going to allow this?

#123 Buppy

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:36 PM

Why because he's smart enough to play within the rules and give his team more salary cap? As long as this rule is in place you can't really hate on a GM for using to his advantage.

Anyone saying this is dumb really needs to stop being hypocrites, look at the Z deal


Historically speaking, it is on the order of 10x as likely for a player to play until 40 than it is 44. Recent history is nearly double even that huge difference. Add to that the Wings history of having a good deal of success with aging vets, it is hardly a stretch to imagine both Hank and Mule playing out their contracts.

It's only 'playing within the rules' if Lou expects Kovy to play out the full duration of the contract. If he suspects that Kovy will retire before then, he is circumventing the salary cap. That's called cheating. I doubt someone as generally smart as Lamoriello has any illusion that Kovy will fulfill that contract. No reasonable person would expect that. Therefore, I believe he is knowlingly and deliberately cheating. Gaming a loophole is one thing, this is flat out abuse.

#124 Konnan511

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:39 PM

I love this. We complained all the time about players never playing with one time their entire careers, this is a perfect way to do so now.
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#125 Tommy_Like_Wingy

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:43 PM

We have contracts like this on our team. What's the big deal here? Kovalchuk will be out of the West the rest of his career. How can anyone complain about this?

#126 Yzerman191

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:49 PM

The problem here seems to be that people perceive there is a silent agreement between Kovalchuk and Lou for him to retire, say, around the 38 year old mark. Does anyone expect a 30 year old, injury prone Johan Franzen to play until he's 40? How about an almost-equally injury prone Zetterberg playing until he's 40? Don't you guys think there's a silent agreement between Holland and Zetterberg/Franzen to do the same thing at the tail end of their contracts?

Kovalchuk's contract is longer, but he's also a few years younger than Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa were when they signed their contracts. He's also demonstrated himself capable of playing almost every game of the season throughout his entire career. I'm not saying he's going to play out the duration of the contract, but I don't view this contract as anything different from what we're seeing elsewhere around the league.

#127 dragonballgtz

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:51 PM

Sergei Fedorov is 40 years old, Jaromir Jagr is 38. Both are not only still playing, but played at the 2010 Olympics, and may well play at the 2014 Olympics also.

Kovalchuk likely won't be one of the world's elite forwards at 44, but that does not mean he will not be a good hockey player if he chooses to play that long, which he certainly may be capable of.

Mikey when he tells his stories always said that hockey players from back in the day never really took care of themselves as athletes do now. Yeah they might not be as fast as their were, unless you were Mike Gartner type, but their bodies can take a few more years of hard athlete living.

And 6 garbage years tacked on at basically league minimum. It's such a clear attempt at circumvention they should remove Lamoriello from the HHOF. If the league doesn't step in here and deny this deal, they should just get rid of the cap altogether. I'd expect a 20+ year deal for Parise next year.

Oh yeah the Red Wings totally expect our long contract guys to fulfill their contracts. I mean they know Zetterberg's wonky back is gonna hold up and Franzen's body can handle all these knee surgeries and concussions. :rolleyes:

Edited by dragonballgtz, 19 July 2010 - 09:58 PM.


#128 Buppy

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 10:06 PM

The problem here seems to be that people perceive there is a silent agreement between Kovalchuk and Lou for him to retire, say, around the 38 year old mark. Does anyone expect a 30 year old, injury prone Johan Franzen to play until he's 40? How about an almost-equally injury prone Zetterberg playing until he's 40? Don't you guys think there's a silent agreement between Holland and Zetterberg/Franzen to do the same thing at the tail end of their contracts?

Kovalchuk's contract is longer, but he's also a few years younger than Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa were when they signed their contracts. He's also demonstrated himself capable of playing almost every game of the season throughout his entire career. I'm not saying he's going to play out the duration of the contract, but I don't view this contract as anything different from what we're seeing elsewhere around the league.



Mikey when he tells his stories always said that hockey players from back in the day never really took care of themselves as athletes do now. Yeah they might not be as fast as their were, unless you were Mike Gartner type, but their bodies can take a few more years of hard athlete living.


I don't think you quite appreciate just how unlikely it is for a player to play until they are 44. Chelios is the only one to do so in the past 30 years. 7 players in the entire history of the NHL have done it. Recchi may get there, but it's still exceedingly rare. Much more so than 40, which is becoming more common.

#129 Yzerman191

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 10:13 PM

I don't think you quite appreciate just how unlikely it is for a player to play until they are 44. Chelios is the only one to do so in the past 30 years. 7 players in the entire history of the NHL have done it. Recchi may get there, but it's still exceedingly rare. Much more so than 40, which is becoming more common.

The whole thing is that a silent agreement of retiring two or three years before the contract expires is no different from a silent agreement to retire six or seven years before the contract expires. It's the same thing - exploiting a loophole. I would give Kovalchuk the same chance of making it to 44 as I would give Zetterberg, Hossa, or Franzen of making it to 41.

#130 dragonballgtz

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 10:19 PM

I don't think you quite appreciate just how unlikely it is for a player to play until they are 44. Chelios is the only one to do so in the past 30 years. 7 players in the entire history of the NHL have done it. Recchi may get there, but it's still exceedingly rare. Much more so than 40, which is becoming more common.

I don't think you understand my post. By you saying players play at 40 is becoming more common that is because they are taking care of themselves better. Most people back in the day you hit your 30s you were almost done 10 to 12 seasons were the norm. It is because people are taking care of themselves better with all the modern ways people train/heal they can play longer.

The next step for athletes is to play into their mid to late 40s

EDIT: Do I think Z, Franzen, Pronger, Kovie, Hossa etc will play out their contracts...


Edited by dragonballgtz, 20 July 2010 - 12:21 AM.


#131 Buppy

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:00 PM

The whole thing is that a silent agreement of retiring two or three years before the contract expires is no different from a silent agreement to retire six or seven years before the contract expires. It's the same thing - exploiting a loophole. I would give Kovalchuk the same chance of making it to 44 as I would give Zetterberg, Hossa, or Franzen of making it to 41.


A silent agreement is not 'exploiting a loophole', it is outright cheating. Front-loading a contract that you expect to be fulfilled is exploiting a loophole.

Historically and factoring in recent trends, 40 is on the order of 10-20 TIMES more likely than 44. You may think it's unlikely that Hank or Franzen will play out their contracts, but both cases are for more reasonable than expecting Kovy to play until 44.

Bottom line is a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Contracts to 50 or higher aren't far behind. Hell, the next 35 years might give us some major advancements in sports medicine...why not just tack on 15-20-30 extra years at $550k, get that cap hit nice and low. They can't just keep letting these deals get worse.

#132 Heaten

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:12 PM

I don't see why everyone is frazzled over this. Kovy is an elite player and is probably worth $6.5 and maybe $7 at the most per year. Who cares, his contract is front loaded to give a $.5 to $1 mil discount. He's getting paid about right for what he brings to the table. Kovy will not be a HOFer. He's good, but not HOF good.

I do think the CBA should change the policy to max 10 year contracts.

I'm glad the Kovy drama is over! :scared:

#133 Echolalia

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:21 PM

Horrid idea.

Falls apart when you have a injury related retirement.


How does it fall apart? Hopefully GMs won't be stupid enough to continue 12+ year contracts with a hard cap, thus an injury related retirement shouldn't cripple a team for a decade. Overall we'll see much shorter contracts that are closer to the actual value of a player and not predicted or expected values, more exciting trade deadlines/FA opening days, and heck, if injury related retirements are still an issue we can have a league analysis case-by-case for injuries, not unlike what we have now for long-term front loaded contracts that circumvent the cap. The only difference is the league will have past evidence when determining whether a retirement was injury-related, whereas now they can only speculate on when a player might retire. Or maybe even issue a secondary cap that's designed for IR.

Edited by Echolalia, 19 July 2010 - 11:22 PM.


#134 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:22 PM

We have contracts like this on our team. What's the big deal here? Kovalchuk will be out of the West the rest of his career. How can anyone complain about this?

Because they signed him until he's 44 years old.

I wonder what percentage of player in this league actually play until they're that age?

The Zetterberg contract is a stretch for sure, Hossa's is pretty clear cap circumvention, but this is friggin ridiculous. 44 years old?? Why didn't they just go for it? They really could've brought his cap hit down for paying him a dollar when he turns 50.

#135 Yzerman191

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:39 PM

A silent agreement is not 'exploiting a loophole', it is outright cheating. Front-loading a contract that you expect to be fulfilled is exploiting a loophole.

Historically and factoring in recent trends, 40 is on the order of 10-20 TIMES more likely than 44. You may think it's unlikely that Hank or Franzen will play out their contracts, but both cases are for more reasonable than expecting Kovy to play until 44.

Bottom line is a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Contracts to 50 or higher aren't far behind. Hell, the next 35 years might give us some major advancements in sports medicine...why not just tack on 15-20-30 extra years at $550k, get that cap hit nice and low. They can't just keep letting these deals get worse.

I know what you're saying; a player reaching 44 years old is much less likely than a player reaching 40 years old. I'm not saying that's not true; I'm simply saying that, either way, both scenarios are unlikely and probably involve these silent agreements - cheating. It's happening all over the league now, including (and partially pioneered by) our own team. The Red Wings are taking advantage of the same loophole that everybody on this forum seems so outraged about.

Also, I would argue that Kovalchuk is almost certainly going to be considered for the HOF. He just turned 27 years old and has already accumulated 642 points (338 being goals) in 621 games. He's top-15 in goals per game in the history of the league, and hasn't had a sub-40 goal season since 2002-2003. He definitely has a chance of reaching the 600-goal and 1,000-point milestones by the end of his career.

EDIT: BTW, in case anybody wanted to know, 47 players have ever reached 40 years of age, and 6 players have reached 44 years of age.

Edited by Yzerman191, 19 July 2010 - 11:40 PM.


#136 Tommy_Like_Wingy

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:45 PM

Because they signed him until he's 44 years old.

I wonder what percentage of player in this league actually play until they're that age?

The Zetterberg contract is a stretch for sure, Hossa's is pretty clear cap circumvention, but this is friggin ridiculous. 44 years old?? Why didn't they just go for it? They really could've brought his cap hit down for paying him a dollar when he turns 50.


And what if he ends up playing til he's that old? It's not unheard of. And who cares if it is cap circumvention? The hard cap is a joke and big hockey markets like us suffer for it. f*** the cap. Good for the Devils to exploit this joke of a system.

#137 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:11 AM

And what if he ends up playing til he's that old? It's not unheard of. And who cares if it is cap circumvention? The hard cap is a joke and big hockey markets like us suffer for it. f*** the cap. Good for the Devils to exploit this joke of a system.

He won't.

See the post above yours. It's practically unheard of.

I'm not a fan of the cap, but if you're going to have one, have one. Otherwise get rid of it altogether. This is a ridiculous loophole they left open.

#138 dragonballgtz

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:38 AM

I don't see why everyone is frazzled over this. Kovy is an elite player and is probably worth $6.5 and maybe $7 at the most per year. Who cares, his contract is front loaded to give a $.5 to $1 mil discount. He's getting paid about right for what he brings to the table. Kovy will not be a HOFer. He's good, but not HOF good.

I do think the CBA should change the policy to max 10 year contracts.

I'm glad the Kovy drama is over! :scared:

The league can disapprove this deal. Which at this point since they let all those other 10+ year players going into their 40s contracts they have no merit to stop it.

Edited by dragonballgtz, 20 July 2010 - 12:41 AM.


#139 MulesWillFly93

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:39 AM

Can I just thank all you Wings fans for not being complete retards for the most part? I've heard some of the dumbest s*** today out of the mouths (or fingers, I suppose) of whiny Kings fans who can't seem to comprehend anything regarding the cap, or what a GM does, or how much your average hockey player makes. I, too, am sad that Kovy didn't sign with the Kings, but I can at least understand WHY. And people ask me why I'm a bigger Wings fan than a fan of any of the California teams...

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#140 MotorCityMadness

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:39 AM

boy this deal is certainly a head scratcher even though Kovalchuk is a supreme talent...the terms of the deal rank right up there with that absurd contract that the Isles gave DiPietro a few years back for 15 yrs I believe
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