Hawks trade Reasoner to Panthers for Jeff Taffe

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Why is that funny? The wings struggled to finish off the Coyotes and then got creamed by San Jose, and they have done exactly what with their roster that is going to put them over the top? Hudler? lol

Top 6- Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hudler, Fillpula, Cleary

Top 6- Kane, Toews, Sharp, Bolland, Hossa, Brouwer

Edge= Chicago- 4 of those guys are still in their early 20's

Top 4- Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart (Last years whipping boy)

Top 4- Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson

Edge = Hawks D is much younger, skilled and faster, but the Wings, barely, only because Lidstrom is still better then all of them combined.

Goalie- Niemi

Goalie- Howard

Edge= Niemi. Stanley Cup.

As far as depth, well, to start, any team that has Todd Bertuzzi is only going to go so far, you can make up your mind as to who is better amongst the rest, Ritola, Dowell, Skille, Meech, Lalonde, Miller, Eaves, Kindl, Kopecky, Stalberg etc.

Wow! Just WOW! I love being able to show stats and debunk everything about someone's post. talk about homerism...

Lets Compare, last season...

Zetterberg & Toews: Zetterberg 74 games, 70 points, Toews 76 games 68 points, pretty even, yet has Toews ever been considered a Selke candidate or been talk about as one of if not the best two-way player in the NHL? No.... Edge Zetterberg

Datsyuk & Kane: Not even a comparison. Kane is dynamic, but Datsyuk is magical. Plus, how many Selke's? Thanks again Patty, see you in a few years. Edge: Datsyuk

Franzen & Sharp: Since Franzen only played 27 games, this is a hard comparison, but prorate his 21 points in 20 games and he could've finish leading this team in scoring with at least 30 goals. Sharp is good, 66 points in 82 games is impressive, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Franzen turns into a monster in the playoffs. Edge: Franzen

Hudler & Hossa: With my well known hatred for Hudler, I am gonna give the edge to Hossa, but knowing what Hudler did the year prior and was only 2 points behing Hossa in that same playoff year, I am not sure which one I'd rather have. Sure I would love to have Hossa back, but it is kind of comforting that the Hawks were his second choice behind Detroit to sign long term. (damn you cap!) Edge : Hossa

Filppula & Bolland: These guys are pretty even, both missed a portion of the season, Flip played a few more games and outscored Bolland, but I will call this a draw.

Cleary & Brouwer: Again, stat wise pretty even. Again, the playoffs is where he tends to step it up. Brouwer is only 2 seasons in, so who knows if he'll develope more or stay the same. Edge: Brouwer (simply because of age and potential)

...you actually want to compare defense? Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart and Kronwall are perhaps the best top 4 defensmen in the league. Sure, hawks top 4 are younger, but more skilled? MAYBE faster, but guarantee when it comes to punishing hits and Hockey smarts, Detroit has the edge hands down. Dude, Campbell is a pylon and a waste, get over him...

Neimi & Howard. Neimi, Stanley Cup. Howard 37 wins Calder runner up. Anyone can have a lucky Cup run (Cam Ward.) Was Neimi a Conn Smythe consideration? Nope... So if we are comparing just Stanley Cup wins, then throw in Chris Osgood, 3 cups, PLUS a Conn Smythe runner up to Zetterberg. Since Neimi and Howard basically played their first full seasons last year and Howard blew him away regular season, I will call it even because Neimi won the Cup...

Sorry dude and since you've lost half of your Cup depth and Detroit gained (as much as I don't like him) Hudler, I will have to give the edge to Detroit for next year... The stats dont lie. We'll never know who would've prevailed since we didn't go head to head in the playoffs, but hopefully we will this season!

[eva unit zero 271]

Bolland? Dave Bolland?

Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.

No, I don't dislike them;

They're for the most part equal contributors offensively at this point, but Cleary is very injury prone and Flip somewhat.

Bolland is also the best defensive player of the three.

Bolland has had his own injury issues, but if I have to choose one or the other, I'm picking the healthy young guy right?

Edited July 23, 2010 by eva unit zero

[eva unit zero 271]

Wow! Just WOW! I love being able to show stats and debunk everything about someone's post. talk about homerism...

Lets Compare, last season...

Zetterberg & Toews: Zetterberg 74 games, 70 points, Toews 76 games 68 points, pretty even, yet has Toews ever been considered a Selke candidate or been talk about as one of if not the best two-way player in the NHL? No.... Edge Zetterberg

Toews was actually 4th in Selke voting last season.

Franzen & Sharp: Since Franzen only played 27 games, this is a hard comparison, but prorate his 21 points in 20 games and he could've finish leading this team in scoring with at least 30 goals. Sharp is good, 66 points in 82 games is impressive, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Franzen turns into a monster in the playoffs. Edge: Franzen

Hudler & Hossa: With my well known hatred for Hudler, I am gonna give the edge to Hossa, but knowing what Hudler did the year prior and was only 2 points behing Hossa in that same playoff year, I am not sure which one I'd rather have. Sure I would love to have Hossa back, but it is kind of comforting that the Hawks were his second choice behind Detroit to sign long term. (damn you cap!) Edge : Hossa

This I find odd. Hossa is clearly better than Sharp. He's faster, a better shooter, a better playmaker, a better defender. The general agreement on the board is that Franzen>Hudler, and I would especially expect that from you, LW. So I don't understand it unless you're slotting them as a homer to get 1-1 rather than saying Hossa is better than Franzen, and Sharp is better than Hudler.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Cleary is very injury prone and Flip somewhat.

So Filppula, who missed 26 games because of a broken wrist from a hit is more injury prone than Bolland, who missed 43 games last year?

I don't even have the words anymore, eva.

[Guest Crymson]

Bolland? Dave Bolland?

Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.

He's pretty much insensible when it comes to any players on the Wings who are not named Osgood or Hudler.

[Z and D for the C 712]

He's pretty much insensible when it comes to any players on the Wings who are not named Osgood or Hudler.

Still insensible even with them.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Still insensible even with them.

While I wouldn't be so quick to make a trade for Bolland for any of those straight up, I honestly feel Bolland is/will be the best player out of the 3. He is already the best offensively of the bunch, and has an improving defensive game, and still is extremely young. I still wouldn't trade him upfront for anyone, since I think Flip is just a hair behind Bolland and actually a better value of a cap hit + team chemistry, but just putting in my 2 cents.

[eva unit zero 271]

So Filppula, who missed 26 games because of a broken wrist from a hit is more injury prone than Bolland, who missed 43 games last year?

I don't even have the words anymore, eva.

Filppula has had consistent stretches of either missing games or playing through injury and his play suffering because of it. Bolland has one instance of injury.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Yes,Bolland was injured for a good chunk of last year,but when the playoffs came around,he was the definition of clutch.I wouldn't be totally against trading Filppula for Bolland.I still wouldn't trade Cleary for Bolland until we find out how Cleary does coming off his bad campaign last year.

[Buppy 1,720]

No, I don't dislike them;

They're for the most part equal contributors offensively at this point, but Cleary is very injury prone and Flip somewhat.

Bolland is also the best defensive player of the three.

Bolland has had his own injury issues, but if I have to choose one or the other, I'm picking the healthy young guy right?

One serious injury in five NA seasons and Flip is 'somewhat injury prone'?

If anything, I'd be worried about Bolland's herniated disk that required surgical repair, since that's the kind of injury that could bother a player for their entire career. He's only two years younger than Flip too. Again, I have to ask, are you really referring to Dave Bolland? From Chicago?

It's like saying 'Man, I really wish Flip had a slightly higher cap hit' since they're pretty equal players.

[VM1138 1,921]

Why is that funny? The wings struggled to finish off the Coyotes and then got creamed by San Jose, and they have done exactly what with their roster that is going to put them over the top? Hudler? lol

Top 6- Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hudler, Fillpula, Cleary

Top 6- Kane, Toews, Sharp, Bolland, Hossa, Brouwer

Edge= Chicago- 4 of those guys are still in their early 20's

Top 4- Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart (Last years whipping boy)

Top 4- Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson

Edge = Hawks D is much younger, skilled and faster, but the Wings, barely, only because Lidstrom is still better then all of them combined.

Goalie- Niemi

Goalie- Howard

Edge= Niemi. Stanley Cup.

As far as depth, well, to start, any team that has Todd Bertuzzi is only going to go so far, you can make up your mind as to who is better amongst the rest, Ritola, Dowell, Skille, Meech, Lalonde, Miller, Eaves, Kindl, Kopecky, Stalberg etc.

This post is so full of stupid. And I'm not a big insult-people-over-the-Internet person.

The Wings struggled against Phoenix, a tough, up-start, unpredictable team. They did NOT get creamed by the Sharks. They dominated more than half of the series but got hosed on poorly timed 5 on 3s.

And as for the Top 6, Kane, Toews, and Hossa surely is formidable. But so is Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen. I say the Wings have the edge but that's debatable. They struggled because of the team's injuries all year long.

And Niemi was very mediocre. Most people who watched the playoffs remarked that in this case the bad goalies went all the way. It was a crazy fluke, but Niemi was no all-star caliber player. Now, Howard hasn't proven anything either, so neither has an edge here. So Niemi has a Cup, it's not like he was the best player for the whole playoffs. I'd be willing to bet Niemi is a one-hit wonder like so many goalies have been lately.

And again, I'm not sure why saying a bunch of Chicago payers are in their low twenties says anything about their talent now.

[Buppy 1,720]

Filppula has had consistent stretches of either missing games or playing through injury and his play suffering because of it. Bolland has one instance of injury.

In five seasons in either the AHL or NHL, Flip has played 78, 76, 78, 80, and 55 games.

In four such years, Bolland has played 66, 55, 81, and 39 games. I don't know why he missed so many games from '06-'08, healthy scratch maybe?

But again, given the nature of Bolland's injury last year, I would certainly be more suspect of his durability.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Buppy

[Superman54 91]

Toews was actually 4th in Selke voting last season.

This I find odd. Hossa is clearly better than Sharp. He's faster, a better shooter, a better playmaker, a better defender. The general agreement on the board is that Franzen>Hudler, and I would especially expect that from you, LW. So I don't understand it unless you're slotting them as a homer to get 1-1 rather than saying Hossa is better than Franzen, and Sharp is better than Hudler.

I would choose Franzen over Hossa. He is clutch, the most clutch player on Detroit, and I've seen no one single handily dominate a game the way he can in some time. Hossa's a beaut during regular season, but Franzen is a mulebeast during the postseason, and Hoss not so much. Im happy management choose the mule over Hossa, he would be more missed then what Hossa has been.

my "biased" vote: Franzen>Hossa

Edited July 23, 2010 by Superman54

[Original-Six 254]

is it just me or did this thread get off topic?

[Sarava 55]

Bolland? Dave Bolland?

Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.

I take it you didn't see much of the Hawks playoff games, eh? I'll give you a hint. Bolland spearheaded the checking line that shut down the Sedin line, the Thornton line and then the Richards line in the SCF. Oh and he's a good penalty killer too! Here's two examples:

Edited July 23, 2010 by Sarava

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Will Chicago be using a short bus for the remaining players when they go to the White House to meet the President?

[eva unit zero 271]

I would choose Franzen over Hossa. He is clutch, the most clutch player on Detroit, and I've seen no one single handily dominate a game the way he can in some time. Hossa's a beaut during regular season, but Franzen is a mulebeast during the postseason, and Hoss not so much. Im happy management choose the mule over Hossa, he would be more missed then what Hossa has been.

my "biased" vote: Franzen>Hossa

But the thing is that LW was using regular season stats to support his arguments. So Hossa's regular season performance counts. It still doesn't answer the Franzen vs Sharp, Hudler vs Hossa question.

[Doggy 130]

There's a Hudler vs. Hossa question?

[Majsheppard 203]

$0.6 million less cap hit according to Capgeek numbers.

I know things are bad when you are making trades to gain 600k in cap space. That isn't even enough space to sign Lebda!

[Majsheppard 203]

Why is that funny? The wings struggled to finish off the Coyotes and then got creamed by San Jose, and they have done exactly what with their roster that is going to put them over the top? Hudler? lol

As far as depth, well, to start, any team that has Todd Bertuzzi is only going to go so far, you can make up your mind as to who is better amongst the rest, Ritola, Dowell, Skille, Meech, Lalonde, Miller, Eaves, Kindl, Kopecky, Stalberg etc.

Well to that first part, I could point out that the Blackhawks should have lost to Nashville right off the bat but they got saved by an inconsistant call. Hossa should have been kicked out of the game like Ovie was for his "hit" to Campbell.

His was far worse, but the player wasn't injured so he gets to stay in the game and score a GWG? I knew that series was over when that happened. The call goes the other way they might lose that game and the series would have been radically different. I doubt the would have even brought it to seven games, then who wins the cup? Phoenix was in many ways one of the best teams in the league last year. They play a gritty style and had the best goaltender in the west backing them. I feel Chicago would have had a simular time playing them.

The Sharks series... well the Shark series went the way it did because you end your comment with a decent point. Bertuzzi helped us lose that series, not because he played poorly, but because he got several bad calls against him at bad times because he takes his hand off the stick and Refs took any excuse to call one against him and the Wings. That series pissed me off more than any in my memory, save the bunk one against the Penguins, which was even worse.

Some of those youngsters might end up being really great for Chicago, but its hard to say they will be better then established guys. I will say Skille looks like the genuine article, but beyond that you just don't know if any one will translate to the NHL. Plus you lost all your role players in Chicago.

I still think Ladd and Buttfgyinugly were more important to the success of the team than you want to let on. I would have kept them over Hossa, trading him would have been the best course of action, and he wouldn't have minded as he has no loyalties.

[henrik40 76]

It seems like most people either way underestimate or way overestimate the effect the offseason will have on the Hawks. I think they will still make the playoffs and whoever said back to the cellar for the Hawks is vastly overestimating the effect. The Hawks fans who think they will be fine are crazy. Good luck when 2 guys on your top 2 lines go down. Ask us fans how that worked out for us last year. This cap situation would be so much better if they hadn't won the cup. That being said their management took a huuuuuge risk and ended up hitting the lottery, basically. Now they have to give a bunch of their winnings to their friends.

[JGould70 6]

We can laugh all we want.....if the Hawks beat our asses (not impossible) or finish higher in the standings, they'll be the ones laughing.

[Opie 308]

Does this set as bad a precedence as signing a guy only to trade him during the following season.

I mean you trade for a guy and then dump him off, they basically traded Eager, Sopel, Buff for Taffe.

But in there some where Reasoner was a Hawk, for like a minute and a half!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

As far as depth, well, to start, any team that has Todd Bertuzzi is only going to go so far.

Still living in 2004 are we? Lets see, what players on Chicagos bottom 6 are better then Bert? Haha, oh yeah, none of them. You got Toews, Kane, Hossa, Bolland, Sharp and Brouwer as your top 6 guys, all of them but Brouwer are clearly better. But no one in your bottom 6 is even close.

God I cant wait until the season starts, you Hawks fans on your high horses are some ******* annoying let me tell you. Even Ducks fans werent this bad in 2007. Your team is getting ripped apart and it's still all sunshine and lollypops, do you honestly believe you guys would've even won the Cup without Byfuglien, Versteeg and Ladd? That's 20 playoff goals gone, 7 game winners. One and done boys

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

We can laugh all we want.....if the Hawks beat our asses (not impossible) or finish higher in the standings, they'll be the ones laughing.

I doubt we'll have any problems with Chicago next season. I'll be surprised if they steal more than one game against us.

Does this set as bad a precedence as signing a guy only to trade him during the following season.

I mean you trade for a guy and then dump him off, they basically traded Eager, Sopel, Buff for Taffe.

But in there some where Reasoner was a Hawk, for like a minute and a half!

Uh they got him back in a trade. They didn't sign him and then ship him off. Huge difference, this happens all the time.

Still living in 2004 are we? Lets see, what players on Chicagos bottom 6 are better then Bert? Haha, oh yeah, none of them. You got Toews, Kane, Hossa, Bolland, Sharp and Brouwer as your top 6 guys, all of them but Brouwer are clearly better. But no one in your bottom 6 is even close.

God I cant wait until the season starts, you Hawks fans on your high horses are some ******* annoying let me tell you. Even Ducks fans werent this bad in 2007. Your team is getting ripped apart and it's still all sunshine and lollypops, do you honestly believe you guys would've even won the Cup without Byfuglien, Versteeg and Ladd? That's 20 playoff goals gone, 7 game winners. One and done boys

We've been one and done in the cap era too so far. Come on bro, you call that guy out for living in 2004 and then try to bring up our old championships from before the lockout but then go on to call them one and done?

We like to take pride in the hockey IQ Wings fans have over other fanbases but I read biased stuff like this all the time on here and it makes me wonder.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Tommy_Like_Wingy