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Hawks trade Reasoner to Panthers for Jeff Taffe


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#61 Z and D for the C

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 06:36 PM

Why not trade Hossa here for Cleary... I'll take him back at a 5.3 cap hit.


If we only had the cap space...


Edit: I know it'll never happen...but I can dream:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Mike Modano ($1.250m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Patrick Eaves ($0.750m) / Darren Helm ($1.000m) / Drew Miller ($0.650m)
Kris Draper ($1.583m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Derek Meech ($0.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Chris Osgood ($1.416m) /Jimmy Howard ($0.716m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $50,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,475,378; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $924,622

Edited by Z and D for the C, 22 July 2010 - 06:44 PM.

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#62 Crymson

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:16 PM

Why not trade Hossa here for Cleary... I'll take him back at a 5.3 cap hit.


Yet another ignorant trade proposal.

Lets say Niemi gets 2.7 mil. Here is the hawks lineup. Overall, they retain their top 6 forwards, top 4 and #7 defensemen, and their #1 goalie. (In other words, they retained their core). Burish and Eager are replaced with Dowell and Bickell. (Upgrade IMO). Lalonde is a promising prospect as well.


Err... how do they retain their top six forwards?

#63 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:16 PM

Trade Cleary for a pag of pucks,right?
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#64 Crymson

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:18 PM

Why is that funny? The wings struggled to finish off the Coyotes and then got creamed by San Jose, and they have done exactly what with their roster that is going to put them over the top? Hudler? lol

Top 6- Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hudler, Fillpula, Cleary

Top 6- Kane, Toews, Sharp, Bolland, Hossa, Brouwer

Edge= Chicago- 4 of those guys are still in their early 20's

Top 4- Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart (Last years whipping boy)

Top 4- Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson

Edge = Hawks D is much younger, skilled and faster, but the Wings, barely, only because Lidstrom is still better then all of them combined.

Goalie- Niemi
Goalie- Howard

Edge= Niemi. Stanley Cup.

As far as depth, well, to start, any team that has Todd Bertuzzi is only going to go so far, you can make up your mind as to who is better amongst the rest, Ritola, Dowell, Skille, Meech, Lalonde, Miller, Eaves, Kindl, Kopecky, Stalberg etc.


Wow, this is a dumb post. Example: Niemi is better than Howard because he has a Cup? He was very average for much of the playoffs. He had a couple of great games against San Jose, but that's about it.

I know most here are blatant homers and cant accept the fact that the hawks and Hossa have a cup, and that them losing to the wings the prior year was actually the best thing that could have happened to them, but how is keeping your teams core together and having decent prospects fill in after 3 years of having no room for them make it horrible for the hawks?

Any intelligent hockey fan can look at that teams roster and see that it can be capable of winning more then one stanley cup. Most of that core is still 3-4 years from hitting their primes.


Haha. Now I know you've got some sort of grudge.

#65 HankthaTank

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:18 PM

Here we goooo again with the Trade Clears thing....


It was like since last Friday since I heard it last. Gave LGW too much credit.
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#66 mjlegend

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:29 PM

Hawks fans. The Hawks change half of their SC winning team in one summer and think they'll still have the same chemistry.

:rolleyes:



Haha. Now I know you've got some sort of grudge.


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#67 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:03 PM

Where's Eva and his direct comparison of Detroit and Chicago that left no doubt who the edge went to?

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#68 HankthaTank

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:14 PM

Where's Eva and his direct comparison of Detroit and Chicago that left no doubt who the edge went to?

No doubt in a Matrix-like room compiling all the stats from the 80 or so years of Red Wings Hockey... or something like this-

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#69 LeftWinger

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:19 PM

This would all be so much better if they hadn't won the Cup... Hockey is a business, players are shipped from one team to another without even blinking, it's kinda like sacificing your bishop for their queen. It's all about money. Bottom Line, that's it. If they hadn't won, this wold sting them all that much more, but since they gambled, won and now are losing some key pieces, they aren't that worried. They do have a core signed to build around, if they get the Stanley Cup Neimi, then they're in good shape, but if they get the Neimi that has been throughout his career, they're in trouble. Neimi NOR Huet are Stanley Cup goalies, just played great at the right time. When Neimi returns to his normal form, the "fans" will be calling for his head. (Nah, they'll just be chanting Detroit Sucks, it's hard for them to memorize more than one phrase at a time...)

They should run a promotion in Chicao with Toews' face in a golden ring, saying we won they cup, but thanks the the cap, sorry thee..thee.thee.th...thee....that's all folks!

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#70 Buppy

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:26 PM

This would all be so much better if they hadn't won the Cup... Hockey is a business, players are shipped from one team to another without even blinking, it's kinda like sacificing your bishop for their queen. It's all about money. Bottom Line, that's it. If they hadn't won, this wold sting them all that much more, but since they gambled, won and now are losing some key pieces, they aren't that worried. They do have a core signed to build around, if they get the Stanley Cup Neimi, then they're in good shape, but if they get the Neimi that has been throughout his career, they're in trouble. Neimi NOR Huet are Stanley Cup goalies, just played great at the right time. When Neimi returns to his normal form, the "fans" will be calling for his head. (Nah, they'll just be chanting Detroit Sucks, it's hard for them to memorize more than one phrase at a time...)

They should run a promotion in Chicao with Toews' face in a golden ring, saying we won they cup, but thanks the the cap, sorry thee..thee.thee.th...thee....that's all folks!

Um... Niemi was a rookie, he only played 3 games prior to this season. Also, he played pretty much his worst hockey of the season in the playoffs. Finals at least.

#71 hooon

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:41 PM

Ok

So heres my point, the reason why Chicago dominated wasn't because of a great top 6 and top defensive pairing alone (if that were the case Tampa would have been in the cup running, not the draft lottery), they won it because they had amazing depth in their roster. Guess what Chitown losers, your team lost its greatest strength.


This. I have made the same comparison. Tampa has a great "core" too. So does Anaheim. Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan, Selanne, Niedermeyer, etc. is very comparable to Chicago's few remaining assets. Can name some other teams too. IMO, Chicago's "core" (buzz word) was average in the playoffs. They were good at times, bad at others, and alright most of the time. Toews was about the least deserving Smythe winner of all time, he had a mediocre first series and terrible final, and obviously Hossa was invisible.

What's really going to be hilarious to see next year is when Chicago gets the inevitable injuries. I don't wish injuries upon anyone/team, but I mean in regards to seeing who the heck they are going to get to fill the spots. If the Hawks next year were to have the same kind of injuries WE had last year, how could they possibly fill those roster spots? OHL players?

Not that I think this Chicago fan is going to return to this argument, but how on earth can you think that they are really ok? After 1.5 years of having an elite team they have slunk back to the middle of the pack (possibly worse :cool: )

I still think their goalie situation is in shambles. I don't care that Niemi has a cup, he is still an average goalie at best, with nearly 4GAA in the finals. We all said all year that their goaltending would cost them the cup, sure we wrong, but they won in spite of their goaltending, not because of it, and next year their tandem will be ONE of Niemi/Huet, along with Crawford or another cheap subsitute. So either way their goaltending situation promises to be WORSE than it was last year, and with a weaker defense and far less offensive production to lean back on.
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#72 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:41 PM

anyone who says Cleary/Fil is overpaid look at Bollands cap hit. You pry shut real fast


I would trade Flip or Cleary for Bolland in a flat second.
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#73 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:50 PM

And the "trade Cleary" stuff continues.Bolland is clutch,no doubt about it.But I wouldn't trade Cleary yet.This year is make or break for him in my mind.He was hurt last year,so I say give him a chane this year.If he fails to produce this year,let the rumors and suggestions begin.
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#74 Buppy

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:55 PM

I would trade Flip or Cleary for Bolland in a flat second.


Bolland? Dave Bolland?

Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.

#75 Z and D for the C

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:01 PM

you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.


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#76 LeftWinger

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:13 PM

Why is that funny? The wings struggled to finish off the Coyotes and then got creamed by San Jose, and they have done exactly what with their roster that is going to put them over the top? Hudler? lol

Top 6- Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hudler, Fillpula, Cleary

Top 6- Kane, Toews, Sharp, Bolland, Hossa, Brouwer

Edge= Chicago- 4 of those guys are still in their early 20's

Top 4- Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart (Last years whipping boy)

Top 4- Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson

Edge = Hawks D is much younger, skilled and faster, but the Wings, barely, only because Lidstrom is still better then all of them combined.

Goalie- Niemi
Goalie- Howard

Edge= Niemi. Stanley Cup.

As far as depth, well, to start, any team that has Todd Bertuzzi is only going to go so far, you can make up your mind as to who is better amongst the rest, Ritola, Dowell, Skille, Meech, Lalonde, Miller, Eaves, Kindl, Kopecky, Stalberg etc.

Wow! Just WOW! I love being able to show stats and debunk everything about someone's post. talk about homerism...

Lets Compare, last season...

Zetterberg & Toews: Zetterberg 74 games, 70 points, Toews 76 games 68 points, pretty even, yet has Toews ever been considered a Selke candidate or been talk about as one of if not the best two-way player in the NHL? No.... Edge Zetterberg

Datsyuk & Kane: Not even a comparison. Kane is dynamic, but Datsyuk is magical. Plus, how many Selke's? Thanks again Patty, see you in a few years. Edge: Datsyuk

Franzen & Sharp: Since Franzen only played 27 games, this is a hard comparison, but prorate his 21 points in 20 games and he could've finish leading this team in scoring with at least 30 goals. Sharp is good, 66 points in 82 games is impressive, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Franzen turns into a monster in the playoffs. Edge: Franzen

Hudler & Hossa: With my well known hatred for Hudler, I am gonna give the edge to Hossa, but knowing what Hudler did the year prior and was only 2 points behing Hossa in that same playoff year, I am not sure which one I'd rather have. Sure I would love to have Hossa back, but it is kind of comforting that the Hawks were his second choice behind Detroit to sign long term. (damn you cap!) Edge : Hossa

Filppula & Bolland: These guys are pretty even, both missed a portion of the season, Flip played a few more games and outscored Bolland, but I will call this a draw.

Cleary & Brouwer: Again, stat wise pretty even. Again, the playoffs is where he tends to step it up. Brouwer is only 2 seasons in, so who knows if he'll develope more or stay the same. Edge: Brouwer (simply because of age and potential)

...you actually want to compare defense? Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart and Kronwall are perhaps the best top 4 defensmen in the league. Sure, hawks top 4 are younger, but more skilled? MAYBE faster, but guarantee when it comes to punishing hits and Hockey smarts, Detroit has the edge hands down. Dude, Campbell is a pylon and a waste, get over him...

Neimi & Howard. Neimi, Stanley Cup. Howard 37 wins Calder runner up. Anyone can have a lucky Cup run (Cam Ward.) Was Neimi a Conn Smythe consideration? Nope... So if we are comparing just Stanley Cup wins, then throw in Chris Osgood, 3 cups, PLUS a Conn Smythe runner up to Zetterberg. Since Neimi and Howard basically played their first full seasons last year and Howard blew him away regular season, I will call it even because Neimi won the Cup...

Sorry dude and since you've lost half of your Cup depth and Detroit gained (as much as I don't like him) Hudler, I will have to give the edge to Detroit for next year... The stats dont lie. We'll never know who would've prevailed since we didn't go head to head in the playoffs, but hopefully we will this season!

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#77 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:20 PM

Bolland? Dave Bolland?

Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.


No, I don't dislike them;

They're for the most part equal contributors offensively at this point, but Cleary is very injury prone and Flip somewhat.

Bolland is also the best defensive player of the three.

Bolland has had his own injury issues, but if I have to choose one or the other, I'm picking the healthy young guy right?

Edited by eva unit zero, 22 July 2010 - 10:20 PM.

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#78 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:28 PM

Wow! Just WOW! I love being able to show stats and debunk everything about someone's post. talk about homerism...

Lets Compare, last season...

Zetterberg & Toews: Zetterberg 74 games, 70 points, Toews 76 games 68 points, pretty even, yet has Toews ever been considered a Selke candidate or been talk about as one of if not the best two-way player in the NHL? No.... Edge Zetterberg


Toews was actually 4th in Selke voting last season.

Franzen & Sharp: Since Franzen only played 27 games, this is a hard comparison, but prorate his 21 points in 20 games and he could've finish leading this team in scoring with at least 30 goals. Sharp is good, 66 points in 82 games is impressive, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Franzen turns into a monster in the playoffs. Edge: Franzen

Hudler & Hossa: With my well known hatred for Hudler, I am gonna give the edge to Hossa, but knowing what Hudler did the year prior and was only 2 points behing Hossa in that same playoff year, I am not sure which one I'd rather have. Sure I would love to have Hossa back, but it is kind of comforting that the Hawks were his second choice behind Detroit to sign long term. (damn you cap!) Edge : Hossa


This I find odd. Hossa is clearly better than Sharp. He's faster, a better shooter, a better playmaker, a better defender. The general agreement on the board is that Franzen>Hudler, and I would especially expect that from you, LW. So I don't understand it unless you're slotting them as a homer to get 1-1 rather than saying Hossa is better than Franzen, and Sharp is better than Hudler.
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#79 Z and D for the C

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:28 PM

Cleary is very injury prone and Flip somewhat.


:blink:

So Filppula, who missed 26 games because of a broken wrist from a hit is more injury prone than Bolland, who missed 43 games last year?

I don't even have the words anymore, eva.

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#80 Crymson

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:39 PM

Bolland? Dave Bolland?

Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but you must really dislike Cleary and Flip to be that enthusiastic about it.


He's pretty much insensible when it comes to any players on the Wings who are not named Osgood or Hudler.





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