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Blackhawks Like Repeat Chances


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#21 Heaten

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:18 PM

You know a team has no depth when Tomas Kopecky is on your 3rd line. And where do people get this idea that Turco will play for a $1.1 - $1.5 million? The guy already turned down $2 million on a relatively long term contract from a true cup contender in the east. Worse case scenario, I can see him getting a nice 1-year payout in the KHL if he doesn't get his money here in the NHL this year.

#22 Superman54

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:48 PM

I don't know if it goes on the Bonus Penalty, but if Huet is "as good as gone", his buyout will go against the cup. Has Huet been bought out yet?

#23 Sarava

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:26 AM

God only knows why I am responding to this, but here it goes. This post absolutely defies logic. How you can say with a straight face that the Hawks chance are better than the Wings is frightening and at the same time shows your lack of hockey knowledge (granted you are a Blackhawks "fan" meaning you started watching hockey within the last couple of years). No team can expect to lose what the Hawks did then just come into the season without skipping a beat. That will not happen. The Hawks will probably start off terrible until they all can gel. On top of that, you will probably lose Niemi....oh wait I forgot, he could possibly be replaced by Turco (GIVE EM THE CUP NOW!!!!) LAWL. Lets go ahead and compare teams:

Projected 2010 Chicago Blackhawks:
FORWARDS -
Patrick Kane / Jonathan Toews / Marian Hossa
Patrick Sharp / Dave Bolland / Tomas Kopecky
Troy Brouwer / Viktor Stalberg / Jack Skille
Bryan Bickell) / Jake Dowell / Jeff Taffe

DEFENSEMEN -
Brian Campbell / Duncan Keith
Brent Seabrook / Niklas Hjalmarsson
John Scott / Brian Connelly

Goaltenders -
Niemi - Huet


Now the projected 2010 Detroit Red Wings:
Forwards-
Holmstom / Datsyuk / Zetterberg
Franzen / Filppula / Bertuzzi
Hudler / Abdelkader / Cleary
Eaves / Helm / Miller

Defenseman-
Rafalski / Lidstrom
Kronwall / Stuart
Ericsson / Lilja (?)

Goaltenders-
Howard - Osgood


Just looking at the comparison of teams makes me laugh. Go ahead and look at the teams and try to tell me with a straight face that Chicago has a better chance than Detroit. But have fun jerking off to your core that is so godly. I mean, its not like Detroit not only has a better core, but better depth, and team as a whole.


Not sure where you came up with those Hawk lines. You have 2 centers on the 2nd line, 2 right wings on the first line, no center on the 3rd line, the 2 offensive defencemen paired together and the 2 stay at home defensemen paired together. I'll admit one thing. If the Hawks did use your horrid proposed lines and defense pairings, then yes they would be in a boatload of trouble. Maybe that's why you're so confused? ;)

Anyway....the big potential problem for the Hawks will be depth at forward. I never said they won't miss a beat. There's a lot of unknown here. Luckily though, the depth of forward probably won't be a terribly big issue until the playoffs. The hope for the Hawks and us Hawk fans is that a few of these guys step up in a big way throughout the season.

Also keep in mind that the Hawks will probably be able to make a trade or two to fill needs at the deadline. It will be much easier to fit guys under the cap for the last 1/4 of the season, and the Hawks certainly have the prospects and picks to get anything they need done, done.

I think the 2 guys that have a huge chance to step up big this season are Jack Skille, and even more than him, Viktor Stalberg. Stalberg skates like the wind and is a good forechecker. I really think he's going to end up on the first line with Kane and Toews before it's said and done. The Hawks tend to put third liners with those 2 guys (see Buff, Bickell and Broewer from last year). This guy is going from playing with garbage in Toronto to world class talent now...he has the potential to explode IMO.

As for losing Niemi? Yeah that will hurt if he leaves. And I think he will be gone. But he's young and it wouldn't be wise for the Hawks to invest too much in him. A lot of goaltenders start off their career hot...get figured out by the league and then they are meh. The Hawks don't need to be repeating their mistake with Huet again. I think they'll go the route the Wings have often go,...try to find sufficient and somewhat inexpensive goaltending, and put a great team in front of that goaltender.

#24 Jersey Wing

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:29 AM

I like the Blackhawks chances to repeat this year. 2006-07 to be exact

Edited by Jersey Wing, 01 August 2010 - 12:30 AM.

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#25 Sarava

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:35 AM

I don't know if it goes on the Bonus Penalty, but if Huet is "as good as gone", his buyout will go against the cup. Has Huet been bought out yet?


Rocky Wirtz indirectly addressed that at the Hawks convention today. While he didn't mention a specific player, it was obviously about Huet. He said he is willing to bury money to keep the team in the best possible shape.

Huet will be in the AHL or Europe this winter. He will not be bought out, though. The Hawks don't have the capspace to buy him out.

#26 DatsyukianDeke13

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 01:45 AM

Not sure where you came up with those Hawk lines. You have 2 centers on the 2nd line, 2 right wings on the first line, no center on the 3rd line, the 2 offensive defencemen paired together and the 2 stay at home defensemen paired together. I'll admit one thing. If the Hawks did use your horrid proposed lines and defense pairings, then yes they would be in a boatload of trouble. Maybe that's why you're so confused? ;)

Those aren't their lines. Just their roster. I never said they were their lines.

Anyway....the big potential problem for the Hawks will be depth at forward. I never said they won't miss a beat. There's a lot of unknown here. Luckily though, the depth of forward probably won't be a terribly big issue until the playoffs. The hope for the Hawks and us Hawk fans is that a few of these guys step up in a big way throughout the season.

Keep dreaming.

Also keep in mind that the Hawks will probably be able to make a trade or two to fill needs at the deadline. It will be much easier to fit guys under the cap for the last 1/4 of the season, and the Hawks certainly have the prospects and picks to get anything they need done, done.

I think the 2 guys that have a huge chance to step up big this season are Jack Skille, and even more than him, Viktor Stalberg. Stalberg skates like the wind and is a good forechecker. I really think he's going to end up on the first line with Kane and Toews before it's said and done. The Hawks tend to put third liners with those 2 guys (see Buff, Bickell and Broewer from last year). This guy is going from playing with garbage in Toronto to world class talent now...he has the potential to explode IMO.

As for losing Niemi? Yeah that will hurt if he leaves. And I think he will be gone. But he's young and it wouldn't be wise for the Hawks to invest too much in him. A lot of goaltenders start off their career hot...get figured out by the league and then they are meh. The Hawks don't need to be repeating their mistake with Huet again. I think they'll go the route the Wings have often go,...try to find sufficient and somewhat inexpensive goaltending, and put a great team in front of that goaltender.


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#27 Heaten

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 03:05 AM

Not sure where you came up with those Hawk lines. You have 2 centers on the 2nd line, 2 right wings on the first line, no center on the 3rd line, the 2 offensive defencemen paired together and the 2 stay at home defensemen paired together. I'll admit one thing. If the Hawks did use your horrid proposed lines and defense pairings, then yes they would be in a boatload of trouble. Maybe that's why you're so confused? ;)

Anyway....the big potential problem for the Hawks will be depth at forward. I never said they won't miss a beat. There's a lot of unknown here. Luckily though, the depth of forward probably won't be a terribly big issue until the playoffs. The hope for the Hawks and us Hawk fans is that a few of these guys step up in a big way throughout the season.

Also keep in mind that the Hawks will probably be able to make a trade or two to fill needs at the deadline. It will be much easier to fit guys under the cap for the last 1/4 of the season, and the Hawks certainly have the prospects and picks to get anything they need done, done.

I think the 2 guys that have a huge chance to step up big this season are Jack Skille, and even more than him, Viktor Stalberg. Stalberg skates like the wind and is a good forechecker. I really think he's going to end up on the first line with Kane and Toews before it's said and done. The Hawks tend to put third liners with those 2 guys (see Buff, Bickell and Broewer from last year). This guy is going from playing with garbage in Toronto to world class talent now...he has the potential to explode IMO.

As for losing Niemi? Yeah that will hurt if he leaves. And I think he will be gone. But he's young and it wouldn't be wise for the Hawks to invest too much in him. A lot of goaltenders start off their career hot...get figured out by the league and then they are meh. The Hawks don't need to be repeating their mistake with Huet again. I think they'll go the route the Wings have often go,...try to find sufficient and somewhat inexpensive goaltending, and put a great team in front of that goaltender.


Can't speak for Skille because I never watched him play, or just never noticed him play if he did play the games I watched. But I think you have very high expectations of Stalberg. I notice some Hawk fans like to grossly overrate a lot of their players/prospects while disregarding the importance of talent/depth your management had to firesale off (and they still may not be done).

I think losing Versteeg, Ladd, Madden and Buff (and even Barker / Sopel now BH have a really shaky 3rd pairing on D) is going to effect your team way more than you seem to realize. If BH are lucky enough to stay healthy, they should make the playoffs. But if someone goes down for a significant amount of time, all bets are off. And I highly doubt Hawks have a 100% injury free season, especially since they don't have the talented depth on both D and bottom 6 forward position.

I do find it compelling how positive Chicago Blackhawk fans are after dealing with their clubs drama and piss-poor management the past couple years. I think Red Wings fan would have ripped the management apart if they ran Red Wings org like Chi-town does.

#28 RememberStevieY

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 09:51 AM

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Watching the Chicago Blackhawks implode!According to the Chicago Daily Herald, the Hawks will need to bring in at least 9 players making under $900,000 to get under the salary cap. That is a projection based on how many roster spots they have left to fill and who is currently on the team. Of course, if they are somehow able to get rid of both Huet and Campbell (pro-tip: they can't), then they'll have a little more wiggle room
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#29 Dave82RWS

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:44 AM

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Watching the Chicago Blackhawks implode!According to the Chicago Daily Herald, the Hawks will need to bring in at least 9 players making under $900,000 to get under the salary cap. That is a projection based on how many roster spots they have left to fill and who is currently on the team. Of course, if they are somehow able to get rid of both Huet and Campbell (pro-tip: they can't), then they'll have a little more wiggle room



See lines above. They have their 4th line replaced already. (upgraded in fact) They have Stalberg, they have Scott, Hendry, and potentially Beach or Makarov. Others if they go the Turco route.

#30 Dave82RWS

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:53 AM

I think losing Versteeg, Ladd, Madden and Buff (and even Barker / Sopel now BH have a really shaky 3rd pairing on D) is going to effect your team way more than you seem to realize. If BH are lucky enough to stay healthy, they should make the playoffs. But if someone goes down for a significant amount of time, all bets are off. And I highly doubt Hawks have a 100% injury free season, especially since they don't have the talented depth on both D and bottom 6 forward position.


1-Well they obviously didnt need Barker. Who knows how Johnsson would have done if he wasnt hurt.

2-Madden they dont need anymore as the younger guys know how to win now.

3-Ladd is a nice player but replaceable. They even won a few games when he was hurt against SJ and then Philly.

4-Sopel and Hendry/Boynton was Chicagos 3rd pair D. That was weak in itself but they got by just fine i would say, no? This year the 3rd pair will be no better but may be worse. Dont know how much it will matter.

5- As far as injuries. Hossa missed 2 months, they won anyway. Bolland was out for 4 months, they won anyway, Burish was out the whole year, throw in a few others, they never really missed a beat.

I do find it compelling how positive Chicago Blackhawk fans are after dealing with their clubs drama and piss-poor management the past couple years. I think Red Wings fan would have ripped the management apart if they ran Red Wings org like Chi-town does.


Compared to what it was for so long, I would say they have a right to be positive. And the guy who screwed all the contracts up (Tallon) was let go. I would say THAT was a smart move and I would say that the past couple years they have moved in the right direction winning a cup and locking up the core instead of losing it.

I suppose we should rip Red Wings management for signing guys like Bertuzzi, Williams, May and for considering bringing back oldies like Maltby??

Edited by Dave82RWS, 01 August 2010 - 10:54 AM.


#31 chrisdetroit

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:53 AM

See lines above. They have their 4th line replaced already. (upgraded in fact) They have Stalberg, they have Scott, Hendry, and potentially Beach or Makarov. Others if they go the Turco route.



They lost most of their depth. They will not be sucessful without good depth players, plain and simple. Stop trying to convince yourself that they will be contenders. And as far as all these great prospects, everybody has "great" prospects. The difference is that the Hawks will use them on their starting rooster while teams like the Wings can leave them in the AHL.

no depth = no Cup
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#32 evil204

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:35 AM

They really screwed themselves by signing Hossa. As good as the guy is, I'd rather keep 5 good depth players than sign another superstar.

#33 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

I wouldn't expect any BH player to say "Yeah, we're going to suck next season", that would be a good way to lose a job. Despite knowing they won't repeat, they can't say it out loud. Unspoken rule.

Yep.

Probably very few people would've thought Calgary would've made the Finals in 2004, Edmonton the year after, or Anaheim in 2003, yet they all did and almost won. A bit early to basically ride teams or people off months before a season starts. While Chicago's roster is going to be different obviously, to suggest they aren't contenders is a bit of a reach.

#34 Broken 16

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 01:27 PM

Not sure where you came up with those Hawk lines. You have 2 centers on the 2nd line, 2 right wings on the first line, no center on the 3rd line, the 2 offensive defencemen paired together and the 2 stay at home defensemen paired together. I'll admit one thing. If the Hawks did use your horrid proposed lines and defense pairings, then yes they would be in a boatload of trouble. Maybe that's why you're so confused? ;)

Anyway....the big potential problem for the Hawks will be depth at forward. I never said they won't miss a beat. There's a lot of unknown here. Luckily though, the depth of forward probably won't be a terribly big issue until the playoffs. The hope for the Hawks and us Hawk fans is that a few of these guys step up in a big way throughout the season.

Also keep in mind that the Hawks will probably be able to make a trade or two to fill needs at the deadline. It will be much easier to fit guys under the cap for the last 1/4 of the season, and the Hawks certainly have the prospects and picks to get anything they need done, done.

I think the 2 guys that have a huge chance to step up big this season are Jack Skille, and even more than him, Viktor Stalberg. Stalberg skates like the wind and is a good forechecker. I really think he's going to end up on the first line with Kane and Toews before it's said and done. The Hawks tend to put third liners with those 2 guys (see Buff, Bickell and Broewer from last year). This guy is going from playing with garbage in Toronto to world class talent now...he has the potential to explode IMO.

As for losing Niemi? Yeah that will hurt if he leaves. And I think he will be gone. But he's young and it wouldn't be wise for the Hawks to invest too much in him. A lot of goaltenders start off their career hot...get figured out by the league and then they are meh. The Hawks don't need to be repeating their mistake with Huet again. I think they'll go the route the Wings have often go,...try to find sufficient and somewhat inexpensive goaltending, and put a great team in front of that goaltender.



Keep dreaming. Seriously. If you guys think that you are just gonna skate the regular season unnoticed, you are delusional. The Blackhawks have a huge target on their backs because they are the defending Stanley Cup champions. You guys act as if you are just gonna ballerina dance to the playoffs based on this so-called awesome core. It's not hard for your core to look awesome when you have crazy depth. Guess what, aside from hanging your hopes on AHL'ers to develop into the perfect role players (good luck with that), your depth is gone. Half of your team will be carrying the burden of a Cup they didn't win for the entire season. Teams are just WAITING to exploit your lack of depth.

Do you really think that every other team in the league is blind to the fact that if your team has more than one significant injury, you are probably done? All I can say is welcome to the hell that is coming back in the NHL under the current point system. Your team better be firing on all cylinders right out of the gate or you could be out of it by the end of December.

Edited by Broken 16, 01 August 2010 - 01:29 PM.


#35 Heaten

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 02:55 PM

1-Well they obviously didnt need Barker. Who knows how Johnsson would have done if he wasnt hurt.
-Now they have John Scott taking Barker and Sopel spot. Is Scott really on the same level? Don't think so.

2-Madden they dont need anymore as the younger guys know how to win now.
-Madden was one of their best PKers, top shut down forwards, and awesome at faceoffs. His contributions to the team winning seem to very underrated. You think faceoffs and PKing is overrated? He was an awesome depth guy, someone who will be missed.

3-Ladd is a nice player but replaceable. They even won a few games when he was hurt against SJ and then Philly.
-Not replaceable by an AHL 3rd line rookie. Not replaceable for the cap hit BH can afford. You are skewing logic my friend.

4-Sopel and Hendry/Boynton was Chicagos 3rd pair D. That was weak in itself but they got by just fine i would say, no? This year the 3rd pair will be no better but may be worse. Dont know how much it will matter.
You said it "This year the 3rd pair will be no better but may be worse"

5- As far as injuries. Hossa missed 2 months, they won anyway. Bolland was out for 4 months, they won anyway, Burish was out the whole year, throw in a few others, they never really missed a beat.
1a. Hossa and Bolland weren't out for the playoffs
1b. Blackhawks had depth to cover for regular season injuries. Now they are facing a 20 man roster with no extra $$ for call ups.




Compared to what it was for so long, I would say they have a right to be positive. And the guy who screwed all the contracts up (Tallon) was let go. I would say THAT was a smart move and I would say that the past couple years they have moved in the right direction winning a cup and locking up the core instead of losing it.
-BH fans said it was on Bowman that offer sheets were failed to be mailed in on time. And Bowman signed Kopecky ($200k-$400k over his worth) and Hossa for 12 years (who Bowman failed to require physical from prior to signing). Yeah, those two F-ups alone could have been catastrophic. Can't just blame Tallon, Bowman has been that brilliant either.

I suppose we should rip Red Wings management for signing guys like Bertuzzi, Williams, May and for considering bringing back oldies like Maltby??
-Seriously? Bertuzzi was a BEAST when everyone was out injured. You can thank him for keeping the Red Wings in it. Williams was out with a broken leg. Should Holland be some kind of special psychic who can predict injuries? Brad May sure did come in handy when half the team was out injured. I fail to see what Holland did wrong? Wings made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs despite fighting through an injured lineup for 3/4s of the regular season.


Your logic is flawed. See bold.

#36 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 03:43 PM

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#37 Jett1913

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 04:11 PM

it's sounds like the blackhawks fans are going through the Five Stages of Grief:

1. Denial "The Blackhawks are fine. They've still got their CORE!!"

2. Anger "COME ON! We just won the Cup! How can this happen to us?"

3. Bargaining "I don't care if we win the Cup again, as long as we beat Detroit...please?"

4. Depression "What's the point of going to games? It's not like they're gonna win the Cup again"

5. Acceptance "One and Done. At least we have Football."

#38 55fan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 04:41 PM

Somewhat of a random thought, but related nonetheless:

Suppose that they are planning to be cap-compliant by sending Huet and/or Campbell to the minors. There's a rule which states that an injured player can't be sent down.

Now this won't hurt whilst the player is on LTIR, but before they can send him down, they have to return him to the roster and be cap-compliant with him there. Then they can send him down. That would take some wiggling.

I bet Huet gets treated like he's made of glass at camp.

#39 chrisdetroit

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 04:48 PM

Yep.

Probably very few people would've thought Calgary would've made the Finals in 2004, Edmonton the year after, or Anaheim in 2003, yet they all did and almost won. A bit early to basically ride teams or people off months before a season starts. While Chicago's roster is going to be different obviously, to suggest they aren't contenders is a bit of a reach.



Anything can happen but it is unlikely that the Chicago Blackhawhs are going to get very far after losing so many of their depth players.

it's possible but not probable.

Incidently of all those teams that you mentioned, none of them won the Cup.

it's sounds like the blackhawks fans are going through the Five Stages of Grief:

1. Denial "The Blackhawks are fine. They've still got their CORE!!"

2. Anger "COME ON! We just won the Cup! How can this happen to us?"

3. Bargaining "I don't care if we win the Cup again, as long as we beat Detroit...please?"

4. Depression "What's the point of going to games? It's not like they're gonna win the Cup again"

5. Acceptance "One and Done. At least we have Football."



I think that they are all stuck in phase 1. 2-5 will come before Christmas
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#40 Sarava

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 05:58 PM

Keep dreaming. Seriously. If you guys think that you are just gonna skate the regular season unnoticed, you are delusional. The Blackhawks have a huge target on their backs because they are the defending Stanley Cup champions. You guys act as if you are just gonna ballerina dance to the playoffs based on this so-called awesome core. It's not hard for your core to look awesome when you have crazy depth. Guess what, aside from hanging your hopes on AHL'ers to develop into the perfect role players (good luck with that), your depth is gone. Half of your team will be carrying the burden of a Cup they didn't win for the entire season. Teams are just WAITING to exploit your lack of depth.

Do you really think that every other team in the league is blind to the fact that if your team has more than one significant injury, you are probably done? All I can say is welcome to the hell that is coming back in the NHL under the current point system. Your team better be firing on all cylinders right out of the gate or you could be out of it by the end of December.


Yeah the Hawks are vulnerable to injuries. Moreso than last year. That's life in professional sports. I can't really think of any team in professional sports that can withstand major injuries to important players and get by unscathed. The Wings certainly couldn't last year.

I do enjoy reading the negativity towards the Hawks from so many of you Wings fans here. The widely accepted predictions about the Hawks from LGW have been pretty much dead wrong on a consistant basis the past year. The Hawks couldn't afford to sign a big free agent last year...doh, wrong. The Hawks won't have the cap space to sign Keith, Kane and Toews...doh wrong again. The Hawks won't get past the 2nd round...doh wrong again. I love this forum.





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