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Willie Mitchell


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#101 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 08:55 AM

Can't really say until he actually signs somewhere and we can see the contract he got. The $1.25M they spent on Modano may have been the difference, but maybe not.

I don't think you really want to shape your long-term defense around a guy with a wonky head. Besides, while Mitchell is a good player, there are plenty of similar-quality Dmen that hit the free agent market every year. We won't be looking back wistfully on "the summer we missed out on Willie Mitchell." If the Wings have the money they'll get their man.

I think the combination of being in a holding pattern and the potentially $1.75 million Modano will cost absolutely is a factor in signing someone like Mitchell.

The Wings wouldn't be shaping their long term defense around Mitchell. He's 33 years old already which isn't young for a guy who plays the physical game he does. And as you point out, he's got the concussion issue. But like I said, he's a pretty good example of a player out on the market that could help the Wings D, and unless Holland pulls some shrewd moves quick, they have zero shot at him because of the Modano signing.

More than specifically Mitchell, it comes back to that a higher priority for the Wings should be shoring up their blueline than signing a Modano. He's a nice addition, but to me our questionable bottom pairing and aging top pairing (with a combined age of 77 years old when the season starts) is more of a priority for the Wings continued success.

I know I'm fixated on this issue, but when you talk about team defense with the Wings, the problem isn't the forwards. Zetterberg, Dats, Helm, Cleary, Flip, Eaves, Miller, Draper. That's a lot of defensively responsible forwards. Last season a lot of the problem was the actual defense, particularly around their own net.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 08 August 2010 - 08:58 AM.


#102 chrisdetroit

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 09:25 AM

I think the combination of being in a holding pattern and the potentially $1.75 million Modano will cost absolutely is a factor in signing someone like Mitchell.

The Wings wouldn't be shaping their long term defense around Mitchell. He's 33 years old already which isn't young for a guy who plays the physical game he does. And as you point out, he's got the concussion issue. But like I said, he's a pretty good example of a player out on the market that could help the Wings D, and unless Holland pulls some shrewd moves quick, they have zero shot at him because of the Modano signing.

More than specifically Mitchell, it comes back to that a higher priority for the Wings should be shoring up their blueline than signing a Modano. He's a nice addition, but to me our questionable bottom pairing and aging top pairing (with a combined age of 77 years old when the season starts) is more of a priority for the Wings continued success.

I know I'm fixated on this issue, but when you talk about team defense with the Wings, the problem isn't the forwards. Zetterberg, Dats, Helm, Cleary, Flip, Eaves, Miller, Draper. That's a lot of defensively responsible forwards. Last season a lot of the problem was the actual defense, particularly around their own net.


First of all Modano costs $1.25M not $1.75M. He is eligable for a 500,000 bonus but that will count against the 11-12 cap not the 10-11 cap. You are exaggerating his cap hit to make a point.

Secondly, adding up Rafalski's and Lidstrom's ages to make your point is a little bit juvenile. Lidstrom at 40 is still arguably one of the best D-men playing the game so his age is not a factor. Much of the defensive problems last year were due to poor play by Lebda and Ericsson. Lebda is gone and Ericsson was a rookie who has a tremendous upside. There is no thought of replacing Ericsson.

We don't NEED to sign another D-man this summer. Next summer if Lids retires then yes, we do but when that happens, we can use Lids money to sign a free agent.

I agree with Babs and Kenny who know a hell of a lot more about it than anybody on this forum.
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#103 Broken 16

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:50 AM

No matter who is signed, there will always be someone else that we 'could have had' instead. You could just as easily say that signing Eaves or Helm prevented us from signing Mitchell too. It's neither here nor there at this point.

#104 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:31 PM

First of all Modano costs $1.25M not $1.75M. He is eligable for a 500,000 bonus but that will count against the 11-12 cap not the 10-11 cap. You are exaggerating his cap hit to make a point.

Secondly, adding up Rafalski's and Lidstrom's ages to make your point is a little bit juvenile. Lidstrom at 40 is still arguably one of the best D-men playing the game so his age is not a factor. Much of the defensive problems last year were due to poor play by Lebda and Ericsson. Lebda is gone and Ericsson was a rookie who has a tremendous upside. There is no thought of replacing Ericsson.

We don't NEED to sign another D-man this summer. Next summer if Lids retires then yes, we do but when that happens, we can use Lids money to sign a free agent.

I agree with Babs and Kenny who know a hell of a lot more about it than anybody on this forum.

Actually I'm not exaggerating his cap hit to make point. But thanks for assuming you know what I'm thinking. :thumbup: I'm stating his probable cap hit.

Per ESPN Dallas's Richard Durrett and Capgeek.com, new Red Wings forward Mike Modano's salary cap hit is pegged at $1,750,000, with a $500,000 in performance bonuses which can be deferred to the Wings' 2011-2012 salary cap figure if necessary. According to Durrett, those bonuses do not include another $500,000 in possible playoff performance bonuses


http://blog.mlive.co..._modanos_c.html

how is adding their age juvenile? We have a 37 year old and a 40 year old on the top line. They are old. That's a fact. Lids is still one of the best of the game, but he's obviously nearing the end of his career and on the decline. Age is absolutely a factor.

Sure, if you want to pin it on Lebda, then who's taking his place that's so much better?

If you're just going to agree with Babs and Kenny all the time, then why bother coming to a forum where these issues are discussed?

No matter who is signed, there will always be someone else that we 'could have had' instead. You could just as easily say that signing Eaves or Helm prevented us from signing Mitchell too. It's neither here nor there at this point.

I don't think it's the same because they almost certainly were going to be in the lineup headed into this season. Modano was the unexpected addition to the lineup. And Holland wasn't waiting around for them to decide like he was Modano.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 08 August 2010 - 12:31 PM.


#105 Broken 16

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:51 PM

I don't think it's the same because they almost certainly were going to be in the lineup headed into this season. Modano was the unexpected addition to the lineup. And Holland wasn't waiting around for them to decide like he was Modano.



True, but goin down the road of "We could have signed him if we hadn't signed this guy!" will drive you crazy for no good reason. The differences between adding Mitchell to the lineup and Modano to the lineup probably aren't really big enough to worry about? I mean, I could see if we missed out on Mitchell because we re-signed Williams. That would suck really bad. But I really don't see the point in lamenting the possible loss of signing Mitchell when we just signed a Hall of Famer to anchor the third line. Just kinda seems like splitting hairs at this point.

It's not like Mitchell is a 'one of a kind' on defense. There will be others available when the Wings are ready. Next season or the season after.

Edited by Broken 16, 08 August 2010 - 12:53 PM.


#106 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 01:05 PM

I think the combination of being in a holding pattern and the potentially $1.75 million Modano will cost absolutely is a factor in signing someone like Mitchell.

Because the bonus money can bleed over into next season I don't think it's a consideration for Holland in terms of spending this year. In any event, it can quite possibly turn out to be the difference between Mitchell or no Mitchell, but until he signs (and signs within a range the Wings could have matched beforehand) it's not for certain.

More than specifically Mitchell, it comes back to that a higher priority for the Wings should be shoring up their blueline than signing a Modano. He's a nice addition, but to me our questionable bottom pairing and aging top pairing (with a combined age of 77 years old when the season starts) is more of a priority for the Wings continued success.

The defense may need some work, if not next season then definitely within the next 2-3, but it doesn't have to be addressed long-term this summer. They aren't missing out on some big opportunity that won't be available to them next season. Any given offseason the Wings can acquire solid second and third pairing Dmen, so long as they have the cap space.

I know I'm fixated on this issue, but when you talk about team defense with the Wings, the problem isn't the forwards. Zetterberg, Dats, Helm, Cleary, Flip, Eaves, Miller, Draper. That's a lot of defensively responsible forwards. Last season a lot of the problem was the actual defense, particularly around their own net.

I don't disagree, but you can't fix every problem. The Wings' 3rd and 4th lines were a big disappointment in the playoffs. The signing of Modano and the return of Hudler now gives them unmatchable forward depth and for a minimal investment. Perhaps, if they can't afford Mitchell, the Wings will sign a cheaper variant of the crease-clearing type, and hopefully he can teach Ericsson how to pull his head out of his ass so the Wings can get the best of both worlds (Modano, tough Dman) this offseason.
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#107 F.Michael

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:13 PM

First of all Modano costs $1.25M not $1.75M. He is eligable for a 500,000 bonus but that will count against the 11-12 cap not the 10-11 cap. You are exaggerating his cap hit to make a point.

Secondly, adding up Rafalski's and Lidstrom's ages to make your point is a little bit juvenile. Lidstrom at 40 is still arguably one of the best D-men playing the game so his age is not a factor. Much of the defensive problems last year were due to poor play by Lebda and Ericsson. Lebda is gone and Ericsson was a rookie who has a tremendous upside. There is no thought of replacing Ericsson.

We don't NEED to sign another D-man this summer. Next summer if Lids retires then yes, we do but when that happens, we can use Lids money to sign a free agent.

I agree with Babs and Kenny who know a hell of a lot more about it than anybody on this forum.

Gotta say I respectfully disagree with the bolded part...There were lapses all year long (partially due to injuries) with our defense, and IMHO Ericsson looked outta place on a good number of nights; was I the only 1 whom felt the Lebda/Lilja pairing with Ericsson in the press box a good thing?

The thought of Ericsson potentially being paired with another unproven player such as Kindl only spells more woes in our own end...As much as I'd love to see Mitchell in the Red Wings uni - I'm not holding my breath; Hnidy, McKee, and to a lesser extent Exelby can all be solid 3rd pairing guys who play with an edge, decent defensive awareness, and won't cost us much for 1, or 2 seasons.

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#108 Shaman

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:33 PM

If Detroit moves Meech and one of Miller or Ritola they will over 2 million dollars for Mitchell, now due to is injury last year I think he would take 2 million for one year and come back in 11-12 with some more value.
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#109 CMatt89

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 01:29 AM

i hope they dont sign anyone. I think they just need to shake up the pairings. Raffi and Lidstrom should be a pairing only on the PP. Kronwall and Stuart are good, but Raffi and Lids should be split. Not because they arent good together...but Ericsson needs to be with someone who is reliable...because he isn't.

#110 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 09:12 AM

Exactly right. I'm a longtime lurker but had to register to back you up. Harold is wrong and this post nailed it, simple as that. Combining ages means nothing if one player is 40 and still amazing and the other is 37 and still very good (and needlessly s***-on around here).

While I agree that Raf gets much more grief than he deserves, age is absolutely relevant. Aside from the decline in play, there's the basic fact that they will have to be replaced very soon. Lidstrom signed a one year contract. Clearly he is at or extremely near retirement, and Rafalski isn't too far behind. So in the next couple seasons our top pairing will be gone. Pointing out our top pairing has a combined age of 77 years old is relevant.

Also, Harold, you most definitely ARE exagerating Modano's salary to make your point.

How exactly am I exaggerating it? Did you read the link?

It's not completely clear exactly what Modano's cap hit is, but it sounds like it could be $1.75 mill in addition to bonuses they could slide into next year's cap. That's according to capgeek.com. They have yet to post official and confirmed details.

Is Willie Mitchell really this sought after or do we want a new toy and some FA signage drama? No one wanted h before he mentioned wanting to play here so guys, stop acting like were missing out on a superstar here. I trust Ken Holland more than I trust harold and most people here, who are wrong more often than not.

Hell, signin. Mitchell could keep us from getting a true star next year. We could play this game all day.

We don't need Willie Mitchell. He'd help but Kenny, smartly, won't break the team down to get him.

Actually there's a handful of people who've been wanting Mitchell here, back from the last time he was a free agent.

I'm not saying he's the be all end all. Actually, I said that in my previous posts if you read them. But people act as if the Modano signing occurred in a vacuum and wouldn't impact anything else. Mitchell is a good example of how signing Modano impacted their potential to sign him. It looks like it's also going to cost us either Ritola or Miller, though I'm less worried about that than our blueline.


Sadly most of those dopes are long time users and/or sponsor members who act like idiots and get away with it because of their reg date. If a noob steps on toes he gets ganged up on. It's lame. This place maybe has a 1:8 smart fan to clueless arrogant dunce ratio but you'd never know with how self assured done of them are.

Stay classy. :thumbup:

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 09 August 2010 - 09:14 AM.


#111 BoxcarFred

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 09:46 AM

There is no way this isn't ChrisDetroit. I joined a month back and have been lurking... he joined today.

If Chris is up for it Im sure we could easily prove were different people.

Not to bring you down... but any deal i see Mitchell signing would be in the range of one year, and with 15 million coming off the books even if he had a multi-year deal I dont see his cap hit being over 2 or so million, so 13 million. As for stars next season, theres some great RFA and a couple great UFAs but no players like Hossa or Kovi from what ive seen. I don't expect the wings to make a big deal next year (though I would love them to pouch one of those big RFAs).

it's only a mil or so that's keeping us from obtaining Mitchell, and no one saw Modano coming. If we end up a mil short of getting someone better than Mitchell, he will be the whipping boy. Is he really absolutely required? If Kenny really wanted him he'd find a way.

#112 Draperfan

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:41 AM

We dont need anymore Canuck rejects,we already have Bertuzzi
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#113 newfy

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:54 AM

We dont need anymore Canuck rejects,we already have Bertuzzi

Well the nucks are still trying to re-sign him so he's not really a reject, and yeah youre right we don't need an extremely smart and physical defensive defenseman :blink:

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#114 Heaten

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:58 AM

If Holland wants an aging defensemen with concussion problems, why not just re-sign Lilja and call it a day? We already know what we're getting with Lilja, he understands his role and the teams system.

Edited by Heaten, 09 August 2010 - 10:59 AM.


#115 PrairieDawg

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:00 AM

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems we're out of the running.

Willie Mitchell cuts list of teams from 4-3, Sharks, Capitals, Canucks.
6:01 PM Aug 5th via Twitter for BlackBerry®

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#116 best poster in LGW history

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:06 AM

there was no realistic chance he was coming here...nice to dream, though.

#117 Original-Six

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:12 AM

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems we're out of the running.

Willie Mitchell cuts list of teams from 4-3, Sharks, Capitals, Canucks.
6:01 PM Aug 5th via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Twitter NHLSourcesSay


/thread

#118 sputman

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:23 AM

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems we're out of the running.

Willie Mitchell cuts list of teams from 4-3, Sharks, Capitals, Canucks.
6:01 PM Aug 5th via Twitter for BlackBerry®

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oh, willie.

maybe i didn't love you
quite as often as i could have
and maybe i didn't treat you
quite as good as i should have

if i made you feel second best
girl i'm sorry i was blind
but you were always on my mind
you were always on my mind, willie..

:bye2:
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#119 mindfly

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:28 AM

Shane Hdnidy then.. right-shooter as well.

#120 redwingfan19

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:37 AM

Shane Hdnidy then.. right-shooter as well.


+1
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