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Why sign a sixth Dman?


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#1 Broken 16

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:03 PM

I don't understand why people would want the Wings to sign a sixth Dman. Janik has already proven that he can hang with the team and do well. Why not bounce Janik, Meech and Kindl in and out of the lineup until the deadline? Seems like it would be much better for the team if they gave some of the youngsters some experience and see how it's going at the deadline. Maybe we can use the money to swing some deals and get some picks. It's not like a bottom defense pairing is gonna make or break our season. Unless we get wrecked by injuries again... then god help us.

#2 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:07 PM

I don't understand why people would want the Wings to sign a sixth Dman. Janik has already proven that he can hang with the team and do well. Why not bounce Janik, Meech and Kindl in and out of the lineup until the deadline? Seems like it would be much better for the team if they gave some of the youngsters some experience and see how it's going at the deadline. Maybe we can use the money to swing some deals and get some picks. It's not like a bottom defense pairing is gonna make or break our season. Unless we get wrecked by injuries again... then god help us.


i'd like to see kindl play a full season as the 6th dman. look what happened with howard last year when he got a shot. worked out pretty well i think. i'm against the idea of picking up another dman until kinkl gets his shot on the wings.

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#3 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:07 PM

Because as Chicago has found out the hard way...you can never have too much depth.

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#4 Broken 16

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:08 PM

Because as Chicago has found out the hard way...you can never have too much depth.



K. But what is the rush? Don't you think Janik at least deserves a shot after how he came in and played last season?

#5 stevkrause

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:16 PM

I don't understand why people would want the Wings to sign a sixth Dman. Janik has already proven that he can hang with the team and do well. Why not bounce Janik, Meech and Kindl in and out of the lineup until the deadline? Seems like it would be much better for the team if they gave some of the youngsters some experience and see how it's going at the deadline. Maybe we can use the money to swing some deals and get some picks. It's not like a bottom defense pairing is gonna make or break our season. Unless we get wrecked by injuries again... then god help us.

There's a good chance that that is indeed the route Holland will go, but the problem with that is, that it's not just about adding a 6th d-man, it's about adding a steadying veteran presence on that 3rd pairing to play WITH the youngsters and be a solid, physical, stay at home guy who can specialize in a PK role (Lilja pre-concussion, or even Lilja now at the right price)

I would have no problem with Janik being given a genuine shot, but he has never been able to lock in at the NHL level and that is hardly a steadying presence for someone of the likes of Ericsson or Kindl, who may need to look over once and awhile and just be able to breath a sigh of relief, knowing that even if they make a mistake, the vet will pick them up...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

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Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#6 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:18 PM

Because as Chicago has found out the hard way...you can never have too much depth.


kindl, janik, meech, smith, kolosov, pyett (worst case)

future: fournier, almqvist, nicastro

the wings aren't short on options. i'd rather gamble on smith than pay for another depth signing.

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#7 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:25 PM

There's a good chance that that is indeed the route Holland will go, but the problem with that is, that it's not just about adding a 6th d-man, it's about adding a steadying veteran presence on that 3rd pairing to play WITH the youngsters and be a solid, physical, stay at home guy who can specialize in a PK role (Lilja pre-concussion, or even Lilja now at the right price)

I would have no problem with Janik being given a genuine shot, but he has never been able to lock in at the NHL level and that is hardly a steadying presence for someone of the likes of Ericsson or Kindl, who may need to look over once and awhile and just be able to breath a sigh of relief, knowing that even if they make a mistake, the vet will pick them up...


i've said this before...
with lids and rafalski getting older, keep them fresh. play each D line 20 mins a night and pair them up accordingly:

kronwall - stuart
lids - kindl
rafalski - ericsson

give kronwall and stuart the 1st pairing to get them ready to take over when lids and raf are gone. switch the lines once in a while to mix things up, but that should help everyone in the longrun. and when lids retires, bring in smith. the wings have a great system and development program, trust it.

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#8 Z and D for the C

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:27 PM

than pay for another depth signing.


Don't worry about it, I'll just make sure Kenny doesn't send you the bill next I talk with him.

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#9 Buppy

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:44 PM

Because as Chicago has found out the hard way...you can never have too much depth.

In a certain sense, you can. We can't afford enough to get anyone very good. We probably can't even afford anyone that's much better than Janik or Meech. Spending all our cap on what would be at best a minor upgrade doesn't really add much in the way of depth, and it would reduce our options in the future.

#10 Broken 16

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:44 PM

There's a good chance that that is indeed the route Holland will go, but the problem with that is, that it's not just about adding a 6th d-man, it's about adding a steadying veteran presence on that 3rd pairing to play WITH the youngsters and be a solid, physical, stay at home guy who can specialize in a PK role (Lilja pre-concussion, or even Lilja now at the right price)

I would have no problem with Janik being given a genuine shot, but he has never been able to lock in at the NHL level and that is hardly a steadying presence for someone of the likes of Ericsson or Kindl, who may need to look over once and awhile and just be able to breath a sigh of relief, knowing that even if they make a mistake, the vet will pick them up...



Never thought of a steadying presence for Ericsson. It would be nice to have a nasty, seasoned vet in that circumstance. To be honest though, I'm not convinced that Ericsson is ever going to be able to make that full transition into a legitimate NHL Dman. I'd almost like to see what Janik/Kindl could do with some early season ice time.

#11 stevkrause

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:07 PM

Never thought of a steadying presence for Ericsson. It would be nice to have a nasty, seasoned vet in that circumstance. To be honest though, I'm not convinced that Ericsson is ever going to be able to make that full transition into a legitimate NHL Dman. I'd almost like to see what Janik/Kindl could do with some early season ice time.

I think that is the way you kinda have to look at it...

If you look at Ericsson's production and play the last month of the season and into the playoff's alongside of Lilja instead of bouncing around on D pairings, it speaks volumes about what that presence can do for him... keep in mind, this is only his 2nd year in the NHL and really only like his 5th year even playing D - there are going to be some growing pains, but the potential is there and he is only 25, it's WAY too early to make a projection on what he will be... and, not by the same details(or background) but with the same projection, there's no way to know what Kindl will be either and BOTH have shown that they do much better with a steadying presence (and both are known to have defensive mental lapses)

Janik, although a GREAT depth guy, is what he is - a 6/7/8/fringe NHL d-man who is solid defensively and has a mean streak, but has never shown more and at 30, is pretty much what he will be for his career...

I want to see Kindl and Ericsson given every opportunity to show what they have this year, but I want them to be able to do it favorable situation, to see what they can really be - and that means paired with a solid, shut down, NHL proven d-man

Realistically, Smith SHOULD be at least 2 years away... and if things play out and everyone develops as they should, next year, when Nick hangs them up (apocalypse) either Ericsson or Kindl move into top 4 next year, while the other fills the bottom pairing and in 2 years when Rafalski hangs them up, whomever was in the number 4 spot moves into the number 2 spot, 6 spot to 4 and Smith to 6 - and if any one of them outplays the other, shift around, all the while, having Kronwall as your num 1, Stuart your 3 and your 5 being that vet or other FA... it actually plays itself out perfect this way... they just have to develop and if they don't... then we go write a huge check in FA and get someone to replace Nick next year and we start entertaining moving forward without the one who didn't develop as they should.....

just my 2 cents...

Edited by stevkrause, 03 August 2010 - 01:08 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#12 Zetts

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:09 PM

We need to because Meech will almost certainly be traded. There were some articles a while back that Holland talked with Meech and they agreed that if he can't crack the top 6, he'd be traded so he could get more playing time elsewhere. So, as he will almost certainly be traded, we need another defenseman.

Also the steadying presence thing that others already mentioned.

What I find frustrating is that we have far too many forwards yet there's issues with cap space. Ditch a forward or two, particularly if Modano signs, and we could sign a bit of a better d-man for the third pair.

Edited by Zetts, 03 August 2010 - 01:10 PM.


#13 Broken 16

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:18 PM

I think that is the way you kinda have to look at it...

If you look at Ericsson's production and play the last month of the season and into the playoff's alongside of Lilja instead of bouncing around on D pairings, it speaks volumes about what that presence can do for him... keep in mind, this is only his 2nd year in the NHL and really only like his 5th year even playing D - there are going to be some growing pains, but the potential is there and he is only 25, it's WAY too early to make a projection on what he will be... and, not by the same details(or background) but with the same projection, there's no way to know what Kindl will be either and BOTH have shown that they do much better with a steadying presence (and both are known to have defensive mental lapses)

Janik, although a GREAT depth guy, is what he is - a 6/7/8/fringe NHL d-man who is solid defensively and has a mean streak, but has never shown more and at 30, is pretty much what he will be for his career...

I want to see Kindl and Ericsson given every opportunity to show what they have this year, but I want them to be able to do it favorable situation, to see what they can really be - and that means paired with a solid, shut down, NHL proven d-man

Realistically, Smith SHOULD be at least 2 years away... and if things play out and everyone develops as they should, next year, when Nick hangs them up (apocalypse) either Ericsson or Kindl move into top 4 next year, while the other fills the bottom pairing and in 2 years when Rafalski hangs them up, whomever was in the number 4 spot moves into the number 2 spot, 6 spot to 4 and Smith to 6 - and if any one of them outplays the other, shift around, all the while, having Kronwall as your num 1, Stuart your 3 and your 5 being that vet or other FA... it actually plays itself out perfect this way... they just have to develop and if they don't... then we go write a huge check in FA and get someone to replace Nick next year and we start entertaining moving forward without the one who didn't develop as they should.....

just my 2 cents...



I can follow that line of reasoning. I guess I am judging Ericsson a little harshly on last season. Hopefully next season he will be able to get back on a good development path. Be nice if the Wings can get off to a good start and maybe Babcock can play the youngsters with Lids a little before the playoffs start. :)

I still wouldn't mind seeing Holland put that money towards dealing for some picks at the deadline.

Edited by Broken 16, 03 August 2010 - 01:19 PM.


#14 titanium2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 04:01 PM

You could've just said the usual, "No need to panic, we have Janik!"

#15 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:20 PM

I don't understand why people would want the Wings to sign a sixth Dman. Janik has already proven that he can hang with the team and do well. Why not bounce Janik, Meech and Kindl in and out of the lineup until the deadline? Seems like it would be much better for the team if they gave some of the youngsters some experience and see how it's going at the deadline. Maybe we can use the money to swing some deals and get some picks. It's not like a bottom defense pairing is gonna make or break our season. Unless we get wrecked by injuries again... then god help us.

Don't get me wrong, Janik played well in his limited time in the big club, but his sample size of judgment is really small, never having a full NHL season under his belt. I mean you're a bit down on Ericsson which is perfectly fine - he played as good as you could've expected a rookie to play in the 2008 lengthy playoff run, and wasn't quite up to snuff in his first full NHL regular season.

If the cards fall the way for Janik to be the 6th defenseman, I'd be fairly content. However, you can never have too much depth as stated above and I would love to re-sign Lilja or get a comparable stay at home defenseman if available and have Janik and co. compete for the 7th spot.

#16 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:34 PM

Don't get me wrong, Janik played well in his limited time in the big club, but his sample size of judgment is really small, never having a full NHL season under his belt.

He actually has played two full season -- in '07 and '08 with the Bolts. I can only judge from his stats, which aren't good but the Lighting also sucked those years so his +/- would be poor. He's spent the last two seasons as a call-up though, so I guess those 30 GMs weren't too impressed with his stint there.
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#17 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:35 PM

He actually has played two full season -- in '07 and '08 with the Bolts. I can only judge from his stats, which aren't good but the Lighting also sucked those years so his +/- would be poor. He's spent the last two seasons as a call-up though, so I guess those 30 GMs weren't too impressed with his stint there.

Ah. I stand corrected then.

#18 GMRwings1983

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:36 PM

Our 3rd pairing was not very good last year. Hell our 2nd pairing had trouble last year, even when healthy.

It's probably the biggest weakness on the team right now, that's why some of us wouldn't mind seeing it adressed. I like Janik, but he only played when others were hurt last year, and I didn't see any indication that the team intends to use him frequently alongside Ericsson.

A little more shot blocking and physicality can go a long way for this team on that 3rd pairing.
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#19 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:17 AM

Kindl will be a pleasant surprise this season, I'm sure of it. I wouldn't bother signing a veteran 6th defenceman as Kindl will do a fine job and after about 15-20 games we'll know that we've got someone who is more than capable of being an NHL defenceman.

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#20 zettie85

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:16 AM

i've said this before...
with lids and rafalski getting older, keep them fresh. play each D line 20 mins a night and pair them up accordingly:

kronwall - stuart
lids - kindl
rafalski - ericsson

give kronwall and stuart the 1st pairing to get them ready to take over when lids and raf are gone. switch the lines once in a while to mix things up, but that should help everyone in the longrun. and when lids retires, bring in smith. the wings have a great system and development program, trust it.


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