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Why sign a sixth Dman?


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#21 stevkrause

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 06:54 AM

Disaster waiting to happen.

Agreed - that is in no way, shape or form a steadying defensive presence... Rafalski is very good at what he is... an offensive defenseman. He is the exact opposite of what needs to be paired with E for E to flourish...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#22 F.Michael

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:32 AM

There's a good chance that that is indeed the route Holland will go, but the problem with that is, that it's not just about adding a 6th d-man, it's about adding a steadying veteran presence on that 3rd pairing to play WITH the youngsters and be a solid, physical, stay at home guy who can specialize in a PK role (Lilja pre-concussion, or even Lilja now at the right price)

I would have no problem with Janik being given a genuine shot, but he has never been able to lock in at the NHL level and that is hardly a steadying presence for someone of the likes of Ericsson or Kindl, who may need to look over once and awhile and just be able to breath a sigh of relief, knowing that even if they make a mistake, the vet will pick them up...

This.

If we're gonna see Ericsson, or Kindl on the 3rd pairing - I'd much rather have a guy out there with them that'll have several NHL seasons of experience under his belt...Nothing against Janik, but like Ericsson they both showed they could handle the NHL with limited ice time; give either 1 more minutes, and their faults may start to show more often.

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#23 rick zombo

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:56 AM

Babcock has said that he plans on reducing Lidstrom and Rafalski's minutes. To me, this means a stable 3rd pairing is in the works. This can only mean a reliable veteran will be added to the lin-up to play with Ericsson.
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#24 NomadFromKazoo

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:00 AM

I don't understand why people would want the Wings to sign a sixth Dman

Risk mitigation. Things could work out. But D was our achilles heel last year. We have talented youngsters and 6th man may be no issue at all. Then again maybe Ericsson struggles again and no one steps up and we leave Howard feeling like the target in a shooting range. And the worst last year was the turnovers, which again is even a bigger risk then rookies. It would really suck if Howard evolves and plays better, our O doesn't have the injuries, Madano brings alive third line scoring, and we spot every team a goal or two handicap in every game because of bad rookie turnovers.

BTW, I'm not arguing we should sign a vet sixth D man, I'm just saying that's the fear I have.
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#25 zettie85

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:12 AM

Lidstrom Rafalski (fewer minutes)

Kronwall Janik

Stuart Ericsson/Kindl

If they do cut down on Nick and Rafis ice time it can easily be balanced out with these other pairings. Kronwall and Janik would be interesting. Stuart is a solid vet that can be given the responsibility of settling down the younger guys. Only other option would be to break up the top pairing but I don't see that happening and I don't trust Rafi with anyone other than Nick nowadays.

Edit: As far as Meech goes, if Ericsson and Kindl come out of camp looking good I would ship Meech out of town for whatever we can get. If we run in to injury trouble, I guess then Kenny would be forced to make a move. As of now I think we are solid at the back and still need to lock in Abey and Helmer so I really could care less if we signed another D-man until we have to.

Edited by zettie85, 04 August 2010 - 08:18 AM.

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#26 stevkrause

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:16 AM

Lidstrom Rafalski (fewer minutes)

Kronwall Janik

Stuart Ericsson/Kindl

If they do cut down on Nick and Rafis ice time it can easily be balanced out with these other pairings. Kronwall and Janik would be interesting. Stuart is a solid vet that can be given the responsibility of settling down the younger guys. Only other option would be to break up the top pairing but I don't see that happening and I don't trust Rafi with anyone other than Nick nowadays.

Stuart and Rafalski played quite well together last year... if anything, I think it makes a lot more sense to go:
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Ericsson/Kindl-Lilja OR Hnidy (both can be had for 1mil or less and add EXACTLY what we need from that 6th d-man)
Ericsson/Kindl

trade/waive Meech

done and done.

That looks a LOT better and lot more even and complimentary in my mind...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#27 zettie85

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:24 AM

Stuart and Rafalski played quite well together last year... if anything, I think it makes a lot more sense to go:
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Ericsson/Kindl-Lilja OR Hnidy (both can be had for 1mil or less and add EXACTLY what we need from that 6th d-man)
Ericsson/Kindl

trade/waive Meech

done and done.

That looks a LOT better and lot more even and complimentary in my mind...


In my mind signing another player pushes us to close to that ceiling. Deadline I think would be the only time I want to be that close. Rafalski is one year older and will probably be 10x s***tier this season. That has seemed to be his rate of decline since we got him. I really hope I'm wrong though. We have about 3.7 left to sign 3 players, Modano, Abey and Helm. It just doesn't seem warranted right now. Signing Modano may well seal the deal on no defenceman signing.
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#28 stevkrause

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:33 AM

In my mind signing another player pushes us to close to that ceiling. Deadline I think would be the only time I want to be that close. Rafalski is one year older and will probably be 10x s***tier this season. That has seemed to be his rate of decline since we got him. I really hope I'm wrong though. We have about 3.7 left to sign 3 players, Modano, Abey and Helm. It just doesn't seem warranted right now. Signing Modano may well seal the deal on no defenceman signing.

You don't win cups by worrying about being too close to the cap... we have plenty of kids down in GR that can come up for CHEAP and still go back down in the event of an injury and under this scenario, we will already have 2 forwards and 1 d-man reserve and STILL have about 300k of cap space (keep in mind, any call-ups are only counted on daily cap hit, so if they're not up for the whole season, their whole salary doesn't count), so we'd essentially need at least 1 dman and 2 fowards to go down with injuries before this were even an issue and then Janik, Kolosov, Smith, Emmerton, Mursak and I.Filppula ALL have VERY low cap hits, that would not take us over the ceiling for a short stint and if a guy was going to be out longer, we'd LTIR him anyway, so it would still work out...

There's no logic or reason to NOT sure up that 6th d spot, UNLESS Kindl and/or Ericsson absolutely BLOW the coaches away in camp and damn near steal a top 4 spot... and that doesn't seem likely when growing pains are GOING to occur...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#29 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:16 AM

With Modano's rumored deal at 1.25 Million, that leaves 2.5 Mil to sign Abdelkader, Helm, and essentially another defenseman. Gotta figure Abdelkader and Helm both get ~900K, leaving just enough (In my mind) to sign a grizzly veteran defenseman such as Shane Hnidy. Keep in mind that at the very least, Meech will leave one way or the other, relieving us of his cap hit, which would leave the approximate amount desired for injury call-ups.
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#30 wingfan1991

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:20 AM

cant wait to see brendan smith in camp.. hope he does well, and joins ericsson as 5/6 pair.

#31 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:24 AM

Disaster waiting to happen.

Or Rafalski will step up playing alongside an inferior Dman like he did in the Winter Olympics.

I'm not excusing some of the mental gaffs he's had the past couple seasons, but there's a reason he was paid $6 million per to come here, and there's also a reason he doesn't look nearly as good out there...it because he's paired with one of the best defensemen of all time.
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#32 ceebs

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:54 AM

Or Rafalski will step up playing alongside an inferior Dman like he did in the Winter Olympics.

I'm not excusing some of the mental gaffs he's had the past couple seasons, but there's a reason he was paid $6 million per to come here, and there's also a reason he doesn't look nearly as good out there...it because he's paired with one of the best defensemen of all time.


LOL inferior dman. Wasn't he paired with Ryan Suter? Suter was an alternate captain and I would absolutely LOVE to have him in our top 4. Extremely underrated defenceman.

There is also a reason he is paired with one of the best defencemen of all time... and it's not because of his stellar defence.
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#33 stevkrause

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:39 AM

LOL inferior dman. Wasn't he paired with Ryan Suter? Suter was an alternate captain and I would absolutely LOVE to have him in our top 4. Extremely underrated defenceman.

There is also a reason he is paired with one of the best defencemen of all time... and it's not because of his stellar defence.

calling Ryan Suter inferior is downright laughable... with that said, Raffi DEFINITELY stepped his game up in the Olympics defensively and still maintained a high offensive level, but that is not something we can expect from him... as I already said many times on this board, Raffi is great for what he is - an offensive defenseman, but he is prone to defensive lapses and therefore, needs to be paired with a strong defensive partner to really play at his top level and once again, it comes back to why this makes the most sense:
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Ericsson/Kindl-Lilja OR Hnidy (both can be had for 1mil or less and add EXACTLY what we need from that 6th d-man)
Ericsson/Kindl

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#34 newfy

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:45 AM

Stuart and Rafalski played quite well together last year... if anything, I think it makes a lot more sense to go:
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Ericsson/Kindl-Lilja OR Hnidy (both can be had for 1mil or less and add EXACTLY what we need from that 6th d-man)
Ericsson/Kindl

trade/waive Meech

done and done.

That looks a LOT better and lot more even and complimentary in my mind...

Give me Hnidy. I think his style of game is perfect for what the wings are looking for. He has experience to mentor Ericcson and plays a style of game that E did in GR. Maybe that nastiness would rub off on Ericcson and if it did he would be a much more efficient player witht that size of his.

Ericcson would see someone on his team clearing the crease, smearing opposing forwards and sticking up for his goalie. His price would probably be around 750K and on a 1 or 2 year deal I'm completely happy with that.

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#35 mmamolo

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:50 AM

With all of the rumors surrounding Willie Mitchell I know everyone would love to see that (despite the money not really making sense). Personally, I'd like to see a guy like Jay McKee. He's cheap, block shots and has accepted his role as a 6th/7th guy. Plus he's got the experience we'd want.
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#36 F.Michael

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:51 AM

calling Ryan Suter inferior is downright laughable... with that said, Raffi DEFINITELY stepped his game up in the Olympics defensively and still maintained a high offensive level, but that is not something we can expect from him... as I already said many times on this board, Raffi is great for what he is - an offensive defenseman, but he is prone to defensive lapses and therefore, needs to be paired with a strong defensive partner to really play at his top level and once again, it comes back to why this makes the most sense:
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Ericsson/Kindl-Lilja OR Hnidy (both can be had for 1mil or less and add EXACTLY what we need from that 6th d-man)
Ericsson/Kindl

OR Jay McKee ;)

EDIT - OR Garnet Exelby.

Edited by F.Michael, 04 August 2010 - 12:01 PM.


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#37 stevkrause

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:17 PM

OR Jay McKee ;)

EDIT - OR Garnet Exelby.

I wouldn't mind either of them if better options weren't available(and if they came cheap enough) but if I had my choice at this point, I'd prefer(in this order)
1. Hnidy
2. Lilja
3. McKee
4. Exelby

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#38 brett

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 01:36 PM

kindl janik meech will prob rotate smith might get a game or 2

#39 Heaten

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 02:00 PM

Babcock has said that he plans on reducing Lidstrom and Rafalski's minutes. To me, this means a stable 3rd pairing is in the works. This can only mean a reliable veteran will be added to the lin-up to play with Ericsson.


I think Babcock has been talking about lowering Lidstrom's minutes for the past 3 years. I doubt he lowers his ice time that much if any. Lidstrom get's paid $6.2 million... if he can't handle the ice time, then he shouldn't be getting paid for it. If ice time was a concern, then Lidstrom should have signed for less so Holland could have the cap space to sign a top 4 d-man to rotate with Lids and Ralfi.

Lidstrom should play 25+ minutes per night.

That said, Ericsson can handle 27 minutes. In fact, he was a beast in that game. I think Ericsson has a future here in Detroit and is better than he gets credit for. He had some HUGE gaffs in his rookie season that didn't help his cause, but when he's on, he's a stud. He's only been playing the defense for like 5 years. I would expect growing pains. Hell, even Jiri Fischer had a lot of gaffs in his first rookie season (and even seasons after), but he had a relatively young(er) Chelios there to bail his ass out and show him the way. Don't underestimate the Big Rig!

#40 Shady Ultima

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:28 PM

I personally believe the best possible lines for the defense would be

Lidstrom - Raffi
Kronwall - Janik
Stuart - Ericcson/Kindl
Ericcson/Kindl

Stuart is our 2nd best defensive dman, and since Lids is #1, Stuart gets to babysit. It sucks to have him on the third pairing, but we could make minutes more evenly here, with a strong d player with a strong o player on each line. I also like the idea of Kronwall/Janik. Janik sucked according to stats while he was with the Bolts, but Stuart sucked when he was a Shark, and look at him now.





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