This team's still missing one thing..

[Guest blueadams]

IMO, this team's biggest problem over the last two seasons has been giving up leads late. NOT doing that used to be our trademark. I think that the problem stems from a general lack of physicality, particularly on the defensive end. Having guys like Rafalski (and to a lesser extent, I'm sorry to say, Lidstrom) with bad backs who are afraid to go into the board late in games results both extra possessions for our oppenents, and tough, risky plays for our defensemen in our own zone.

If we could somehow trade Rafalski (to make it work cap-wise) and some higher end prospect(s) for a guy like Pronger. Well, I think that we win the Stanley Cup. That guy adds absolutely everything that this team needs.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Modano-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves

Miller

Draper

(Ritola)

(Filppula)

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Kindl/(Smith)?

Meech

(Janik)

Howard

Osgood

[Wings4Life19 150]

I would say its more the fact that they thought there was no way they would give up the lead so they stoped playing the last 10 minutes of the game.

[CenterIce 83]

I would say its more the fact that they thought there was no way they would give up the lead so they stoped playing the last 10 minutes of the game.

Yep. All about playing a full 60 minutes. More mental than anything.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

IMO, this team's biggest problem over the last two seasons has been giving up leads late. NOT doing that used to be our trademark. I think that the problem stems from a general lack of physicality, particularly on the defensive end. Having guys like Rafalski (and to a lesser extent, I'm sorry to say, Lidstrom) with bad backs who are afraid to go into the board late in games results both extra possessions for our oppenents, and tough, risky plays for our defensemen in our own zone.

If we could somehow trade Rafalski (to make it work cap-wise) and some higher end prospect(s) for a guy like Pronger. Well, I think that we win the Stanley Cup. That guy adds absolutely everything that this team needs.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Modano-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves

Miller

Draper

(Ritola)

(Filppula)

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Kindl/(Smith)?

Meech

(Janik)

Howard

Osgood

f*** pronger

[Guest blueadams]

f*** pronger

im guessing that you also wouldve said 'f*** chelios' to that idea if presented it before it happened.

[Guest Heaten]

NMC

[Buppy 1,720]

We allowed 65 3rd period goals last year (6th best in the league, NJ was best with 58). Record when leading after the 2nd period was 28-2-4. Not a stellar win%, but our poor OT/SO record (11-14) probably contributed a bit to that.

Our team defense was very good last year. Maybe didn't seem like it without the offense we're used to having, but this year should help with that. Also, the possession game is a big key to our defense, and that should improve this year as well. I wouldn't say anything is missing.

Of course, you never pass up a chance to improve, and Pronger would be an improvement over Rafi, but he also has 6 more years (after this one) on his stupid contract. We do not want to be saddled with that.

[Kira 451]

There is absolutely no way on the planet that I would EVER have Chris Pronger on the Wings. How dare you even think it.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I'm not even going to pretend like the Pronger deal is inside the realm of possibility, but if Holland could theoretically exchange Rafi for Pronger the Wing's would improve more then you could ever imagine, but I guess thats kinda like saying Franzen for Ovechkin would help us too.

[Jedi 1,865]

First off, like Heaten mentioned, Rafalski has a No Movement Clause. So that's pretty much the end of the discussion there.

That being said, Pronger's contract is arguably WORSE than Rafalski's. Since Pronger's newest contract went into effect after he turned 35, then Philly (or whoever he could get traded to) would be on the hook for his cap hit if he retires before the contract is up. Not to mention Raf's cap hit is lower than Prongers (6m as opposed to 6.25m), and would not count against the cap should he retire.

Oh, and never EVER mention that Pronger "adds everything that this team needs". Douchiness is sorely NOT needed on this team.

[Shaman 713]

Why not wait till next season or the season after that when the wings will have 12 million dollars less of defensemen on the books and make a powerplay for a big name young defensemen to rebuild our defense around?

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

im guessing that you also wouldve said 'f*** chelios' to that idea if presented it before it happened.

not at all. i've always been a wings fan, and a hawks fan since the days of chelios, roenick, larmer, drunk awesome belfour... so, no i wasn't opposed to cheli coming over.

pronger just had surgery and will be even slower this coming year. if he played for the wings, he'd be under the microscope and would end up with a new NHL record for penalty minutes cause his s*** would get called finally. it also doesn't help that there's not a guy i hate more in the NHL. no thanks to pronger. his best years are behind him anyways. philly can keep him and have somewhat mediocre defence until he retires. if the wings were to go after someone, i'd wait for someone good to be RFA that's worth giving up picks for like doughty. i would also be happy with the wings going after a guy like alex pietrangelo who has tons of potential. my ideal choice for the wings is shea weber, but realistically that won't happen.

rafalski at this point in his career won't haul in what LGW wants and getting a good young dman would end up costing a good prospect and a 1st and maybe 2nd rounder to get a good guy.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I thought our big issue the past year was giving up early goals, not late ones.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Echolalia

[13dangledangle 958]

Does everyone remember how Rafi played in the Olympics this year? He still has incredible game left in him but I think he needs to be on his own line not with Lids, as well as quarterbacking his own powerplay (unit two with Modano on the other point)

[SweWings 45]

We allowed 65 3rd period goals last year (6th best in the league, NJ was best with 58). Record when leading after the 2nd period was 28-2-4. Not a stellar win%, but our poor OT/SO record (11-14) probably contributed a bit to that.

Our team defense was very good last year. Maybe didn't seem like it without the offense we're used to having, but this year should help with that. Also, the possession game is a big key to our defense, and that should improve this year as well. I wouldn't say anything is missing.

Of course, you never pass up a chance to improve, and Pronger would be an improvement over Rafi, but he also has 6 more years (after this one) on his stupid contract. We do not want to be saddled with that.

I figured the actual statistics would show something different but I was too lazy to bring them up myself.

I'm not even going to pretend like the Pronger deal is inside the realm of possibility, but if Holland could theoretically exchange Rafi for Pronger the Wing's would improve more then you could ever imagine, but I guess thats kinda like saying Franzen for Ovechkin would help us too.

Oooooh. Datsyuk and Ovechkin... :wow:

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

I think that the problem stems from a general lack of physicality, particularly on the defensive end

When I read the title I bet myself that this was yet another tired, uninsightful "we're a bunch of girls on skates who won 15 of the last 20 division titles and 4 Stanley Cups" thread.

I won.

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

Does everyone remember how Rafi played in the Olympics this year? He still has incredible game left in him but I think he needs to be on his own line not with Lids, as well as quarterbacking his own powerplay (unit two with Modano on the other point)

This is all true not to mention the tandum of liddy and raf were burnt out this season due to inj...they will do fine giving they dont have to skate 32min every night all year.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Hey man nice shot!

[toby91_ca 620]

This is all true not to mention the tandum of liddy and raf were burnt out this season due to inj...they will do fine giving they dont have to skate 32min every night all year.

I know you are just exaggerating, but not only are you way off on ice time, I don't think Lidstrom or Rafalski really played overly more than they do any other year. Neither played anywhere near 32 minutes in regulation in any single game all year, let alone every night.

Rafalski played a grand total of 1 game in which he played 30 minutes in regulation, Lidstrom had zero, he didn't eevn play a single game at 29 minutes in regulation.

Lidstrom averaged 25 minutes per night (well below what he used to play) and Rafalski averaged 24 minutes per night (about average for his years here, but below what he used to play in NJ).

[stevkrause 1,247]

I know you are just exaggerating, but not only are you way off on ice time, I don't think Lidstrom or Rafalski really played overly more than they do any other year. Neither played anywhere near 32 minutes in regulation in any single game all year, let alone every night.

Rafalski played a grand total of 1 game in which he played 30 minutes in regulation, Lidstrom had zero, he didn't eevn play a single game at 29 minutes in regulation.

Lidstrom averaged 25 minutes per night (well below what he used to play) and Rafalski averaged 24 minutes per night (about average for his years here, but below what he used to play in NJ).

Dead on - I agree they need to be played a little less, but for what they're paid, they shouldn't play MUCH less - I think it's more situational that needs to be addressed and I think Hnidy would add that to this team... disperse the minutes given on the situation, spread out the PP and have Nick play less on the PK... I have a suggestion that many may think is crazy, but I think it would be perfect... add Eaves to the point on the PP, he has a cannon of a shot, has pretty damn good puck control and has proven that he can score, given the chance...

Lidstrom-Kronwall

Stuart-Rafalski

Ericsson-Hnidy

PP1

Lidstrom-Rafalski

PP2

Kronwall-Eaves

PK1

Ericsson-Hnidy

PK2

Stuart-Kronwall/Lidstrom (rotated out depending on shifts)

when all is said and done, minute dispersal should be something like this:

Lidstom, Rafalski - 22 mins a night

Stuart, Kronwall - 20 mins a night

Ericsson, Hnidy - 18 minutes a night

Obviously, as there are more PP or PK situations in a game, this will vary, but with the proper dispersal and situational settings laid out, it shouldn't have to vary much and guys would be more effective...

Once again, some of you may think this is crazy, but I genuinely believe this would work AMAZINGLY and I think we'd see Eaves have a career year...

[newfy 695]

I know its completely impossible to make the trade but the people saying Pronger doesn't add what this team needs need to get their head checked.

I bet everyone here still wishes we still had Fischer playing, yeah that Fischer guy who crosschecked whats his name in the face. This board is ridiculous sometimes. If we home grow our own tough players we love them, but if te trade idea is ever presented its a big no. I hate to tell you guys but we have a kid coming up, Mitch Callahan, who Nill himself said he will be our Matt Cooke. We all hate Cooke but I bet this board will love Callahan because we drafted him

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

I know its completely impossible to make the trade but the people saying Pronger doesn't add what this team needs need to get their head checked.

I bet everyone here still wishes we still had Fischer playing, yeah that Fischer guy who crosschecked whats his name in the face. This board is ridiculous sometimes. If we home grow our own tough players we love them, but if te trade idea is ever presented its a big no. I hate to tell you guys but we have a kid coming up, Mitch Callahan, who Nill himself said he will be our Matt Cooke. We all hate Cooke but I bet this board will love Callahan because we drafted him

So you seriously equate Fisher to Pronger? You really believe that?

[newfy 695]

So you seriously equate Fisher to Pronger? You really believe that?

Not quite on the same level but yeah they are very similar players, both had the ability to move a puck and play a solid game while being dirty bastards at the same time. How old was Fish like 25 when he went down? He already had a suspension for breaking his stick across a guys face at that age. Obviously Pronger is dirtier but he also had a longer career to get all those accolades.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Not quite on the same level but yeah they are very similar players, both had the ability to move a puck and play a solid game while being dirty bastards at the same time. How old was Fish like 25 when he went down? He already had a suspension for breaking his stick across a guys face at that age. Obviously Pronger is dirtier but he also had a longer career to get all those accolades.

"Not on the same level" isn't a minor clarification, it's the whole point. Pronger has a career body of work as a sadist who hurts people because he can. To compare Fisher to that is nonsense.

[newfy 695]

"Not on the same level" isn't a minor clarification, it's the whole point. Pronger has a career body of work as a sadist who hurts people because he can. To compare Fisher to that is nonsense.

Pronger is also a top 3 defenseman during his time in the NHL. Both facets of Prongers game were higher then Fischers. Fischer was a tough dman who would hacj and whack infront of the net, fight, hit and give cheapshots. Had Fischer stayed in the league I think he would have ended up a fairly dirty player. But this board would love him just like we love anyone that the wings have and hate any player who is dirty or tough until the wings actually get them.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Pronger is also a top 3 defenseman during his time in the NHL. Both facets of Prongers game were higher then Fischers. Fischer was a tough dman who would hacj and whack infront of the net, fight, hit and give cheapshots. Had Fischer stayed in the league I think he would have ended up a fairly dirty player. But this board would love him just like we love anyone that the wings have and hate any player who is dirty or tough until the wings actually get them.

I never said Pronger didn't have skill. But that you project Fischer would have evolved in to the same dirty player he is and we like him even though you predict that isn't an argument for anything. There are a lot of players who push the line. To Pronger the line isn't even a speed bump. It's not just Wings fans that hate him for a reason.