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#24 should be retired? But to who?


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#41 toby91_ca

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:08 AM

No offense to the 23 people that actually voted for one of these guys, as this is my own personal opinion, but I think it would be a huge disrespect to the other guys whose numbers are hanging in the rafters for either of these guys to have the #24 retired here. I don't think there is any argument at all as to why either should be retired.

The fact that Chelios wore it for 10 years after Probert left, kinda makes me think no one would even give it a single thought to retire it on Probert's behalf. I don't think they'd ever retire Fedorv's number, but have you seen anyone else wearing it in the last 6 or 7 years?

Edited by toby91_ca, 09 August 2010 - 08:42 AM.


#42 stevkrause

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:22 AM

No offense to the 26 people that actually voted for one of these guys, as this is my own personal opinion, but I think it would be a huge disrespect to the other guys whose numbers are hanging in the rafters for either of these guys to have the #24 retired here. I don't think there is any argument at all as to why either should be retired.

The fact that Chelios wore it for 10 years after Probert left, kinda makes me think no one would even give it a single thought to retire it on Probert's behalf. I don't think they'd ever retire Fedorv's number, but have you seen anyone else wearing it in the last 6 or 7 years?

Agreed 100% - Both were great when they were here, same as with Shanny and Fedorov, but I think the Red Wing's organization is too storied and this honor should only be reserved for the TRUE elite of Red Wings history (Aurie's #6 should go back up there too, but that's a different debate for a different thread)

With all that said, the only players to don the Winged Wheel in my lifetime that belong in the rafters, are the one that just went up a couple years ago - Yzerman's #19
and when the time finally comes - Lidstrom's #5

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#43 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:25 AM

If you retire #24, then you got to retire #91, and then eventually #96 and #30.

As much as I enjoyed seeing Chelios and Fedorov play here (Probert was before I started seriously getting into hockey, started to watch with a lot more interest starting in 1996 season roughly), and much as I root for Osgood when he gets too much of a bad rap often, and as much as I love having Holmstrom be my favorite player, you're going to have to do a heck of a lot of convincing for them to have their numbers up on the rafters.

The only one with a legitimate shot of going up soon over the next few years in #5. (EDIT: In my opinion, not factual obviously)

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 09 August 2010 - 08:33 AM.


#44 Ram

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:35 AM

Jersey retirement always is a great topic that seems to come up a lot.

But yes, it's not going to happen. Love them both, but not going to happen. I'm moving on.

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#45 zombi

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:49 AM

No. Neither of those players had an impact anywhere near the 6 others that have received that honor.

Edited by zombi, 09 August 2010 - 08:49 AM.

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#46 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:06 AM

Neither have done enough to be retired *by Detroit.* A number retirement in Detroit is as hard as any other team in the league, and aside from Lidstrom there's no one on this team that I would say will be an automatic retirement at this point.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#47 heals_3000

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:51 AM

Oh, I like that idea.


Thank you, I figured that it is the least you can do to honour both players respected by the fans and organization without having to cease usage of the number until the end of time. Take the number out of circulation for X number of years, in this case, based on their jersey number. Though when you apply this to somebody like Fedorov (91 years out of circulation) it gets a bit out of hand...for a player of his caliber it's not such a bad idea.

I am a little curious about what the league intends to do down the road when retired numbers are becoming the norm or are given out like candy on Halloween (Vancouver-> Naslund, Colorado->Bourque) I think they should have a 10 year out-of-circulation honour or something. A temporary gesture to acknowledge their duties with the team as well as allowing others to use the number in the distant future too. Makes me wonder if taking Gretzky's '99' out of circulation for every team he hasn't played for, for 99 years would have been a better idea than to retire it for the rest of time

Edited by heals_3000, 09 August 2010 - 11:04 AM.

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#48 Nev

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:22 AM

Neither.

But you know what, Probert has had his retirement moment at the Joe - when #19 got retired. The response from the fans then was of far more value to him then, than retiring his number is now.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#49 55fan

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:53 PM

I like the honour roll idea. Retirement should be saved for the select few.

It would also be nice to do something to honour Probie's memory.

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#50 HankthaTank

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 01:52 PM

They will absolutely honor Probie at the opener but nothing more than that. Even a "24" patch on the jersey would be a great gesture but no way either should be retired with that #. It's Nick next and then maybe a great while before we see someone else. Hank is obviously a possibility as well.
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#51 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 04:38 PM

Its up to ilitch and after the whole 'will he won't he' season with carolina and detroit bidding for him, I really doubt Mr I will give Feds that distinction.


#5 will be double-hung as the next number in the rafters (Lidstrom and Kelly). After that it will be #30. Following that #91 has a slim chance at making it, and then we see numbers such as #13 possibly being the second double-hung number going up for Datsyuk and Slava Kozlov; of current players, #40, #55, #26, #51, and #35 could all earn jersey retirements from the current roster.
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#52 Buppy

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:57 PM

Maybe Red Kelly's number wasn't retired because he spent a significant amount of time playing for the Leafs.

All the players the Wings have retired spent either their entire career, or almost their entire career (like say Howe) playing for the Wings.

I don't see them giving it to two players who played a long time with other franchises.

We're not the divealanche.

True he played a while in Toronto, but Sawchuk also played about the same number of seasons outside Detroit. And Kelly is considered one of the all-time great defensemen. Maybe not as relatively great as Sawchuk, but still probably worthy of retirement.

...

I can't see why not. The guys NHL resume is nearly as impressive as Yzermans, and he was a huge part of the 3 cup teams.

No where near Yzerman. 200 fewer goals, 600 fewer points, never captain, disputes with management, left on bad terms, played a decent portion of his career with other teams, not one of the NHLs all-time greatest...

Fedorov's number will not, and should not, be retired here.

#5 will be double-hung as the next number in the rafters (Lidstrom and Kelly). After that it will be #30. Following that #91 has a slim chance at making it, and then we see numbers such as #13 possibly being the second double-hung number going up for Datsyuk and Slava Kozlov; of current players, #40, #55, #26, #51, and #35 could all earn jersey retirements from the current roster.

Kelly wore #4 didn't he?

Ozzie, like Fedorov, has a case, but unlikely he'll ever get that honor. He's not an all-time, hasn't played his whole career here, hasn't ever really been considered among the best of his era even. Not really anything special that says he should be given that honor.

Kozlov is laughable, as are Kronwall, Hudler, and Filppula barring any massive improvements in ability. Datsyuk is highly unlikely. Hank would have to improve greatly, and still probably need a nice and successful tenure as captain. Jury's still out on Howard, but I would say the odds are overwhelmingly against.

If any of those players were the standard for retiring numbers, we could probably find someone for every number. Fill the rafters, and make the honor meaningless.

5 will go up, 6 should (but probably won't, at least until Ilitch is gone), and maybe 4. That's it for the forseeable future.

#53 HankthaTank

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 09:00 PM

#5 will be double-hung as the next number in the rafters (Lidstrom and Kelly). After that it will be #30. Following that #91 has a slim chance at making it, and then we see numbers such as #13 possibly being the second double-hung number going up for Datsyuk and Slava Kozlov; of current players, #40, #55, #26, #51, and #35 could all earn jersey retirements from the current roster.

Eva where is the % possibility for any of these players? I am disappointed! :hehe: I can probably bet a large amount that Ozzie will not be retired as much as everyone is willing to think so. Hank is way higher up than Pav imo but who knows, both are great players.
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#54 Nic

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:26 AM

I honestly skimmed the first and third page of this thread, but I have a suggestion.

Official 'off limits' numbers, according to Wiki anyway, fall under 2 categories. Formally retired and 'out of circulation'.
This off season makes it a great time to bring up the point.

Modano wanted to 'flip' his 9 and make it a 6 but the organization brought Larry Aurie to his attention and drove his decision to the #90.
Aurie's number was never formally retired, but our organization stood by explaining to a player why it should not be taken.

Maybe our organization could just speak to guys coming to us, quietly, that we have had one historically great and tragically deceased player wear the number 24 and yet another do the number strong justice but has since retired and geuinely discourage, but not protest anyone from wearing it to honor them both?

Edited by Nic, 10 August 2010 - 01:40 AM.


#55 Jasper84

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 02:30 PM

Maybe our organization could just speak to guys coming to us, quietly, that we have had one historically great and tragically deceased player wear the number 24 and yet another do the number strong justice but has since retired and geuinely discourage, but not protest anyone from wearing it to honor them both?



Was just skimming older topics and couldn't help but comment on this. I doubt they will do that, considering they've given 24 to Salei.

#56 skyphoenix

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 03:19 PM

Can Zetterberg and Datsyuk be retired as a duo? We can hang up the number 1340 and have it say "Euro Twins". :hehe:

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#57 eva unit zero

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:30 PM

Eva where is the % possibility for any of these players? I am disappointed! :hehe: I can probably bet a large amount that Ozzie will not be retired as much as everyone is willing to think so. Hank is way higher up than Pav imo but who knows, both are great players.


Those are the players on the current roster who began their career as Wings and have had strong careers or still have the potential to have strong careers. The chances for those numbers to be retired is not great, but Jiri Hudler's #26 and Valtteri Filppula's #51 are both more deserving based on the standard Red Wing criteria than Brendan Shanahan's #14 Chris Chelios #24.
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#58 Buppy

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:02 PM

Those are the players on the current roster who began their career as Wings and have had strong careers or still have the potential to have strong careers. The chances for those numbers to be retired is not great, but Jiri Hudler's #26 and Valtteri Filppula's #51 are both more deserving based on the standard Red Wing criteria than Brendan Shanahan's #14 Chris Chelios #24.

Flip and Happy would be doing well if their career numbers can match what Shanny did just in his time here. They'd need to average 25+ goals and/or 50+ points for the next 10 years to do that.

They might, by the end of their careers, be as deserving as Shanny is now (which, btw, is not at all). Right now, they're not even close. They're a bit closer to Chelios (who again, isn't anywhere near deserving) since half his time here was as a well-over-the-hill role-player, but I think they still have a ways to go to match even that inauspicious height.

Barring a near miraculous-leap in their level of play, neither will ever approach the rafters.

#59 eva unit zero

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:12 PM

Flip and Happy would be doing well if their career numbers can match what Shanny did just in his time here. They'd need to average 25+ goals and/or 50+ points for the next 10 years to do that.

They might, by the end of their careers, be as deserving as Shanny is now (which, btw, is not at all). Right now, they're not even close. They're a bit closer to Chelios (who again, isn't anywhere near deserving) since half his time here was as a well-over-the-hill role-player, but I think they still have a ways to go to match even that inauspicious height.

Barring a near miraculous-leap in their level of play, neither will ever approach the rafters.


Yes, it's unlikely for either, but both are more likely than Shanahan.
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#60 Buppy

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:16 PM

Yes, it's unlikely for either, but both are more likely than Shanahan.

Fair enough, considering Shanny's chances are pretty close to zero. :)





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